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Carlos

Dec 15, 2002, 2:50 PM

Post #26 of 42 (1323 views)

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Re: [Mereja] a question

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"un vaso de agua"

Es correcto decir/escribir: un vaso CON agua!
CON horchata!
CON Coca!

Brad.

Dec 15, 2002, 3:17 PM

Post #27 of 42 (1319 views)

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Re: [Carlos] a question

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From Real Academia Española:

3. m. Cantidad de líquido que cabe en él. Vaso de agua, de vino.

quevedo

Dec 15, 2002, 3:38 PM

Post #28 of 42 (1323 views)

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Re: [Carlos] Un vaso de vino

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In Reply To

"un vaso de agua"

Es correcto decir/escribir: un vaso CON agua!
CON horchata!
CON Coca!

Por supuesto que es correcto hablar de un vaso con agua. Y también es correcto decir un vaso de agua o un vaso de horchata. (Digo, para no hablar de un buen vaso de vino tinto -mucho mejor que uno de Coca.)

De la misma forma es correcto decir y escribir un metro de tela, un kilogramo de frijoles, un litro de aguardiente. Porque vaso, además de recipiente físico, significa unidad de medida. Lo mismo que taza: media taza de vinagre o dos tazas de café.

Según el D.R.A.E.,

vaso. (Del lat. vasum) m. Pieza cóncava de mayor o menor tamaño, capaz de contener alguna cosa. || [...] || 3. Cantidad de líquido que cabe en ella. Vaso de agua, de vino. || [...]

Salud,

Quevedo

quevedo

Dec 15, 2002, 3:45 PM

Post #29 of 42 (1317 views)

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Re: [Brad Smith] Se me adelantó usted, Sr. Brad

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Parece que escribimos al mismo tiempo: llegó usted primero con la respuesta.

Gracias por su comentario, y perdón por repetirlo yo.

Salud y pesetas,

Quevedo

esperanza

Dec 15, 2002, 4:07 PM

Post #30 of 42 (1315 views)

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Re: [jturpen] a question

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Turpen, I think it's great that you ask questions and that you seek specifics~it's a great way to find out what you want to know. I apologize if I sounded harsh or impatient.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

jturpen

Dec 15, 2002, 6:08 PM

Post #31 of 42 (1320 views)

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Re: [Mereja] Horchata (nm)

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Muchas gracias Mereja ...

By profession I am an analyst/programmer and I have used many different development tools. In this occupation it is often asked, 'what language is your programming language'. In each language there are exact and specific rules that a programmer must follow religiously or the code won't compile and therefore the customer has no application thus no solution.

I studied spanish in school for four years (unfortunately it was Castillian based and does not exactly fit the Mexican constructs). I have several friends from various parts of Mexico and I ask them often about words, phrases and idioms. Depending on their total set of experiences, the answer will be afforded. I find that interesting. I also have relatives in Texas and Kentucky; what an amazing time it is when we get together for a family re-union, talk about using words of the same language in very different ways!

As I read through the forum, it appears there are several levels of people with their own agendas. When someone, myself for example, asks a question that someone else may think, 'anyone with a modicum of intelligence should know that' ... attitude ... it is unpleasant for the one who is farther back on the learning curve.

If Esperanza is a Mexican, it is the first time I have encountered that attitude from that culture. Everyone I know who is a Mexican are very patient and seems to enjoy helping the process of better understanding ... not just understanding the language.

Thanks Mereja for your message ... it means alot.

Joe

Mereja

Dec 15, 2002, 10:05 PM

Post #32 of 42 (1286 views)

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Re: [Mereja] Horchata (nm)

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Perdon, escribi (not escribir) como lo hace mi esposo.

Mereja

Dec 16, 2002, 11:47 AM

Post #33 of 42 (1283 views)

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Re: [jturpen] another example

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I just thought of a couple of examples of things that cannot be translated directly. For example if you say "I am 20 years old", it is not correct to say "Estoy 20 anos de edad." You have to say, "Tengo 20 anos de edad." Also, if you want to say "it makes sense" you wouldn't say "hace sentido" you would say "tiene sentido". I am not sure exactly why, but there is probably an explanation for it. In spanish you will find that a lot of words are more literal, so you are not really 20 years old like you are a doctor or mechanic etc.

I took spanish in high school for two years. It helped, but I don't think you really learn a language until you can use it and make mistakes. When I really wanted to learn spanish I got a really good book, "Madrigal's Magic Key to Spanish" and started studying it and getting around native speakers and asking questions. I also got 2 cassettes of Juan Gabriel with songs that were slow enough so you could understand the words and listened to them until I had a lot of the words memorized and then asked people what it meant if I didn't understand.

Keep learning.

REY

Dec 16, 2002, 2:47 PM

Post #34 of 42 (1275 views)

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Re: [Mereja] another example

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"Estoy 20 anos de edad." - wrong form of "to be"...using "estar" instead of "ser".

"I am" = "Yo soy"

"Yo soy (de) 20 años de edad."

You CAN say "hace sentido" just do a search on your favorite search engine for "hace sentido", and you'll get a lot of hits.

Hope that helps ;)

♪Tú estás siempre en mi mente. Pienso en ti, mi amor, cada instante.♪ <--my fav...first song I learned when I was a weeeeee little beaner :0)

popeynme

Dec 16, 2002, 3:44 PM

Post #35 of 42 (1267 views)

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Re: [scott] a question

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As I understand it, words ending in

'-ma', '-pa', are masculine even though they end in 'a'.

Examples: el idioma, el mapa

Carlos

Dec 16, 2002, 4:39 PM

Post #36 of 42 (1260 views)

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Re: [quevedo] Un vaso de vino

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In Reply To

Asi es Sr. Q.

Desde que tengo uso de razón esta ha sido
mi lógica de pensar:
Un vaso DE vino se refiere más a una cantidad,
a la medida, a la capacidad.
Un vaso (una copa para que no se ofendan los sommeliers)
CON vino se refiere más al contenido, a lo que está dentro del vaso
y en mi opinión hasta lo que está afuera si el vaso/copa está
manchado con vino y sin lavar. Un vaso con vino puede tener diez
centilitros de vino o estar lleno--no importa. Un vaso/copa de vino, sin
embargo, presupone una cantidad específica, es decir, un vaso. Por eso, en
las recetas de cocina, se habla de tazas "de" y no de tazas "con". Dos
tazas de azúcar y una de aceite, por ejemplo. Una taza de aceite o dos de
azúcar son completa y claramente diferentes a dos tazas con azúcar, o una
con aceite. Si siguiera estrictamente una receta que dijera; "...añádale
una taza con azúcar y una cucharadita con sal", por ahí acabo cocinando un
mejunje con azúcar y sal.
Felices Pascuas y Mejor Año Nuevo colegas foristas!

(This post was edited by Carlos on Dec 16, 2002, 4:41 PM)

Georgia

Dec 16, 2002, 6:20 PM

Post #37 of 42 (1266 views)

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Re: [jturpen] a question

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Word for word translations rarely work, as far as producing equivalent utterances. They are useful when you really don't know the language. It's best to learn a language in terms of phrases/structures rather than individual vocabulary items. Start with basic structures and then plug in different vocabulary.

There are some good language learning programs that do this. I believe the Pimsleur method is one that is available on CD rom and tape.

In any event:

Do you want some ........? English

Quiere(s) ....................? Spanish

Est-ce que vous voulez de(s) .........? French

See, they are all different structures.

It's hard at first. The nice thing is that if you are traveling in Mexico the people will make every effort to understand and help you. It is appreciated when gringos try to speak their language when they are in Mexico. The key is to keep practicing and learn the structures: don't try to analyze them, it's futile in most languages. Master the structure, plug in new vocabulary.

Mereja

Dec 16, 2002, 6:31 PM

Post #38 of 42 (1243 views)

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Re: [REY] another example

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I guess you can say 'hace sentido'. I didn't know that before. I heard a gabacho talking the other day who hasn't spoken spanish for very long and he started to say "hace sentido" and then he changed it to "tiene sentido". Maybe in the context of what he was saying it sounded better to say "tiene sentido". Gracias.

jturpen

Dec 16, 2002, 6:52 PM

Post #39 of 42 (1251 views)

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Re: [Mereja] another example

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Mereja ...

Thanks for the information. It is certainly an ongoing learning. Your examples are very helpful (although I noticed another post just after your sthat made a different statement). The 'exceptions to the rule' category grows daily. My effort is to 'think' in the spanish language (Mexican version). Like you I have studied the language ... I generally understand the conjugation and have a reasonable vocabulary (for someone with no daily concentrated speaking).

Years ago when I visited Baja fairly regular, I spoke and understood enough to get in and out of the culture. My effort now is to peel the layers of the onion and really know why certain rule applications are relevant.

Joe

jturpen

Dec 16, 2002, 6:57 PM

Post #40 of 42 (1255 views)

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Re: [Georgia] a question

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Georgia ...

WOW ... talk about a post with so many gems of knowledge. Thanks for each expressed idea. I have copied your post to a sheet that I now have printed near the study area. Your points 1. Don't translate literally. 2. Learn in phrases. 3. Mexicans are very helpful.

I checked your profile ... I know why the upstate New Yorkers are so appreciated ... not at all like some of those from mid-town Manhatten folks.

Thank you very much

Joe

REY

Dec 16, 2002, 10:18 PM

Post #41 of 42 (1228 views)

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Re: [Carlos] a question

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"de"=of
"con"=with

"un vaso con agua"="a glass with water"
"un vaso de agua"="a glass of water"...it has two senses....of water (with water inside) or of water (made of water), but people know you mean "glass of water (water inside)" when you say "vaso de agua"

Hope that helps

lin robinson

Dec 18, 2002, 10:39 AM

Post #42 of 42 (1251 views)

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Re: [scott] a question

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"Una coca por favor" is a common way to order a coke. I would interpret "quieres coca" as an invitation to snort cocaine, actually. A pause also said to refresh.

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