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sfmacaws

Jan 13, 2007, 6:55 PM

Post #1 of 5 (2858 views)

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para que pensar en frijoles

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I understand the meaning of the words, think I can guess the meaning of the phrase, but what I would like here is an explanation of the construction or perhaps it is an idiomatic expression?

I read everything and analyze it for construction, verb use, etc - it's part of my cheap immersion program ;) I do a little of that in conversation but generally I can't remember them well enough to analyze them and conversations move too fast to do much on the fly.

Anyway, tonight we ate at our favorite arrachera place in Playa del Carmen (HC de Monterrey, 1st between 25th & 30th). The complete phrase that was on the menu next to the restaurant name:

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con sabor de esta carne, para que pensar en frijoles

There were no question marks. They don't serve beans.

What I don't understand is why para que vs por que or porque and why en frijoles vs de frijoles? Perhaps my guess on the meaning is way off, I guessed something like 'with meat this flavorful, why think about beans'

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

juditha16

Jan 13, 2007, 10:28 PM

Post #2 of 5 (2842 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] para que pensar en frijoles

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"con sabor de esta carne, para que pensar en frijoles" 'with meat this flavorful, why think about beans'
Your translation is accurate, but your question caught my attention because I found I was unable to answer my partner's questions about the difference between por and para. I pulled out a grammar book and found this explanation: "Para" is used to indicate purpose, intention, use (among other things). I think in the quote you posted, para would translate as "for what purpose" not "why". The verb pensar is always followed by the prepostion en. It's another one of those things that is not a direct translation from English: Pienso en estudiar español. I'm thinking about studying Spanish. Other verbs that generally take en + infinitve include: complacer en (to take pleasure in , to be please to) confiar en (to trust, to be confident) consentir en (to consent to) convenir en (to agree to) enforzarse en (to strive for, to try to) quedar en (to agree to) tardar en (to be late to do something)

Many verbs in Spanish are followed by specific prepositions that don't translate to English well. One that comes to mind is soñar con (to dream about). But it sounds like "to dream with". Go figure.

Hope this explantion helps. I'll leave it to Sr. Quevedo to fine tune it.
Judith

sfmacaws

Jan 13, 2007, 11:05 PM

Post #3 of 5 (2840 views)

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Re: [juditha16] para que pensar en frijoles

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Thank you Judith! That was exactly the kind of info I was looking for and I learned something, actually a few things. I didn't know about en with pensar although now that I think about it I do use it most of the time. I never got that it was always. I think I mimic phrases a lot in spanish, I hear something and I use that construction for similar things.

The 'for what purpose' translation also makes more sense. It does help me to question these odd bits I read, it puts things into order better in my brain. It also makes it more of a statement and less of a question, thus no question marks.

The other verbs got me off on another question about quedar. I'm going to start a different thread with that.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

husker

Jan 14, 2007, 9:33 AM

Post #4 of 5 (2825 views)

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Re: [juditha16] para que pensar en frijoles

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I am only a student of the language (studing by myself) I always have questions that go unanswered. With that said I have tried to "think" what was being said then "interpert" that in to english. So when I see things of this nature it makes me wonder if I am on the right track. So I believe that:

Pienso en estudiar español. I'm thinking about studying Spanish

would be said

yo pensando en estudiando espanol o pensando en estudiando espanol

am I way off in my thinking?

juditha16

Jan 14, 2007, 10:50 AM

Post #5 of 5 (2819 views)

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Re: [husker] para que pensar en frijoles

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Well, you're a little off in your thinking. The first thing to remember is that Spanish is not a direct translation of English. That idea is hard to get used to.

A rule that makes our lives easier when attempting to use Spanish, is that the verb that follows a preposition is always used in the infinitive (you don't have to try to conjugate it) and if there are two verbs in a row, the second one is almost always in the infinitive (unless you're using a compound tense: i.e. Estoy pensando -I am thinking; He pensado - I have thought).

In Spanish, the present progressive form of the verb (estar + present participle [the "ing" ending in English] (Estoy pensando, está hablando, etc.) is not used nearly as often as in English. It is basically used to stress that the action is going on right now: No me molesta, estoy estudiando. --Don't bother me, I'm [busy] studying.

Yo pienso can mean "I think" or "I am thinking". This is the present indicative (simple present tense.) There was recently some discussion about this on this board.

If you're studying on your own, a great program that is really helping my partner to get a handle on Spanish conversation, is www.shortcuttospanish.com The first few lessons are free. If you like it you pay to download more. Give it a try. I think it's a really good program.

And keep trying. Statistics say it takes about 700 hours to learn a language well enough to get by.

Buena suerte,
Judith