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sparks

Jun 9, 2010, 7:10 AM

Post #1 of 10 (3283 views)

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Tinaco or pressure water system

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Got a friend trying to talk me into a bladder tank type water system and I'm leaning towards a tinaco. He says the cost is not much more ... but of that I'm not sure because I haven't found all the components in one package. Tinaco for me is just so simple with less things to go wrong ... especially if street pressure will fill the tinaco. The only positive I can see to a pressure system is no tinaco on your roof and a little more pressure. I have an aljibe and will pump from that when street water is nonexistent

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

morgaine7

Jun 9, 2010, 10:53 AM

Post #2 of 10 (3261 views)

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Re: [sparks] Tinaco or pressure water system

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I personally would install a tinaco in any case. I have an in-ground cisterna which fills from the city supply. If the cisterna is full, the city water redirects to the tinaco. If that's full, too (both operate with float cutoff switches), water stops coming in. If I drain the tinaco, a small (0.5 hp) pump kicks in and brings water to it from the cisterna, even when city water is off. The only things that can really go wrong are a stuck float or the pump losing its prime or freezing ... all of which I can fix myself 99% of the time without calling a plumber. And I always have water somewhere in case the city supply is shut off for several days (e.g. during a hurricane).

One caveat: my house is one story, and the gravity pressure from the tinaco wasn't enough for the showers, washing machine, and drinking water filter. I didn't like the tank pressure system either, so I installed one of these:
http://www.bombasrowa.com/...7&id_subgrupo=32
They're pricey, so mine is the smallest model (SFL9). I got a substantial discount (~2000 MXN less than local retail) by ordering it on Mercado Libre. It's noiseless, uses very little power, and works great. But if it fails, with the tinaco, I still can use the gravity pressure by opening a couple of valves.

Kate

sparks

Jun 9, 2010, 1:31 PM

Post #3 of 10 (3240 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Tinaco or pressure water system

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Interesting gadget .... so it sucks water out of the tinaco with pressure.

I think I'll just do the tinaco first and use it for the RV, yard watering and an outdoor shower. The house is not finished and may pressureize it later

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Casa

Jun 9, 2010, 2:50 PM

Post #4 of 10 (3224 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Tinaco or pressure water system

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I use the same system and the Rowa pressure pump you do and I love it. I highly recommend that little Rowa Bomba for a little added pressure its great ! One added benefit is that it does not stress pipes as the pressure is not constantly on, it is only on when the water is turned on.

johanson

Jun 9, 2010, 5:10 PM

Post #5 of 10 (3207 views)

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Re: [Casa] Tinaco or pressure water system

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Stress the pipes, I love that :) In Seattle which is quite hilly if you live down low "whatever that means" we often have to use pressure reducer valves on the water intake. Although someone told me that I should lower the pressure to about 40 Lb per .. I would always keep it at 60 lb/...

In Mexico, where I live on a steep hill and my Aljibe, not Tinaco is way up above my house. Yes I have a pressure system too, but I don't need to set it very high because of gravity. And I think that the outlet at the lowest level is at about 42 Lb/ square inch (I think its per inch)

Papirex

Jun 10, 2010, 8:32 AM

Post #6 of 10 (3173 views)

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Re: [johanson] Tinaco or pressure water system

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Just a little general information here. 60 PSI is considered the best pressure. 30 PSI is considered to be the minimum acceptable pressure in most areas of The US, I personally consider 40 PSI to be ideal. It's a different story in México. The water pressure produced by gravity flow is about .49 PSI per foot of elevation. As a rule of thumb, consider it to be a half pound of pressure per foot of elevation for the water source.

It is Important to remember that after water reaches its lowest level, pressure is lost at the same rate, plus any friction loss if it travels back uphill, to a second story, etc. Our two showers are gravity fed, and are both on the second floor of our house. Plumbers here almost always “rough in” the showers about 2 feet higher than normal. I had calculated that we had only about 2 PSI of pressure originally at the shower heads.

I have added a couple of those shower heads on a flexible hose, and used a couple of vacuum mounted shower head holders on the tile walls to mount them about 2 feet lower than they were originally mounted. Gaining that extra pound of pressure did not give us great pressure, but it is more acceptable now.

Pressure that is too high will destroy the valves. Pressure of up to about 80 or 100PSI will “cut” the valve seats. The valve seats will look like someone used a hack saw to cut a wiggly line in them, they will leak profusely, and get worse until the valve seats are replaced.

A pressure water system is usually the best solution in México. Since we are now leasing our house, I don't want to spend any extra money for the homeowners benefit.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Scottm

Jun 12, 2010, 2:10 PM

Post #7 of 10 (3106 views)

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Re: [sparks] Tinaco or pressure water system

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Scott, go for the pressure system. You can then add a real filter and UV sterilizer if desired.
As for cost, the price of a hulking tinaco on your roof, or a compact bladder-type tank is negligible.
Bonus: Showers with decent pressure, and you could even add a countertop sterilizer.
The pump / tank combo packages are available from any major building supply outlet..(Construrama, Home D.)
Actually, if you do a detailed costing, I would expect the pressure system to be somewhat less in price than
the tinaco contraption. Of course, use PEX piping so the local talent doesn't steal your copper during construction.

YucaLandia

Jun 17, 2010, 6:27 PM

Post #8 of 10 (3025 views)

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Re: [sparks] Tinaco or pressure water system

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I'm confused about why the question is an either/or proposition?
Why not install both, so the tinaco can be a steady supply of water to the pump? Our city water supply here in Merida has only shut off once in 3 years, but there are times when the pressure is extremely low, and I have seen a number of water pumps whose inlet supply is starved for flow here connected directly to the city service.

If you have the city pressure slowly filling a tinaco 24/7, it gives the home's water system a chance to catch-up, especially at night.

A second advantage of the tinaco is the opportunity to easily treat your home's water for microbial contamination. The most recent studies of Merida's water quality found that 95% of the homes had clean water supplied at the city meter, but that 25% of the homes had sources of microbial contamination inside the home's plumbing. Pop the top of the tinaco and add a simple shot of ½ cup of normal bleach in a 1,100 liter tinaco fixes this contamination easily. It's much more difficult to disinfect a system that only has a ballast tank and pressure pump (Hydropneumatico).

Hydropneumatico's also have some problems here. I've seen 2 different hydropneumaticos here shut down by ants: where the ants like something about the sparking at the points in the electrical contacts of the pump's switch. We had to dose the base of the pump motor, and the inner floor of the switch assembly with powdered diazinon to finally stop the ants from frying themselves in the contacts = brown insulative goo. We think it is worth considering buying a better quality hydropneumatico, since I've personally replaced 5 of them for friends here, all less than 3 years old.

Finally, if you have an existing plumbing system, it seems wise to add a hydropneumatico with only low pressure initially: 25 psi? I've seen 4 homes water systems spring multiple new leaks that did not exist with years of successfully operating lower tinaco-only pressures. Many Mexican plumbers make non-standard connections (rubber and clamps or joining two PVC pipes with a slightly larger piece of Sewer and Drain PVC and lots of glue), and these non-standard connections work fine with tinaco-only pressure, but fail when pressurized by a pump and ballast tank system: imagine finding dirt and grit plugging toilet valves and washing machine inlet valves, due to a new underground leak under a cement and tile hallway.

Hydropneumatico systems also eventually suffer from the hardness of our Yucatecan water: check valves that eventually don't seal due to sarro causing the pump to cycle every 10 - 20 minutes and ballast tank corrosion problems that ruined 3 different tanks. Much Luck!
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/

sparks

Jun 18, 2010, 6:32 AM

Post #9 of 10 (3002 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Tinaco or pressure water system

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>>>> I'm confused about why the question is an either/or proposition? Why not install both, so the tinaco can be a steady supply of water to the pump?

The in-ground cistern/aljibe supplies the pump and is much larger than the tinaco. I think I was looking for feedback on types of pressure systems rather than either/or

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

YucaLandia

Jun 18, 2010, 9:43 AM

Post #10 of 10 (2981 views)

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Re: [sparks] Tinaco or pressure water system

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My apologies, I think of cisterns as being filled with rainwater or trucked water etc, supplies that only irregularly fill the cistern. It seems that your aljibe is filled by the city or gets enough from other supplies to remain consistently full. If your city water pressure is constant and flow sufficient to supply a hydropneumatico pump, and your plumbing system is relatively new and able to handle the higher pressures of a hydropneumatico, then the combination is all good!

Using a pump pressurized system also helps most on-demand style water heaters turn-ON more easily, making the later addition of an energy efficient on-demand heater easier.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jun 18, 2010, 10:49 AM)