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ncferret

Jun 26, 2006, 8:31 AM

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Traer versus llenar

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I am having a devil of a time getting the usage of these 2 verbs correct. A simple definition of "llenar is carry from" and "traer is bring to", doesn't seem to work.

Any suggestions or examples or are these 2 verbs just used incorrectly by many locals?

esperanza

Jun 26, 2006, 9:25 AM

Post #2 of 17 (4203 views)

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Re: [ncferret] Traer versus llenar

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Traer is, among other things, 'to bring'.

Llenar is 'to fill'.

I believe that you are thinking of llevar, which means many, many things, including 'to take'.

It's English-speakers who often use 'to bring' and 'to take' incorrectly. Native Spanish-speakers do not generally make the same errors.

You'll find the same distinctions made (in Spanish) between 'ir' (to go) and 'venir' (to come).

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

ncferret

Jun 26, 2006, 9:59 AM

Post #3 of 17 (4196 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Traer versus llenar

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Yes, sorry I meant llevar. Llevar, llenar, llegar - took me a while to get those straight. Guess I still mess it up :)

Maybe I'm just not understanding the difference in English - that's certainly possible. My English has definitely improved from studying Spanish!

For example, I'm home and I'm going to take a book back to the library. Am I bringing the book to the library (traer), or taking the book (from the house) to the library (llevar).

Para llevar is used commonly as "take-out". I'm taking the food home, but I'm also bringing it to my family. I think you're right, I need an English lesson. Take pity on us poor geeky engineers as we only understand computer languages!

quevedo

Jun 26, 2006, 11:20 AM

Post #4 of 17 (4190 views)

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Re: [ncferret] Traer versus llevar

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Va usted a llevar el libro a la biblioteca.

Saludos,

Quevedo
Ingeniero amante de las letras

esperanza

Jun 26, 2006, 11:28 AM

Post #5 of 17 (4190 views)

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Re: [ncferret] Traer versus llenar

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El empleado de la biblioteca pide a la señora, "Favor de traérme el libro que llevó hace un mes." La señora lleva el libro a la biblioteca.

The library employee asks the woman, "Please bring me the book which you took a month ago." The woman takes the book to the library.

La señora habla por teléfono a su señor. "¿Nos traes algo de comer de la pizzería?." El señor lleva la pizza a su familia.

The woman speaks to her husband on the telephone. "Bring us something to eat from the pizzería." The husband takes the pizza to his family.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Don Moore

Jun 26, 2006, 10:40 PM

Post #6 of 17 (4166 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Traer versus llenar

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Excellent lesson in both Spanish and English. It is very interesting. Here in Memphis, where butchering English is common, I never hear the confusion of bring and take. I hear it a lot when I travel to the Northeastern states or hear it confused here by people from that part of the country. I think the confusion must have originated with non-English speaking immigrants and just hung on as an error so common that few even recognize it as error
Don Moore

esperanza

Jun 27, 2006, 6:04 AM

Post #7 of 17 (4154 views)

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Re: [Don Moore] Traer versus llenar

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Here's a common error in English, which I've heard everywhere I've been in the USA (46 states):

"What was your contribution to the potluck?"

"I brought tuna noodle casserole."

(The tuna noodle casserole was not the mistake.)

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Rolly

Jun 27, 2006, 6:17 AM

Post #8 of 17 (4152 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Traer versus llenar

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"The tuna noodle casserole was not the mistake."

The hell it wasn't! Smile

Rolly

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

jerezano

Jun 27, 2006, 8:41 AM

Post #9 of 17 (4141 views)

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Re: [ncferret] Traer versus llenar

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Hello ncferret,

Where are you when you are talking? If you are at home and are going to take a book to the library, then it is llevar.

If you are at the library and you are going home to bring a book back then it is traer.

This also works with ir and venir. Unfortunately we Americans respond to a call with "I'm coming!" while the Spanish speaking people respond more correctly with "I'm going."

So, it all depends with where you are when you are speaking. Remember that and you will be OK.

Adios. jerezano.

jerezano

Jun 27, 2006, 8:51 AM

Post #10 of 17 (4139 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Traer versus llenar

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Hello,

Quote: "I brought tuna noodle casserole." end quote

Again, the location of the speaker is important! If this is said while attending the potluck and perhaps eating the tuna noolde casserole or better yet the apple pie with ice cream, then the sentence is absolutely correct.

If it is said at any other location, then it is incorrect. It should be I took....

This distinction is ALWAYS made in Spanish. Spanish speakers are usually much more careful with their language (and their location) than we North Americans are.

Adios. jerezano.

(This post was edited by jerezano on Jun 27, 2006, 8:53 AM)

ncferret

Jun 27, 2006, 10:15 AM

Post #11 of 17 (4133 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Traer versus llenar

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I know you guys are trying to help this poor dumb engineer, but you're making me even more confused. I understand the difference betweem come (venir) and go (ir) - never had a problem with that. I've even gotten (removed) all the "gets" from most of my speaking and writing:

I got (received) it in the mail.
I get (understand) it.
Can we get (obtain or pickup) some food?
You're getting (making) me confused.

Etc, etc.

Sounds like there is some disagreement here (location is important?) and I understand that the problem I am having is proper English usage of these 2 words. I wrote to a friend of mine who is an English professor. Below is his response. His explanation is how I used the verbs in English - bring to (from a location) and carry from (to a location), but that seems to be in conflict with how the words are used in Spanish. At least by many people I talk to...

I love questions like this.
It’s primarily a matter of direction and perspective.
Bring implies movement toward the destination, while take implies movement away from the destination. In the first example below, the perspective is from the library employee and, therefore, the library. Bring (toward the library) the book you took (away from the library). If you say “The woman brings the book to the library” that is also correct because it is now from the perspective of the woman, not the librarian.

The second is trickier. The woman wants a pizza brought (toward) home. The husband takes it to her, which implies movement away from the pizzeria. In context, we may be seeing the scene from the perspective of the pizzeria (he’s taking it from the pizzeria).

Here’s the general rule, which, of course, may or may not be followed:
http://www.usingenglish.com/...s/bring-and-take.pdf

Note the examples on the second page.

(This post was edited by ncferret on Jun 27, 2006, 10:26 AM)

misslyn

Jun 27, 2006, 10:34 AM

Post #12 of 17 (4128 views)

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Re: [Don Moore] Traer versus llenar

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Now Don, I'm sure you know that "tote" is a multi-purpose verb in the South! It's just that accent that makes ya'll think we don't talk right.

Lyn (formerly from Memphis)

misslyn

Jun 27, 2006, 10:38 AM

Post #13 of 17 (4126 views)

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Re: [ncferret] Traer versus llenar

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Dave, I'm with you - this is making my head spin! And I was an English major! I do like the part of the attached explanation from your friend that says "bring" and "take" can be interchangeable, because that's certainly how they're used in English. I guess some things just are not literally translatable. But kudos to you for trying to improve your Spanish. We all have learned something about both languages now.

Lyn

ncferret

Jun 27, 2006, 10:49 AM

Post #14 of 17 (4125 views)

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Re: [misslyn] Traer versus llenar

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Maybe in Spanish the difference is that the physical location is all that matters? Not what the speaker is thinking or imagining?

The umbrella example is a good one:

Carry (llevar) an umbrella with you.
Bring (traer) an umbrella with you.

Either is possible, and correct, in English depending on the thoughts of the person making the statement. Would it always be llevar in Spanish?

I'm just guessing here...

misslyn

Jun 27, 2006, 12:00 PM

Post #15 of 17 (4118 views)

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Re: [ncferret] Traer versus llenar

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I think I would use llevar in the sense of carrying an umbrella, yes. At least that's my impression based on the expert advice from our moderator, Esperanza and Jerezano. Although that brings up another question, since in the subjunctive the feeling or intention is very important. Experts?

Don Moore

Jun 27, 2006, 3:42 PM

Post #16 of 17 (4104 views)

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Re: [misslyn] Traer versus llenar

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Misslyn,

Actually, I haven't heard tote used in Memphis since I was a child back in the '50s except in jest. The word has been co-opted and used as a noun by the luggage industry. As to accent, after many years living in other places, I no longer speak like the folks I was raised with; and most of the youngsters in these parts speak Valley Girl, not Southern, regardless of where they were born and raised (or is it reared?).

When and where did you live in Memphis and at what point in your life? (Rolly also lived here for several years, by the way) I know this is now way off topic and maybe you should PM me.
Don Moore

jerezano

Jun 27, 2006, 8:49 PM

Post #17 of 17 (4090 views)

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Re: [ncferret] Traer versus llenar

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Hello ncferret,

This engineer didn't mean to confuse you. I just don't know how to say it any clearer. The place where the speaker is---is important. Even the general rule quoted

In most dialects of American English bring is used to denote motion toward the place of speaking or the place from which the action is regarded: Bring it over here.
says it, but not so clearly.

If the speaker is talking about motion toward the place where he/she is the word is bring. If the speaker is talking about motion toward some other place it is take.

Now the only confusion that enters is when the speaker is NOT somewhere but is thinking of being in that other place. If the speaker is at home but is thinking of being at work then he would say I always bring my lunch to work, instead of take my lunch....

But that could confuse his/her listeners who happen to be at home with him/her because they would think take.... But there is really no confusion because the listeners know automatically that the speaker is thinking of being at work.

So, lets take the "I'm coming" response from Americans when they are called to come over there by somebody on the other side of the room. The Spanish speaker would say "Voy--I'm going." This would indicate that he is going to leave where he is at and go to where he has been called.

Now is there any confusion with either? No, of course not. The first speaker is speaking from his point of view (location). The hearer is responding from his point of view (location).

Our confusion with the Spanish speaker is that we have always heard and been taught from our very youngest ages to respond to "Come over here" with "I'm coming". He/she on the other hand has always been taught and heard---perhaps more correctly from the grammar point of view--"I'm going."

So which is right? Why the idiom is right, of course. We do in English what is natural. In Spanish we do the same. If we are learning Spanish we learn what they do.

Adios. jerezano.