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net

Mar 29, 2004, 8:54 PM

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spanish

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Did you know how to speak spanish when you moved down there?

PeggyS

Mar 30, 2004, 12:19 AM

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Re: [net] spanish

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Some college Spanish, which is not Mexican Spanish.

Rolly

Mar 30, 2004, 5:19 AM

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Re: [net] spanish

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No

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Jerry@Ajijic

Mar 30, 2004, 5:49 AM

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No, and although we are trying to learn, at our age it seems to go in one ear and out of the other. Even so we have not had any problems. The Mexicans are very good about trying to understand our "Spanglish" and/or sign language.

Don

Mar 30, 2004, 7:41 AM

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Re: [net] spanish

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No. But, my wife is Mexican. I take classes twice per week, but it is difficult at my age and my high school German keeps coming back and interfering in the learning process. I have found many people in the town that do speak some English.

I will keep trying, but am finding out that it is difficult "To grow grass on a rock".

Uncle Jack

Mar 30, 2004, 8:18 AM

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Re: [Don] spanish

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I've got to agree with Don. Learning a new language at our age is very difficult and I had 4 years of Spanish in high school and college. Of course, that was so long ago that they were still teaching Spanish with an Andalusian lisp. At least, I still remember a few verbs and basic sentence structure.

I try to learn at least two new nouns each day and let the verbs fall where they may. If you can at least identify what you want, you can usually get the point across. Work on pronunciation. With few exceptions, vowels are always pronounced the same and as long as you can correctly pronounce a word your chances of being understood are greatly improved even if you can't conjugate all the verbs.

Well, Hasta la bye-bye for now.

uj

TomG

Mar 30, 2004, 1:03 PM

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Re: [net] spanish

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I'm going to take exception with a few people.

I think young peoples' ability to learn easily is overrated - witness high school and college age kids. One big advantage they have is that their minds are not full of responsibilities. They skitter about over life like water bugs. Give them a good dose of metaphysical anxiety and you will slow them right down. If you are not overburdened with responsibilities you can really concentrate on a subject. Admittedly kids at the prime language learning age of 1 - 12 years can learn readily and after doing so their minds reserve the brain area used for language. But I think a big advantage they have is fearlessness - they don't give a hoot about damaging their self image with an error.

What older people lack in speed they often make up for by putting their energy right on the point. A young guy will use a dull chisel all day long and apply more force, a older guy will sharpen the chisel and whistle along.

Young or old, motivation is the key force. I met a young 20ish Mexican working class guy who had a rich American girlfriend who owned a house on the coast, boy was he anxious to use a few words of English.

I would get a $25 CD set for pronunciation and a bunch of decent Spanish self-learning grammar books (they use the same general patterns as the immersion language classes). The books are much cheaper in the USA than in Mexico. The other part of language schools is their conversation classes (rent a friend) and the cultural classes, like dance, weaving and cooking. Now if you like the food and know a little about the cooking you have the best conversation starter in Mexico.

Someone mentioned nouns, and sure, you need some. But they are easier to come up with in context than verbs. Verbs are tough, but they are central. A lot of nouns are derived from verbs and soon you can begin to guess some words based on experience. Verb - cambiar (to change) = noun - cambio. There are people who live in Mexico and take Spanish classes for years and never get conversational.

I know an older retired person who moved to a Mexican university town without many gringo and took classes intensively for 6 weeks living with a family. Then got her own apartment and soon began to taper down the classes. Her daily contact was with Mexican people, she had very little to do with expats. She did just fine and stayed in Mexico for some years. She put herself to the task and did it.

Don Moore

Mar 30, 2004, 1:58 PM

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I have lived in several foreign cultures. Even in a country like The Philippines, where English was the language of instruction in the schools and almost everyone spoke at least some English, it was a much richer experience for me knowing the local language. You can learn Spanish here or you can learn it in a Spanish speaking country. To even begin to really speak Spanish, you will need, in my estimation, at least a hundred hours of instruction, preferably with a native speaker in a small group setting of fewer than eight students. Another alternative is long periods of total immersion in Spanish in Mexico, but even then, formal instruction is a good idea. Yet another is getting tapes and working on your own. That is a tough path. Start now or start later, but start. You won't need it to survive, but it will greatly enrich your experience.
Don Moore

Judy in Ags

Mar 30, 2004, 7:10 PM

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My husband and I both speak Portuguese--he more fluently than I as we spent 10 years in Brazil as a couple and he was there almost 3 years as a single person and was totally immersed. Of course we have not spoken much Portuguese in the last 30 years. It's amazing how it stays with you, though.

Well, how does that relate to did we speak Spanish when we arrived here? Not really. My husband owned a business in Kansas City and about 50% of his customers were Spanish-speaking Mexicans. He learned a lot talking to them. I took a couple conversational Spanish courses and had a year in high school (about a hundred years ago, it seems).

Our grandson (13) spent 5 months with us since we came here one years ago and he and I went entirely through a high school Spanish I book. Every weekend he spent Saturday night and all day Sunday with Spanish-speaking only friends, plus a lot of time with the kids here at the apartment. We were surprised and pleased one day when we ran into the father of some friends at the mall one day. He told us he thought our grandson was born here in Mexico because he spoke so well.

At our one year anniversary here, we are coming along. At first we wanted to speak Portuguese all the time, but Sunday we called our friends in Brazil and we kept wanting to speak Spanish. We’re building a house so my husband has a great vocabulary in construction matters. He says by the time he learns all that lingo he won’t need it anymore. A few months ago I became comfortable enough to go into the Cannon copy store alone (without dragging hubbie along to help if I got stuck) and was able to explain a rather involved project I needed completed without too much trouble. That was kind of a milestone and since then I’ve noticed that I’m much more comfortable in starting a conversation. Our bricklayer’s son (and ayudante—helper) and I talk quite a bit. It seems that our younger friends understand us better and are better about correcting us than people our age.

Portuguese is a big help in vocabulary—usually. Sometimes the same word in both languages has very different meanings. If we don’t know a word in Spanish, we try Portuguese. If that doesn’t work, I try to explain what I mean in several words that are less precise and see if the person with whom I’m talking supplies the word when he/she sees that I need it. We have a long way to go, but, shoot we have a Mexican friend who always talks English to us and his English is pretty bad. We love him anyway. We know the Mexicans feel the same way about us. We just keep trying every day to get better. After all, it stimulates the brain!

TomG

Mar 30, 2004, 9:07 PM

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Re: [Judy in Ags] spanish

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After all, it stimulates the brain!
===========

Sounds like you guys are doing great. There is some new evidence that learning a new field later in life helps.

Georgia

Apr 7, 2004, 1:00 PM

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Yes. And, unsurprisingly, it has been a tremendous asset. I speak Spanish with an accent (not American accent) and "peninsular" vocabulary (Spain), and it confuses people because I look 100% gringa. Used to live in Spain a long, long time ago, but certain turns of phrase and words still linger. I've tried to get rid of the castillian accent, and most of the time I succeed, so I sound "foreign" but not American.

kwkuster

Apr 7, 2004, 3:30 PM

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It definitely is possible for the over-40 or 50 group. It is not hard like physics is hard, it is more like studying music than anything else. If you can't wait to practice every day, your curiosity level is high, you really like your tutor and you are not timid it can be done. You will never be the same as someone who grew up with it or learned it as a young student, but it is possible to be quite articulate after a year or two or five. If, on the other hand, the home work is an interruption in your life, you find reasons to put it off until later or decide to wait one more month or quarter to get going - forget it. Take up fishin' or playing poker.

raferguson

Apr 7, 2004, 5:00 PM

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One thing that I have noticed, teaching English as a second language, is the tremendous range of English spoken, from semi-broken to fluent. Most of the students seem to speak usable functional English. A few are reluctant to speak, but understand a lot. Since the Mexicans I teach are here to work, they have a very strong incentive to learn English to get jobs and get ahead.

That said, occasionally I have a student who has lived in the US for many years who speaks very little English. Kind of astonishing. Why does this happen? Is this a case of poor motivation? Does this individual have a poor aptitude for language? Have they always lived in a Spanish-speaking neighborhood? I don't know.

My general suggestion would be to study some Spanish in a classroom setting, to get a general grounding and overview of the language. Then get a tutor. A tutor is the most effective, but also the most expensive, way to learn a language. I have learned a couple of languages as an adult, I do a little of everything to learn the language, music, newspapers, conversation, etc. The only thing that doesn't help me are language tapes, but they might work for you. In my experience, tutors are the best way to learn.

I do think that motivation is key. You have to put in the hours, one way or the other. It took me around 5 years to get more or less fluent, but I was living in the US, and only spending a couple of weeks a year in Mexico.

Your milage may vary.

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

azul

Apr 10, 2004, 12:13 PM

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Re: [raferguson] spanish

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Don't let your age be a barrier. That is an old wives' tale. Learning continues thoughout life. Sure, it may not come as fast but it comes if you persevere. As an ESL teacher I have had students from 18 to 75. The only ones who dropped out were those who believed their age was a problem.

Some people have a gift for learning languages - lucky ones. Some people who have learned other languages can pick up a new one quickly because they know the skills. I am not one of those but even I can do it. A lightbulb went off in my head when I encountered an emergency in Paris and much to my absolute shock I could ask and understand instructions. I didn't realize I had done that until later. That gave me hope.

I thought I couldn't learn another language because I have a minor hearing problem but I was amazing how much I learned living in Mexico for a few years. It's easier in a Spanish speaking country but don't go to Barcelona. I lived there where everyone can speak Spanish but prefers Catalan - no help there. In Mexico my experience is that the people are kind and helpful. They may think I am an idiot but they graciously do not show it.

But you have to jump in. Go do the shopping ALONE. Wander around ALONE. You will surprise yourself and everyone else.

Guest jorgeepazgarcia@prodigy.com.mx

Apr 12, 2004, 11:17 AM

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Re: [net] spanish

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I know very little spanish but want to learn. I live in Lo de Villa. Where can I go and who can I talk with to learn spanish?

Thank you in advance.

Dottie

LaProfejubilada nicind@pacbell.net

Apr 15, 2004, 11:43 PM

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Re: [Guest] spanish

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I have 25 years of learning and teaching ESL and Spanish, and I swear by the best method to learn both: formal grammar learning with a good teacher while living in total immersion!
Those of you who live in Mexico need to seek out a study program where you can take those classes and contract to live with a Mexican family. If you know a family who will take you in: Go for it! They might even appreciate what you pay for room and board. If you have any doubts how much to pay, call a local language school and ask what the current charges are.
You don't really know the languages well until you can translate mentally between the two, then jump into not-translating. I give a "secret extra credit bonus" to my students: the first one to tell me that he/she dreamed in Spanish gets 25 points. You know you've arrived when you're dreaming in Spanish!
You ex-pats who are hanging around with only English-speaking companions are missing the best part of Mexico: its language and its culture. Don't think you are too old to start. If you are immersed in the language, hearing children, TV, maids, yelling neighbors, etc. you WILL learn!

PBGollaz

Apr 16, 2004, 8:45 AM

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Re: [LaProfejubilada] spanish

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Hola! Profe,

I agree wholeheartedly! When I first came to México, in 1966, it was to study at the Universidad de las Américas in Cholula, Puebla. I arrived not speaking a single word of Spanish, lured by the "bilingual-bicultural" advertising of the University. I soon learned that "bilingual" meant that there were a few classes given in English at the undergraduate level but that one really needed at least basic Spanish as a survival skill.

I began taking classes in Spanish grammar and found that the people in the little town of Cholula obligingly used all of my new phrases and vocabulary just as quickly as I learned them. Ha! What wonderful reinforcement is provided by total immersion! Within a few months I was comfortable in virtually any situation -- even speaking on the telephone and able to understand jokes told in Spanish!

Go for it, folks!

Patrick
Zapopan, Jalisco, México