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jilla

Nov 1, 2004, 6:51 AM

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Spanish Dialogue

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I'm going to end up with perhaps a few dozen lines of Mexican Spanish dialogue in the novel I'm writing. On first draft I usually insert computer translations then go for real ones when the manuscript is closer to final. Would anyone care to help if I post dialogue as I go?

Here's an example:

"I apologize. That was stupid of me."

Computer translation:

"Me disculpo. Eso era estúpido de mí."

Also, my character Luis's appellation for the character named Coral is the equivalent of "beautiful one." Would he call her: "mi hermosa" ?

Finally, Luis has become El Señor. How would his extended family refer to him in person and to others?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Jamie L

http://www.jrlankford.com
http://www.thejesusthief.com

esperanza

Nov 1, 2004, 7:36 AM

Post #2 of 9 (937 views)

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Re: [jilla] Spanish Dialogue

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"I apologize. That was stupid of me."

<<Perdóname. Qué tonto yo.>> Or: <<Perdóname, hice una tontería.>> or <<Discúlpame. Comití una tontería.>>

Estúpido is an extremely strong word in Spanish, rude and shocking, and would never be used in polite conversation. Plus, you need to change the verb usage depending on who he's talking to. If it's someone close to him (like Coral), then it's what I wrote. If it's to a business associate, an elder, or someone he doesn't know well, then it would be different.

There are so many ways to say 'my beautiful one'. You might have him say 'mi preciosidad' or 'mi lindura' or 'mi chulada'...switch off among several; I doubt that he'd just use one. There are a million other ways to say it...

What do you mean, he has become El Señor? The first thing that came to mind was the Lord (as in Jesus), but I'm sure that's not it.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

hermano

Nov 1, 2004, 8:11 PM

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Re: [esperanza] Spanish Dialogue

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¿Se puede traducir su uso de ¨El Señor¨ como ¨el patriarca¨ tal como dijéramos en inglés ¨the lord of the manor¨ or ¨the squire¨? Una sugerencia no más.

Saludos.

Hermanito

jilla

Nov 1, 2004, 10:13 PM

Post #4 of 9 (891 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Spanish Dialogue

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In Reply To

Thanks for the info and suggestions. In this case, Coral [a gringo] has unintentionally said something insensitive to Luis and one of his cousins who will play an important role: Francisco Miguel.

In Reply To

What do you mean, he has become El Señor? The first thing that came to mind was the Lord (as in Jesus), but I'm sure that's not it.

I read it's a term of address equivalent to calling him the big boss or top dog. It indicates his status. What I'm not sure of is who would use it and when.

Jamie L

http://www.jrlankford.com
http://www.thejesusthief.com

jilla

Nov 1, 2004, 10:20 PM

Post #5 of 9 (888 views)

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Re: [hermano] Spanish Dialogue

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¿Se puede traducir su uso de ¨El Señor¨ como ¨el patriarca¨ tal como dijéramos en inglés ¨the lord of the manor¨ or ¨the squire¨? Una sugerencia no más.

Saludos.

Hermanito

Unfortunately I can't write Spanish but I thank you for this reply. Yes, this is the meaning. Who would call my character El Señor or el patriarca and under what circumstances? Another way of asking my question is: How would his servants, employees and relatives address Luis? In the novel he has become a very rich and powerful man.

Thanks for any advice.

Jamie L

http://www.jrlankford.com
http://www.thejesusthief.com

hermano

Nov 2, 2004, 5:49 AM

Post #6 of 9 (882 views)

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Re: [jilla] Spanish Dialogue

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Good morning.

Persons speaking of Luis in the third person (business associates, for example) would most likely refer to him as el señor (not capitalized, as that would refer to our Lord) and his last name or "apellido," or even don Luis if they were on a bit more familiar standing. I would think his household servants most likely would address him as "señor Fulano de Tal" (Mr. So-and-So), or perhaps "patrón". If he were the head of an important family, he would, of course, be "el patriarca de la familia," and shown deference as such. A native speaker may perhaps have other ideas.

Have a wonderful day!

Hermanito

jerezano

Nov 5, 2004, 2:12 PM

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Re: [hermano] Spanish Dialogue

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Hello,

If Luis is now the acknowledged lord and master of the family he would probably be addressed by all the family and close relatives and friends as Don Luís, or a really close friend or family member might call him Don Güicho. Many others as well would call him Don Luís. His servants would no doubt call him Señor Luís or a long time servant; Señor Gúicho.

As to Coral, a gringa, he would probably address her in English. Fractured or otherwise. They would have pet names and he would no doubt use a mixture of English and Spanish. It is common among many Mexicans to refer to the wife or mistress or lover as vieja. He might even call her that. And of course there is always the term mi media narajana.
I would also suggest preciosa or precious.

Also, you haven't really told us enough about his background. That will make a big difference in his modales (manners) and his vocabulary, etc. He is new rich, of course, but how will that change his upbringing? Somewhere I remember (wrongly?) that he was raised in Mexico City. Those defeños (chilangos) are different in speech, action, courtesy, etc., just as much as New Yorkers are a different breed. And, as with New Yorkers it is difficult for a non-chilango to predict exactly how they will react. If Luís is from there, you better get your advice from there too.

Adios. Jerezano.

jerezano

Nov 5, 2004, 3:28 PM

Post #8 of 9 (826 views)

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Re: [jilla] Spanish Dialogue

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Hello,

It's me (Jerezano) again. You've set me thinking.

First of all, in the part of Mexico where I live, Perdón or Perdónenme or Perdóname is used before the act. It is like Con Permiso. I am going to do something that will bother you and I am asking for your pardon before I do it.

In the case of Coral who has already said something hurtful or insensitive to Luís and his cousin, the proper thing here would be to ask for pardon with:

Disculpa. or Discúlpenme. Fue una tontería. I, myself, would use >Disculpa. Fue una tontería.< as being more natural. But the relationship between Luís and Coral is important. If we are to assume that she has learned her Spanish from him, then she would say whatever he would say. That's why it is important to make sure that her words would be his words that he learned growing up.

Also with regard to that relationship, I find it hard to believe that a lover would address his loved one as "the beautiful one". I would expect that from a very friendly relationship where perhaps Luís would like to extract more but has been refused time and again. Perhaps this reaction stems from many years of reading a columnist who always referred to his wife as "the bw", but I'm sure that he didn't call her that when talking to her.

A good translation for beautiful one would be Linda. I have heard Mexican men say that to good women friends fairly often. Luís would not say chulada unless the relationship were intimate or The Beautiful One showed up in a very sexy dress and while his jaw was still dropped and his tongue hanging out he might say ¡Qué chulada¡ before he could stop himself. Or even if he could, it is a very useful and appropriate piropo.

Adios. Jerezano.

jilla

Nov 5, 2004, 4:39 PM

Post #9 of 9 (818 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Spanish Dialogue

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Thanks for your comments and suggestions. Coral and Luis have a business relatonship. She is a very high-priced call girl kept on his payroll. She will figure in achieving his key goal, so their relationship is financial but, emotionally, they are developing a brother/sister sort of bond, if fraught with caution. She learned Spanish in the USA and hasn't spent much time around Mexicans until now.

I haven't firmly decided where Luis is from, other than generally the former Aztec region, but I know this is vital. For now I'm earmarking the places I'll have to change when I nail this down.

Luis's background is middle class. So far I've imagined that his mestizo family rose from poverty in the oil boom, but became bankrupt in the mid 1980's before he could finish university.

Jamie L

http://www.jrlankford.com
http://www.thejesusthief.com