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shoe

Jun 21, 2005, 4:10 PM

Post #1 of 11 (2770 views)

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Good Evening

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I posted this under a discussion in the general forum. I did not get a answer. Anyone here know.

In the evening, getting dark (anochecer), I have been told, by Mexicans and a couple of very fluent Spanish speaking gringos, that it is "buenas nochas" that is used by older folks in the evening. They say that you say "buenos noches" when you are going to bed or it is dark.

If this is correct; how come so few use it? Is it correct?

Still trying to learn español.

shoe

esperanza

Jun 21, 2005, 7:12 PM

Post #2 of 11 (2757 views)

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Re: [shoe] Good Evening

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Shoe, I'm afraid I don't understand your question. Are you interested in knowing when anochecer is used, or...no, I'm afraid I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase it?

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shoe

Jun 22, 2005, 7:41 AM

Post #3 of 11 (2739 views)

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Re: [shoe] Good Evening

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Again. It is my English that is almost as bad as my Spanish. I guess since I don't know English properly, I have trouble with Spanish. Bad hearing doesn't help either. I had managed to avoid things like the words, noun, pronoun,verb, adjetive and such for 50 years. Now I have to try to figure them out again.

Is in the evening, is "buenas nochas" (not positive if it is (as) or (os), but I think it is (as) as someone told me both with a "a", so I would remember), which I find used by older people, correct for "Good Evening"?

Buenos Noches is for good night. Like after dark and going to bed. At 8 at night it is still light now,and it certainly is not night nor is it afternoon so "buenos noches" is not appropriate.

Thanks for trying,
shoe

esperanza

Jun 22, 2005, 9:55 AM

Post #4 of 11 (2733 views)

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Re: [shoe] Good Evening

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It's always buenas noches. Here's why (Shoe, you can close your eyes if you wanna, this is the grammar part): the noun noches [nights] is feminine plural. Any adjective (in this case, buenas) must always agree with the gender and number of the noun. Hence, buenas noches. Buenas tardes as well, because tardes is also the feminine plural. HOWEVER, it's buenos días, because the noun días is masculine plural, even though it appears to be feminine plural due to the 'as' ending. It's one of those tricky ones.

My experience is this:

Buenos días: from the time you get up until noon
Buenas tardes: from noon until around dark
Buenas noches: from dark till you go to bed

I've never heard anyone say--or advise anyone else to say--'buenos noches', which is grammatically incorrect. IMHO, your sources are incorrect.

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shoe

Jun 22, 2005, 10:21 AM

Post #5 of 11 (2731 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Good Evening

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Thank you so much! I did understand your explaination so I didn't close my eyes.

Now one of the people that spreads this around is Walt at the Casa Flores B&B. He swares there is a phrase for "Good Evening". There must be some phrase for it to denote the evening time frame. Walt explained it to my Mexican girlfriend and I think she understood him but can't tell me what he was telling her. Things get lost in the translation.

It just does not make sense to me for there not to be a phrase for "Good Evening". It may not be used any longer but there must be soemthing.

shoe

esperanza

Jun 22, 2005, 12:14 PM

Post #6 of 11 (2725 views)

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Re: [shoe] Good Evening

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Well, you piqued my curiosity and I called Walt.

He said that his native-Spanish-speaking neighbors have told him that they say "Buena noches" during the evening hours and "Buenas noches" late at night.

I believe that they do indeed say "Buena noches", because in colloquial Spanish an 's' is sometimes swallowed or dropped at the end of a word. However, and again IMHO, this does not make "Buena noches" correct or acceptable Spanish--for exactly the noun/adjective reasons that I posted upthread. It's common, but it's incorrect.

And it also has no relationship to the hour of the evening.

I'd equate it with a Kentucky fellow saying "Ev'nin'" rather than 'Good evening'.

Quevedo, ¿qué dices?

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raferguson

Jun 22, 2005, 3:12 PM

Post #7 of 11 (2716 views)

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Re: [shoe] Good Evening

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Part of the confusion factor is that in English, we have four times, morning, afternoon, evening, and night, while in Spanish, there is dia, tarde, and noche. So there is not a simple one to one translation between English and Spanish. I teach English to Spanish speakers, and this is always a source of confusion for them.

I have never heard of this subtle distinction between two kinds of buenas noches. I am with Esperanza that if people are doing it, it is not correct Spanish.

Richard

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esperanza

Jun 22, 2005, 3:32 PM

Post #8 of 11 (2716 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Good Evening

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There are several other Mexican concepts of hours of the day:

amanecer: dawn
Amaneció nublado, pero muy pronto se despejó. It dawned cloudy, but cleared very soon.

mañana: morning
Llego mañana por la mañana. I'll be there tomorrow in the morning.

mediodía: midday
Comimos a mediodía como siempre. As usual, we ate at midday.
This one sounds simple until you remember that 'midday' in Mexico is anywhere from 2-4 PM. Expatriates tend to think of 'midday' as noon, which helps to explain why impatience can set in if the plumber says, "I'll be there just after midday," and you expect him to arrive no later than one o'clock. In fact, 'just after midday' probably means sometime around 4 PM, or even later.

madrugada: the wee hours
No dormí hasta en la madrugada para terminar de ver una película en la tele. I didn't go to sleep till the wee hours so I could finish watching a movie on television.

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quevedo

Jun 22, 2005, 5:26 PM

Post #9 of 11 (2707 views)

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Re: [shoe] Yényere cumama

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Yényere, cumama,
buena noche, buena noche;
Yényere, cumama,
buena noche,
¿cómo está usté?

Vieja canción cubana con evidentes tintes africanos. Por supuesto que el usté va por usted; buena noche desea lo mismo que buenas noches y Yényere cumama no tengo ni idea de lo que signifique.

Buena noche, buenas noches, y que estén bien.

Quevedo

shoe

Jun 23, 2005, 6:09 AM

Post #10 of 11 (2689 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Good Evening

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Thank you again for investigating. Now I understand.

Incorrect grammer is not isolated to Spanish. We do it all the time in English. It just is my first encounter with it in this language.

Thanks to all who commented.

shoe

(This post was edited by shoe on Jun 23, 2005, 6:10 AM)

jerezano

Jun 24, 2005, 8:54 AM

Post #11 of 11 (2659 views)

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Re: [shoe] Good Evening

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Hello everybody,

Perhaps Shoe has a problem with Good Evening as a greeting instead of a goodbye. Even though we don't much use Good Evening as a greeting (rather formal don't you think?) in the USA it is used more often in other English speaking countries.

Yes, Buenas Noches can be used as a greeting as well as a goodbye. Just as one can say Buenos Días--Good Day as a salutation or as a goodbye.

No, to my knowledge there is no special Spanish equivalent for Good Evening as a greeting. You have to use Buenas Noches.

And yes, of course, Buenas Noches is used once the sun sets and it starts getting dark. Although that demarkation is not as rigid as the 12:00 noon demarkation between Buenos Días and Buenas Tardes. If I greet someone with Buenos Días at 12:01PM I can expect to receive a cheery Buenas Tardes in reply.

Adios. jerezano.