MexConnect.com Forums: Specific Focus: Home, Garden & Construction in Mexico: Heating your home in winter: Page 2

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arbon

Jan 25, 2003, 10:39 PM

Post #26 of 42 (798 views)

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Re: [pedro] Heating your home in winter

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Pedro,are you talking about a "wood" burning insert (with fan),or a gas/propane/butane insert with fan?

(This post was edited by jean on Jan 30, 2003, 5:00 AM)

PeggyS

Jan 26, 2003, 1:02 AM

Post #27 of 42 (783 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Heating your home in winter

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Everyone I know uses wood in the fireplace, so much more natural and cozy than using the gas fireplaces. A darling little burro brings the firewood around and the people across the street buy it all before I get a chance, but a truck also comes around frequently. We ran out of wood and saw a sign across from Memo (vet and pet store) on Constitution around the corner from the P.O., saying Firewood For Sale. He was out of wood, but directed us to the last doorway before the carretera going up Juarez. 20 nice pieces of wood for 20 pesos, about two bucks. So we gave him another 20 pesos and now have a lovely pile of wood next to the fireplace. It's aged and bug-free. You don't get that lovely roaring fire with gas, or the warmth.

sparks

Jan 26, 2003, 6:03 AM

Post #28 of 42 (763 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Heating your home in winter

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"Although wood-burning fireplaces have aesthetic appeal, they may actually remove more heat from a house than they produce."

http://www.eren.doe.gov/...o/refbriefs/bc5.html

Seems like this could almost be a subject for the construction forum. I don't know if you can generalize about the typical fireplace design in Mexico ... but chances are, they are not efficient. I'd also be concerned about the ecolological effects of woodcutting in an arid/semi-arid area ... especially where wood burning may be the only source of heat for many of the poorer people. Would be interesting to know if there ever were forests in the area.

Georgia

Jan 26, 2003, 7:03 AM

Post #29 of 42 (759 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Heating your home in winter

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Esperanza, I think your right about feeling the cold after a few years. This year up north it has been bitterly cold. We've been back here (NY) for three weeks and most of the time the temperatures were in the single digits or teens. Yesterday it felt like spring. The temperature? 21 degrees! The carwash was backed up and everyone was out. Amazing.

I think we'll probaby reopen one of our closed fireplaces at our home in El Chante onces we're there full time. I can see that what might feel like springtime the first year, will seem downright uncomfortable after I get coddled by the warmth.

esperanza

Jan 26, 2003, 7:28 AM

Post #30 of 42 (777 views)

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Re: [sidandsara] Heating your home in winter

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Based on my experience of my own fireplace and listening to the experiences of others with theirs, my uneducated opinion is that the amount of heat that is thrown into the room appears to depend more on the cant of the back wall of the fireplace than on any other thing. My friends who own new or newly-remodeled houses complain that all the heat from the fire goes up the chimney, and all of their fireplaces are built with a back wall that meets the floor of the fireplace, as well as the back wall of the chimney, at a 90 degree angle. My 70-year-old house has a fireplace that is built with the back wall, at the top where it joins the chimney, angling slightly out toward the room. It throws quite a bit of heat into the house; my uneducated opinion is that the angle helps. A friend who recently built a house with a fireplace with that style angled back wall also has the same experience. I am willing to be wrong, however.

The load of wood that I bought for 400 pesos was stacked approximately 3 meters long by 1 meter high. Is that a cord?

I have an iron grate (a gift from a friend) for the logs to rest on in the fireplace; some people use bricks rather than a grate. Some people throw kerosene on the logs before lighting; some people have a gas line running into the fireplace and start the wood fire with gas. I use crumpled newspapers and ocote underneath the logs.

I also think that building and tending a wood fire helps warm me up. :^ )

I don't have a clue what an insert is.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Uncle Jack

Jan 26, 2003, 9:53 AM

Post #31 of 42 (739 views)

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A cord of wood is

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http://www.ncforestry.org/docs/Products/cord.htm

pat

Jan 26, 2003, 10:35 AM

Post #32 of 42 (712 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Heating your home in winter

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In Reply To

I don't have a clue what an insert is.

An insert is a woodburning (or could be gas too) stove that fits into the open fireplace. It improves efficiency from about 10% to 70% (so the manufacturer says). Much more heat is radiated into the house, and less heat goes up the chimney.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=fireplace+insert

jennifer rose

Jan 26, 2003, 1:02 PM

Post #33 of 42 (690 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Heating your home in winter

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The construction and design of the fireplace plays a great deal into how much heat it will throww off. Not every albanil is a pro at fireplace construction; among the fraternity of albaniles there are usually a few guys who specialize in building fireplaces. I've seen some fireplace which looked fantastic but did nothing but smoke up a room, and I've seen some ugly but very effective fireplaces. There is a magic formula (don't ask me what it is) for the dimensions and depth which makes all the difference in the world.

Dampers are not the norm in most Mexican fireplaces.

There are a lot of other considerations in determining how much heat a fireplace -- whether it's gas- or wood-fueled -- will generate. The size of the room, ceiling height, proximity to doors and windows, contents of the room, size and location of the fireplace, and orientation of the house are just some of the factors to keep in mind.

The gas v. firewood debate is a good one. Do you want the crackling romance and charm of a "real" fire, or do you want the efficiency of gas logs? Who's going to stack the firewood, build the fire, and clean out the ashes? Are you concerned about the effect of smoke and burning wood upon artwork, furniture, rugs and carpeting? Does someone in your household have allergies which could be affected by burning wood? Do you intend to sit all evening by a roaring fire, or do you want the instant gratification of lighting the gas logs and shutting off the gas?

Personally, I find gas logs with a ceiling fan to be the most effective. And for me, it seems less costly than buying firewood (the prices quoted by others seem expensive to me, because I forage for tree branches in my own yard). But your mileage may vary.

Baseboard heaters and heat lights are good choices for the bathroom.

My advice is to forebear on buying a fireplace liner until you've moved here and experienced a winter, using the fireplace in your new home. If you've come from a home with central heat back in the Old Country, I'm sure you'll spend more than just few moments looking for that phantom thermostat. You may find yourself spending more time in one room that just seems warmer than the others when you're by yourselves at home during the cold season, making another room the focus of activity during the warmer months, and using yet another part of the house for company.

Bucky

Jan 27, 2003, 8:29 AM

Post #34 of 42 (663 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Heating your home in winter

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All good advice, and urging experience after a winter is well taken. Now, our house in Ajijic has no heat. We want some kind of heat and I have a preference for wood fireplaces but not the concrete type but the free standing cast iron (potbelly or franklin styles). They tend to heat up and radiate a lot of heat that otherwise is usually lost.

My question is rather than bringing one with me, considering the weight, are there ironmongers there that can make one? Need good close fitting joints so smoke doesn't leak out but heavy guage cast iron. With some caulk and gasket material you can make one fit well.

tomgibbs

Jan 27, 2003, 11:22 PM

Post #35 of 42 (630 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Heating your home in winter

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A cord is a reasonably well staked stake of wood 4 feet high x 4 feet wide x 8 feet long. It is a volume measurement, but the species of wood and the moisture content are major factors in determining heat value. Hardwood species contain about 8000 btu's of heat energy per pound when dried down to 20% moisture content. The heavier hardwoods thus have their btu's packed in tighter space.

In short one desires is to have as many pounds of firewood at as low a moisture content as possible to do there job. Wet wood uses much of its own energy to lift the water vapor up the chimney.

To string along to other posted issues: A good fire feeds just enough oxygen into the fire at just the right places to complete combustion (a blue flame). More air than what is need cools the fire and is heated home air that is just being run up the chimney. It is the same effect as having a window open - it ventilates the house. All air used by a fire(place) will be replaced by cool air from outside (drafts) moving in through loose fittinging doors, windows, etc. Thus for efficiency, controlling the air to a heating fire is essential, unless one is just burning it for pleasure. The very best designs achieved in fireplaces can produce no more than 15% efficiency - 85% of the energy is lost up the chimney; and very few fireplaces meet these standards. Old fashioned cast iron stoves beat this every time producing 25% efficiency, faster to warm up and radiate, but not so atmospheric. Air tight stoves of the 1970's average about 50% efficiency, and the newer designs with classy air delivery systems can put 80% or more of the btu's into home heat. That's a lot less pressure on the forests.

But then again, this is Mexico! In many cases just choosing to stand in the sun instead of the shade solves the problem. The fact that the major building materials are masonry and mass materials provides most of the solution. Those that can afford design and materials should be able to handle almost all of their needs right there. Poor people are stuck with poorly fitting steel doors, and other natural problems that can help cool off a house more readily. Sweaters and jackets get them through. For perspective, in the Midwest temperatures can very through the seasons from -30 below zero to 100 degrees F. - that's 130 degrees variation. Frankly speaking, Siberia can't beat that by much. In Central Mexico that might be a 50 degree variation, or less. A sweater and a few cups of hot oatmeal atole with canela can make cool evenings memorable in Cental Mexico.

tomgibbs

Jan 28, 2003, 6:44 AM

Post #36 of 42 (602 views)

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Post deleted by jean

tomgibbs

Jan 28, 2003, 8:00 AM

Post #37 of 42 (618 views)

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Re: [tomgibbs] Heating your home in winter

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As this is the construction forum and wood heat has taken such an emphasis, here are some answers.

If wood is available at all in an area in Mexico, wood heat can be a good solution for those who insist on heat. But, for other than recreation, one would have to start from the ground up. North American mythology is heavily linked to the fireplace/hearth, which was traditionally a massive stone chimney located on an end wall. Western Europeans came from a more moderate climate than most of North America offered, in really the what could be interpreted as the late Middle Ages. This is no place to look for technological solutions to heating.

An earthen or masonry chimney is a lot of adobe, brick, stone or whatever, all hot; and mostly a relatively good conductor. A foot of stone has the insulation value of roughly a sheet of glass. Placed on an end wall, a chimney is heating the outdoors in two ways. Place a chimney in the middle of the house and you've got some generous tons of mass radiating warmth, the same principle as an adobe house picking up solar heat during the day and storing it over the night. It a big thermal mass with a time delay. Add a door and a damper and you have about as efficient and clean burning a heater as a modern high-tech gas furnace, yielding close to 90% of the used btu's as home heat. Essentially an oven heating rocks. Take a look at the dome shaped adobe oven for baking bread and roasting carne (i.e. cabrito asada) behind some ranchitos, put it in the middle of a house, add a light weight metal chimney with a damper (no high weights for earthquakes), and a piece of fired clay like a comal to close up the door, find a baby goat while the woman of the house (or visa versa) kneads dough for bolillos, and you've got a $150 peso solution to long baffling problem, complete with some darn good food. The Mexican neighbors will be filled with admiration for one's ingenuity and generosity during the evening fiesta. With the leftover saved money one could pay for some live music. By this time you better turn off the heat, if you can; because with 10 or more people in your house you don't need heat. That many folks will put out 15,000-20,000 btu's just being alive, if they dance, just open the windows. For a more permanent solution one could save the $150 pesos and just have 10 kids.

(This post was edited by tomgibbs on Jan 28, 2003, 8:06 AM)

keith

Jan 28, 2003, 3:28 PM

Post #38 of 42 (608 views)

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Re: [sidandsara] Heating your home in winter

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my in-laws in chihuahua use gas heaters in the winter. In urique we have some wood stoves, but the winters have been mild enough for many years that we´ve only fired one up maybe 3 or 4 times in the last 8 or 9 years. For nights, you need two good cobijas (blankets), una nueva para arriba, una vieja por abajo.

sidandsara

Jan 28, 2003, 8:32 PM

Post #39 of 42 (589 views)

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Re: [keith] Heating your home in winter

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Maybe a nice electric blanket!

Linda

Brad.

Jan 28, 2003, 8:41 PM

Post #40 of 42 (587 views)

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Re: [keith] Heating your home in winter

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That cobija con tripas usually does the trick.

machi

Jan 28, 2003, 9:14 PM

Post #41 of 42 (572 views)

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Re: Post deleted by jennifer rose

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Venganse a Urique donde el dilema es como enfriar la casa. La pusimos debajo de la la tierra.
Aqui no llegas con un mentado beezer.
Alguien traduzca esto para Pedro.

http://home.attbi.com/~ramsay52/home.html

Jan 29, 2003, 8:38 PM

Post #42 of 42 (565 views)

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Re: [tomgibbs] Cord Of Wood

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Hey Tom,a cord of wood is 16ft. long,4ft. high & 2ft. wide.Good size stack huh.

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