Forums > Specific Focus > Home, Garden & Construction in Mexico

robt65

May 23, 2013, 11:34 PM

Post #1 of 9 (1854 views)

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Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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I am installing a 10,000 ltr., vertical in ground Rotoplast fresh water tank and pressure system for our new expansion to our home.

My construction guy for this particular part of the project says all I need to do is build a wall of stone or block around the tank as well as a steel rebar reinforced floor and top cover from concrete. He says we should have about a six inch open space between the tank itself and the vertical wall around the tank.

I am just a little concerned about the tank expanding with all that water in the tank, and that without a good screen clean sand and pea gravel mix between the tank and the tank wall, the tank could wind up bulging. Has anyone had any experience of doing such a project and if so, how did you install yours?

Has anyone down here installed a good water pressure system, with a pressure tank? If so what names of pumps, pressure tanks and switches as well as pressure valves did you use in your project? I need some brand names that folks here know are of good quality, and will last a while. I don't really want to have to redo any part of this new cistern and pressure system after only a couple of years.

Thanks,

Robt65
Queretaro.

(This post was edited by robt65 on May 23, 2013, 11:36 PM)

morgaine7

May 24, 2013, 7:03 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1833 views)

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Re: [robt65] Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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http://www.bombasrowa.com/...pais=4&idioma=14
In 2008 I bought a tankless "on demand" pressure pump manufactured by this Argentinian company, and it has been completely trouble-free for the past five years. Mine is the small model Tango SFL9 for a tinaco, but you'll see that there are also models for cisternas. It came with electrical connections and complete installation instructions, which my plumber dutifully took home and read, then followed for the installation. Since my pump sits on the roof, in line between the tinaco and water heater, it required a metal box for protection against the elements. The plumber had it made at low cost by a local metalworker.

No one here was familiar with this type of system, and everyone told me I was crazy for not getting a traditional tank model, which I didn't want. For about two years my plumber assumed every time I called him that it was about the pump, but it never was. The products aren't cheap, but by buying mine from a Rowa vendor on Mercado Libre, I saved 2,000 pesos off the local retail price, which put it at the same cost as a tank system.

My cisterna (much smaller, I think 2,800 liters) is a Rotoplas, with housing constructed as your guy says, but I don't know if it has the sand/gravel filler. It was installed in 2006/2007 and also has been trouble free. An external 1/2 hp "Rotobomba" pump carries water from the cisterna to the tinaco. It's showing its age and needs priming once in a while, but those cost only a few hundred pesos to replace.

Kate

sparks

May 24, 2013, 7:19 AM

Post #3 of 9 (1825 views)

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Re: [robt65] Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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Both I and my neighbor have the same sized blue Rotoplas tank in the ground built the way your guy suggests. The exception is we put gravel and sand at the bottom for drainage. Also is it going to be flush with the ground or a little above. My guys mis-measured and my top ended up a foot above ground. Turned out well as we made a box, tiled it and made a patio out of it with palapa over. Elevated a bit doesn't allow water to run in.

Those tanks are made to stand alone and will not change shape when full. Had mine for over two years and no problem

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

morgaine7

May 24, 2013, 7:46 AM

Post #4 of 9 (1815 views)

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Re: [sparks] Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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My neighbor has the opposite problem, with the top of her cisterna set so far below ground that even a tall person has to lie face down to reach the lid of the Rotoplas. The tank was installed (by a previous owner) directly into the sandy, rocky ground with no block or other lining as best anyone can tell. It appears that the tank does expand a little, because she has had trouble with leaks. So far they've been able to patch them, but the fix is temporary and she 'll likely end up having her patio and garden dug up to re-do the whole thing. Much better to do it right the first time.

Kate

AlanMexicali

May 24, 2013, 7:49 AM

Post #5 of 9 (1813 views)

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Re: [sparks] Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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In Reply To

Same here, exactly as you said only ours is under the garage floor and level. I have considered a hidroneumatica system for the tinaco but so far tolerate the pressure pump coming on even if a toilet is flushed the last 1 1/2 years. By the way Sparks the lawn is looking great now.

The Altamira tanks with any brand of pump that meets the specs., pressure release valve, sensor switch module and shutoff valves and fixtures cost $13,800 pesos for our 5 bathroom house here they quoted me and can be installed in one day by me. Call me lazy.

http://www.arisa.com.mx/hidro.html

I think it is model SKY 85, I have the quote somewhere. here.

robt65

May 24, 2013, 9:00 AM

Post #6 of 9 (1798 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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Hello Kate & Sparks,

Kate: That is an impressive tankless pressure system for sure. In our existing home and with the new addition we will finally end up with probably a total of 14 sources of tap or spigot outlets (three bathrooms, outside spigots, laundry, Jacuzzi etc.), using the math this should be driven by a 1 HP pump from the cistern and using a 44 gallon tank for pressure this should be about right. Since every time one uses any water, in the on demand system, this would require a constant on / off activation of the pump daily, where the tank system should only require about four or five times a day activation. I have read both opinions on various theories about heavy on / off use for the water pressure pumps and where there are definitely two schools of thought, it just makes more logical sense to me to have a tank system for our home's use, as I can see the real possibility of an early pump failure with a constant on /off operation. I think that on a smaller operation (maybe such as yours Kate), you have a good solution, but with our home having a total of four adults and two youngsters (excluding visitors) full time living here and all the washing that goes on as well as the daily showers, and garden use, A tank system would be a better use for us.

While a good design in installation of your tank above ground by a foot or so is a good idea for your reasons stated Sparks, I am still contemplating that. I really do like the idea of a raised platform over the tank manhole. I had thought of creating a slab cover for the tank installation (such as in a septic system design) and then we were going to build a cantera stone la noria. I will make some benches for sitting around part of the (faux) well which will house the pressure system tank, pump etc. Several NOB poly tank companies make a snap on collar for in ground tanks which allows the tanks to be well below ground and yet have a raised man hole for servicing . I really like that idea, but apparently Rotoplast doesn't make such a "snap-on" collar. So as you suggest we have to get somewhat creative.

Kate, I agree with you. I have looked a long time at the Rotoplast tank reinforcing rib design and just really do not believe there will be enough strength of the tank walls, to prevent distortion of the tank over time when full. I am leaning toward putting a good quality screened sand / pea gravel mix between the outer wall of the Rotoplast tank and the inner wall of the tank containment vault for more stability of the Rotoplast tank sides when fully loaded.

Thanks to both of you for the input.

Regards,
Robert

(This post was edited by robt65 on May 24, 2013, 9:03 AM)

sparks

May 24, 2013, 9:39 AM

Post #7 of 9 (1788 views)

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Re: [robt65] Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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We poured a rebar reinforced lid with a registro lid embedded on the ground next to the tank. Then with much trouble lifted it on top. At that point is was round but latter made a box out of it.

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

YucaLandia

May 25, 2013, 7:22 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1750 views)

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Re: [robt65] Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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Good story and good plans.

Another minor consequence of using the on-demand pump system arises when/if the system's big check valve (blocking water flow back into the tinaco/source) starts to leak a little or when the toilet sapos / toads start to leak a little over time.

These little nuisance leaks often go un-recognized in pressure-tank systems, as the pressure bleeds down slowly - causing the pump to cycle only infrequently. With the tankless on-demand pump systems, the pumps can start to cycle on-off frequently and rapidly - which is hard on the pump motor. With the hard water across much of Mexico, leaks at the sapos and check-valves are really common.

Fixing the small leaks is a good thing, but if the crazy-cycling starts while you are out traveling for a few days, then you may return to a burned-out pump. (as happened to a friend here) We have our friends shut off the power to these on-demand systems whenever they travel. This causes hassles if you have a gardener trying to water plants or a cleaning-person who wants to use water.

It sure is fun to hear your (Robt65)'s on-going stories and plans!
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

robt65

May 25, 2013, 8:14 PM

Post #9 of 9 (1721 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Installing a 10,000 ltr Rotoplast in ground cistern with pressure system.

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Thanks Steve,

It is a system that I used at my place in rural Kentucky. I had a deep water well, used a submersible jet pump and sent the water to a 1200 gallon tank in part of the garage, then to a pressure tank system complete with pressure pump, gauge et al. It was a pretty good system. I never had any trouble with any components for the several years I owned the property. The only difference is that was an above ground tank and that tank was constructed differently with a good cross rib design that gave the sidewalls plenty of support with a full load of water in it. We'll see how this in-ground tank will work.

I plan on using Sparks idea of leaving a foot or so above ground and then build a large concrete collar around that with a lid, which will be the false floor of a la noria built out of the same black cantera stone that our barda is made from. The cantera stone well will also hold the pressure tank and pressure system. I will cover that with a galvanized tin cover and divert any rain water out side of the stone walls of the well, install sufficient louvered vent plates for cooling the pressure tank motor etc.

Regards,
Robt65