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sandykayak


Jul 23, 2004, 8:23 AM

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La "v" y la "b"

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En otro foro, una senora dijo que su maestra de espanol le enseno que la "v" se pronuncia como "b"

otro comentario fue que la "v" al comienzo de una palabra se pronuncia como "b"

Yo me crie en Venezuela y mi mama es ecuatoriana...jamas he oido (entre gente educada) que eso sea cierto. Claro que en el campo y entre gente humilde se cometen errores...e.g. farda en vez de falda.

Quisiera una aclaracion. Gracias
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque



alex .

Jul 23, 2004, 9:03 AM

Post #2 of 15 (3323 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] B de burro

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With Mexican Spanish (as far as I'm able to tell) the b and v are pronounced the same. So similar, in fact , that when recording information the person writing will often ask " V chica or B grande ?"
A gal I know actually has her name recorded on her birth certificate (and hence her Elector) as Beronica. It was supposed to be Veronica, but the distinction was not made clear at the time her birth was registered.
Alex


(This post was edited by alex . on Jul 23, 2004, 9:04 AM)


quevedo

Jul 23, 2004, 9:42 AM

Post #3 of 15 (3318 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] La "v" y la "b"

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En México casi no se distingue una pronunciación de la otra. Esto, según me parece, no depende del nivel educativo, sino de una costumbre ya arraigada en este país.

Por supuesto que lo más correcto es diferenciar las pronunciaciones: de hecho, por eso a la b se le llama b labial, y a la v, v labiodental, para indicar de alguna manera esta distinción.

Un saludo cordial,

Quevedo


Lavanda

Jul 25, 2004, 9:18 AM

Post #4 of 15 (3295 views)

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Re: La "v" y la "b"

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Fui ensenyada que se pronuncia con una combinacion de los dos:

bv (quickly) together .... and you have to practice it!



Love, Lavanda


!! Viva Mexico, warts and all !!!




juditha16


Jul 25, 2004, 2:26 PM

Post #5 of 15 (3292 views)

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Re: [Lavanda] La "v" y la "b"

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Yo, también. pero como una fracción: b/v.
Judith


esperanza

Jul 25, 2004, 4:59 PM

Post #6 of 15 (3287 views)

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Re: [juditha16] La "v" y la "b"

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Se me hace que hay diferencias--que sean pequeñas o grandes--en la pronunciación de letras, palabras, etc., entre los países hispanohablantes. O sea, la manera correcta de hablar depende de mucho.

Por ejemplo, en México se dice 'camión' por lo que en otro país se llama 'bus' o 'autobus', y en aún otro el mismo vehículo se llama 'guagua'. De una región a otra en esta República los árboles y las flores tienen diferentes nombres. Por otro ejemplo, acá en las riberas de Chapala hay la bugambilia--la cual se conoce por camelina si uno viaja no más lejos que a Michoacán.

Además, cada región o país tiene su acento especial. Los cubanos no hablan como los puertoriquenses; los hondureños no suenan como los españoles. Los de argentina te dicen 'vos'; en cambio, esto no se oye nunca en México. Nada de esto quiere decir que unos tienen razón y otros no.

Con mucha razón las letras no se pronuncian en una sola manera de país en país. El chiste siempre es abrirse a aprender las costumbres de la lengua en donde uno se encuentra. No hay valor en despreciar a nadie por su manera de hablar.




http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com









alex .

Jul 26, 2004, 7:22 AM

Post #7 of 15 (3270 views)

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Re: [esperanza] autobus

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In Zihuatanejo its called La Flecha, in Tijuana the smaller ones are called La Calafia.
Aren't the regional dialects fun?
Alex


Lavanda

Jul 29, 2004, 5:59 PM

Post #8 of 15 (3229 views)

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Re: acentos

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E los acentos regionales ....

Me crie en McAllen,TX y aprendi el
idioma mas bella del mundo (espanol)
a la edad de quince anyos.

Imaginate me sorpresa cuando mi
cunyado me dijo que tenia acento
de Veracruzana/ jarocha. (NO de
gringa!!!)

Todavia no reconozco muy bien los
acentos regionales, pero despues
de tantos anyos juntandome con
guanjuatenses, sin intentar he
obtenido mas de acento del bajio.

Pero todos me dicen que en ingles
no tengo acento ninguno !!!!

Figurate!


!! Viva Mexico, warts and all !!!




Mtzjjorge

Jul 30, 2004, 9:56 AM

Post #9 of 15 (3218 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] La "v" y la "b"

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Hello Sandy,

I'm actually agree with you in terms of languages in the social status been differnt. Educated people, specially the ones who had the opportunity to go to college and study formal Spanish will agree that although the "V" and "B" might share similarities, phoneticly speaking are totally different. In Spanish there is one phonetic rule or term to describe the "B" as (labial) and the "V" as (labio-dental), which is the structural way and proper articulation in the mouth to distinguish one from the other. For a foreign person this might be helpful to know in order to understand the correct pronuciation.

Jorge
jmartinez@randomhouse.com


alex .

Aug 2, 2004, 7:22 AM

Post #10 of 15 (3188 views)

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Re: [Lavanda] Argentino

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I am often asked if I'm from Argentina. Where I got an Argentine accent I don't know; I know of no one from there.
Alex


BrentB

Aug 2, 2004, 6:39 PM

Post #11 of 15 (3171 views)

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Re: [alex .] autobus

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In Guatemala, they are called, Camioneta.


BrentB

Aug 2, 2004, 6:53 PM

Post #12 of 15 (3170 views)

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Re: [esperanza] La "v" y la "b"

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I was told that a lot of regional names for things, especially flora and fauna came from the original indigenous dialects, especially when the Spanish didn't have that specific species in Spain.
I also was told that many regional; accents came from the the area of "Spain" that the original colonists came from. Someone told me that Cuba, Puerto Rico, and Hispanola, were originally settled by many Andulusians and Catalans, and Mexico Central and South America had many Castilian, Galician and also many settlers from Aragon.
I don't know how true this is,but could account for regional "dialects" or ways of speaking.
Back in the 1960's, long before satellite telephones, internet, etc, anthropologists found villages in the Sangre de Cristo mountains of New Mexico, that were isolated from the outside world, without even electricity. that spoke a Castilian Spanish that hadn't really evolved from the days of the conquest. They spoke old world Castilian Spanish.

Brent


Lavanda

Aug 3, 2004, 5:11 PM

Post #13 of 15 (3156 views)

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Re: [BrentB] regional

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Brent that is interesting - and would explain why there are
"regionalismos" in the accents also.


!! Viva Mexico, warts and all !!!




thfarrell


Aug 3, 2004, 6:13 PM

Post #14 of 15 (3153 views)

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Re: [Lavanda] regional

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Hi...

Northern New Mexico's unique Spanish is the subject of, among other things, a new edition of the "dictionary" described below (the text is pasted from Amazon, and refers to the first edition).

The politics swirling around the concept that "we are a unique culture, not Mexican, that traces its origin directly to Spain" was very interesting to be around during the 60/70/80's.

tom


------- pasted text below --------

A Dictionary of New Mexico & Southern Colorado
by Ruben Cobos

Rubén Cobos' short but monumental "Dictionary of New Mexico and Southern Colorado Spanish" (1983) was a classic the day it was printed. If you have any interest in the Spanish-speaking cultures of northern New Mexico and southern Colorado, this book is a great way to learn something about the dialect without plunging into a difficult linguistic study.

Like Samuel Johnson's dictionary, Cobos's is a book you can sit down and read enjoyably. The entries are not just translations of Spanish words into English. Cobos traces their origin and (in most cases) illustrates their meaning by including them in sample sentences. For instance, "murre" (in standard Spanish, "muy"): "Esta muchita es murre gente" ('This child is very friendly'). Additionally, many words are also explained by the use of proverbs and folk-poems.

Cobos also explains the cultural signficance of about a third of the words in the dictionary. For example, "pitarrilla": "Pitarrilla, f. [<Sp. dim. of 'pitarra', bleariness] a kind of tic-tac-toe game in which one of the players tries to be the first to place three of his chips (pebbles, marbles, grains, etc.) at consecutive points where lines intersect)."

Obviously, the dictionary has great value not only (nor even primarily) for the linguist, but for the anthropologist and historian, as well. It is completely free of technical linguistic terminology and accessible to anyone with a basic knowledge of standard Spanish. (I might emphasize that the book is a guide to local usage only and does not include standard Spanish words.) Although the pronunciation of the New Mexico/southern Colorado dialect is relatively standard, Cobos has taken care to indicate divergences where they exist (e.g., "raices" is pronounced "rái-ces", not "ra-íces"). He includes a short historical and linguistic introduction, tracing the four-hundred year evolution of the dialect. Finally, for a kick, at the start of each alphabetical section you'll find a short proverb -- "P. 'Pa pendejo no se necesita mestro' (To be a fool one needs no school)."
---
"Beauty is in the i of the Beholder"
(Julia Mandelbrot)


Georgia


Aug 10, 2004, 8:18 PM

Post #15 of 15 (3096 views)

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Re: [Mtzjjorge] La "v" y la "b"

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Ah, and my very castizo linguistics professor at the University of Madrid explained that the "v" labiodental rarely appears in speech in Spanish - both "b de burro" and "v de vaca" are pronounced the same. Now, the letter "s" before the letter "m" is a whole different matter!
 
 
 
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