Forums > Specific Focus > Learning Spanish

bunny

May 13, 2006, 4:04 PM

Post #1 of 18 (5628 views)

Shortcut

cuando hablar de tu o usted?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Coming from a U.S. culture where these distinctions are not (so explicitly) made, I am almost always tentative about which form to use. "Tu" can seem friendly, outgoing . . . or patronizing. "Usted" can seem respectful . . . or haughty and distancing.

My closest Mexican friend says "tu" is always OK, if I want to project friendliness. My (Mexican) Baden Powell Spanish teacher suggested that with many people, especially less cosmopolitan mexicanos, "tu" would be seen as presumptuous, or an indication that I have no sense of boundaries or distinctions. (She implied that if you haven't seen the person naked, the safe thing is to stick with "usted.") Other people say--you're a gringa, nobody expects you to get anything right! But in many situations (in tiendas, and with service people, especially) I find myself in a panic about conjugating every verb.

In the absence of a cue from the other person--who may be tentative about how to interact with me, a middle-aged gringa (that is, a person who is neither here nor there)--any guidelines that others can suggest?

I am grateful that this forum is active again; the latest posts do seem less intimidating to those of us who are sincerely interested in learning Spanish, but sincerely struggling. In the past, I have always worried about asking questions that may seem simplistic and backward to those of you who have so admirably mastered the language of this culture!

THanks,
Gretchen

quevedo

May 13, 2006, 4:48 PM

Post #2 of 18 (5620 views)

Shortcut

Re: [bunny] Lo que yo hago - This is what I do

Can't Post |

1) I always start with usted when my interlocutor is not known to me. (Unless I am addressing a young child, for example.)

2) After a while I ask, ¿Nos hablamos de tú? (I never ask for this if the person I'm addressing is clearly not to be treated as a tú. An old person of high status: Mr. David McLaughlin, for example.)

3) The answer to the above will not usually come as a yes or no; the person in question will address me back as usted or tú. There you go.

4) If someone asks me for tú I always say, yes.

Saludos de tú y de usted,

Quevedo

doogie

May 13, 2006, 4:51 PM

Post #3 of 18 (5618 views)

Shortcut

Re: [bunny] cuando hablar de tu o usted?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Though Spanish, in Mexico at least, is not as formal as it used to be, when in doubt I think you are safer to use "Usted". Sure, "Tu" does convey friendliness but, in your question, you are not addressing friends. If the person you are conversing with thinks you are being too formal, they will say "Háblame de tú", then you can change to the more familiar.
Doogie,
Tapatío de corazón

song_of_joy

May 13, 2006, 7:26 PM

Post #4 of 18 (5600 views)

Shortcut

Re: [doogie] cuando hablar de tu o usted?

Can't Post | Private Reply

In my middle age, and as the sainted mother of two young Mexican men, I am a bit freer these days using tu with younger women and anyone of college age.

However, I always speak to men as usted. Always.

(Except the venerable Mr. McLaughlin. Even though he is indeed of very high status and is older than he looks, he gives the impression of being an exuberant boy at heart. And tends to call everyone tu anyway.)

I had an unsettling experience not too long ago. I do a lot of work for the corporate headquarters of a large transnational business. When I go to the office at lunchtime, I have to buzz at the back door. Well dressed executives let me in, and I politely call all the men (and the women I haven't met) usted.

Summoned to a business meeting, one such gentleman was present. "Have you met Mr. X?" the person who'd set up the meeting asked. Mr. X had opened the door for me a number of times. "Si, ya nos conocemos," he said. "Que gusto de verte! ¿Como estas?"

I had to think fast. Should I stick to my infallible Usted Rule? I'd risk seeming servile. Perhaps acting as a prim and proper female would put me at a disadvantage professionally. But... oh dear me! I went pale, I was sweating, but I shook his hand firmly. "Muy bien, gracias. ¿Y tu? ¿Como has estado?" I said.

Even though Mr. X turned out to be the company's General Director and Vice President for Latin America, I'd made the right choice. Whew!

(This post was edited by song_of_joy on May 13, 2006, 7:37 PM)

bunny

Mar 12, 2007, 8:53 PM

Post #5 of 18 (5362 views)

Shortcut

Re: [bunny] cuando hablar de tu o usted?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Okay, it's nearly a year later and this is still driving me crazy, I guess because the "usted" form of relating is so unfamiliar to me and I am looking for permission to skip it except in the most exceedingly formal of circumstances. And yet, as one whose Spanish is at the Tarzan level, I take the advice in this forum much like the tablets from god to Moses. So: What I wonder is why children here always address me with "tu"--that is, children I have never met. On the street the other day: "Eres una gringa?" Today as I was checking out a new school possibility for my kids, a 7-yr-old asks me: "Como te llamas?"

Why would I use "usted" with strangers my own age, when unfamiliar children hablan de tu with me? How improper will it seem, if I use "tu" in a situation where others of you suggest using "usted"? I am truly at sea on this subject, which is clearly as much a cultural question as a language one. Hope you don't mind my rescusitating this discussion. Any more input?

Gretchen

quevedo

Mar 12, 2007, 11:04 PM

Post #6 of 18 (5353 views)

Shortcut

Re: [bunny] Children are fresh

Can't Post |

Thank God.

(An extra piece of advice: Relax. Take it easy. Do your best to follow the "rules" here expressed but don't let them overwhelm your own freshness. Enjoy.)

Saludos,

Quevedo

morgaine7

Mar 12, 2007, 11:27 PM

Post #7 of 18 (5351 views)

Shortcut

Re: [bunny] cuando hablar de tu o usted?

Can't Post | Private Reply

I'm glad you brought this up. Here's an "usted" scenario: I've been exchanging emails with a Mexican Consulate representative (don't ask) and struggling with the conjugations, but at least he gave me the initial cue: "En atención a su reciente consulta..." I'm sure I make many mistakes when writing, but he seems content that I can communicate at all en español, thus relieving him from having to translate everything he sends me.

Kate

(This post was edited by morgaine7 on Mar 12, 2007, 11:30 PM)

bunny

Mar 13, 2007, 10:10 PM

Post #8 of 18 (5320 views)

Shortcut

Re: [quevedo] Children are fresh

Can't Post | Private Reply

Quevedo, tu eres un durazno (si no te molesta que nos hablamos de "tu").

Gretchen

(This post was edited by bunny on Mar 13, 2007, 10:30 PM)

quevedo

Mar 14, 2007, 12:06 PM

Post #9 of 18 (5303 views)

Shortcut

Re: [bunny] ¿Durazno?

Can't Post |

Durazno. Dura-azno. ¿Duro y asno?

Gracias por hablarme de tú.

Saludos divertidos,

Quevedo

esperanza

Mar 14, 2007, 2:17 PM

Post #10 of 18 (5293 views)

Shortcut

Re: [quevedo] ¿Durazno?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Uuuuuuy, don Quevedo! Ni duro ni asno!

Durazno quiere decir que eres muy suavecito y dulce.

Pero ya sabes eso, no?

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

bunny

Mar 14, 2007, 9:31 PM

Post #11 of 18 (5279 views)

Shortcut

Re: [esperanza] ¿Durazno?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Durazno quiere decir que eres muy suavecito y dulce.

Absolutamente.

Gretchen

(This post was edited by bunny on Mar 14, 2007, 9:48 PM)

jerezano

Mar 15, 2007, 10:37 AM

Post #12 of 18 (5258 views)

Shortcut

Re: [bunny] ¿Durazno?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Hello,

Durazno quiere decir que eres muy suavecito y dulce.

Sr. Quevedo was well aware of that but he let his wit get the better of him. For his benefit, he might not yet know the American Idiom for "Eres un durazno"--Youre a Peach'. An idiom not used lightly since it always carries affection with it.

Mexicans always love to play with words. You can see it on their faces when engaged in pleasant conversation. That is also the reason it is so difficult to understand what is going on in modern plays here in Mexico. The double and tripple meanings come fast and not far between. Street or daily language is a necessary part of our education.

Adiós. jerezano.

BrentB

Apr 7, 2007, 6:58 PM

Post #13 of 18 (5062 views)

Shortcut

Re: [esperanza] ¿Durazno?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Esperanza and Don Quevedo

Esperanza, since you used "don", wouldn't it be correct to use the Ud form of treating him?

My wife didn't start "tutearing" me until after we had our 2nd baby. She was from the old school. At work and all the university students in MX and most of the rest of Latin America say that amongst anybody under 70 years of age, the Ud no longer exists, they tutear or use Vos, a more familiar form yet. In the countryside, Ud still predominates, even among younger people.

I can remember when, if you "tuteabed" too early with a member of the opposite sex, you were considered rude or trying to be too "friendly", as in looking for something.

brent

quevedo

Apr 7, 2007, 10:02 PM

Post #14 of 18 (5055 views)

Shortcut

Re: [BrentB] ¡Ay, Esperanza!

Can't Post |

¿Ves? Calling me Don and then tuteando me.

Behave yourself, querida amiga.

Un abrazo,

Quevedo

esperanza

Apr 7, 2007, 10:11 PM

Post #15 of 18 (5050 views)

Shortcut

Re: [quevedo] ¡Ay, Esperanza!

Can't Post | Private Reply

Híjole, ustedes. A mi amigo Quevedo le digo 'don' con un cariño muy respetuoso, le digo 'tú' de manera igual, y me porto bien siempre y en todo lugar. Pues, casi.

Pero ahora qué pueden ustedes pensar de mi.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Apr 7, 2007, 10:13 PM)

quevedo

Apr 7, 2007, 10:15 PM

Post #16 of 18 (5046 views)

Shortcut

Re: [esperanza] ¡Ay, Esperanza!

Can't Post |

You're the durazno, you are.

That's what I think.

Un abrazo,

Quevedo

BrentB

Apr 8, 2007, 7:29 AM

Post #17 of 18 (5030 views)

Shortcut

Re: [quevedo] ¡Ay, Esperanza!

Can't Post | Private Reply

Don Quevedo y Doña Esperanza,

¿Se puede tutear con Don o Doña? ¿Hay regla en Castellano?

It seems that Spanish, like English is evolving and many rules are being tossed aside.

Saludos!

brent

quevedo

Apr 8, 2007, 7:34 AM

Post #18 of 18 (5028 views)

Shortcut

Re: [BrentB] ¡Ay, Esperanza!

Can't Post |

Esperanza addresses me as a tú while she calls me Don Quevedo because she is a good friend and jokes with me in this manner. No, it is not usual to use both forms of speech at the same time.

Saludos,

Quevedo