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sandykayak


Sep 3, 2003, 2:37 PM

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Fault Lines & Building Inspection

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I recently found out that there is a fault line along the north side of Lake Chapala. (How come we don't read about this anywhere? Or am I not reading the right books?)

Apparently, it runs south of the carretera (not sure how much comfort this is if there IS a quake).

Therefore, it is really important to have a "building inspector" (or whatever equivalent there is) to check the property out carefully.

Perhaps some local residents can give more info ref this.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


(This post was edited by jennifer rose on Sep 3, 2003, 7:19 PM)



TomG

Sep 3, 2003, 7:01 PM

Post #2 of 6 (4425 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Property values in Mexico

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You ought to slide this question over to the Construction Forum. I, for one, would be very interested in a good earthquake construction airing.


sandykayak


Sep 4, 2003, 5:32 AM

Post #3 of 6 (4408 views)

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Re: [TomG] Property values in Mexico

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good point, tom, but I didn't know about that forum cos I'm not at that point. PLUS the majority of people are on the more general forums and are unaware of this "detail" that I heard about on one of the local forums here.

if the moderator wants to move it, fine. I just would like to find out more about it.
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque


TomG

Sep 10, 2003, 9:38 AM

Post #4 of 6 (4368 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Property values in Mexico

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I was really hoping some folks would jump in here with some experience with earthquake zone masonry construction. Never having built in such zones I'm am torn between structural rigidity and flexibility as the best approach. Masonry construction certainly is not on the path of possibilities toward flexibility.

It is not very likely that folks can float houses like Frank Lloyd Wright did with the Imperial Hotel in Tokyo in the '20's - or is it? Is that the answer, making a foundation so strong and rigid that the ground slides underneath it? In that case the smoother the sides and bottom of the foundation are the better. This doesn't account for why large thick-walled stone churches have stood so well.


sfmacaws


Sep 10, 2003, 9:48 PM

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Re: [TomG] Property values in Mexico

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I'm not a contractor but I have lived in earthquake country most of my life. In general, masonry buildings are not where you want to be in a big one. I worked for many years in a 7 story concrete block building (SF Hall of Justice) that was built in the 1960's. It has actual rollers underneath it to allow the building to move with an earthquake. I was on the 7th floor during the Loma Prieta earthquake and let me tell you, that building does roll! Meanwhile, across the street a brick warehouse became immediate rubble killing several people on the street in front of it. I watched as it's outside wall peeled off like a wave breaking.

I spent the next week or so, driving and walking around the marina district of SF for 12 hours a day. This area was badly damaged in the quake. Most of the buildings are masonry with a single floor over a sometimes partially sunken garage. There were other reasons that this area sustained so much damage, it is built on sand dunes for one, but the type of construction also played a major role. With the back of the garage sunk into the ground and the front at grade level and a lot of nothing in between, the supports torqued during the quake. In effect, twisting the house off its support and often collapsing the living area into the garage.

We have used plywood to strengthen the corners of our house in the basement. Doing that and anchoring the house to the foundation is the first major thing you can do for any house in an earthquake zone. What you want is for the whole house to move with the quake but for the corners to be strong enough to prevent it from torquing and for the house to move with the foundation, not move off of it.

>>Is that the answer, making a foundation so strong and rigid that the ground slides underneath it? <<

I think that is what you DON'T want, if the foundation is too rigid and can't flex with the ground you will have more damage. If you think of your house as a ship on a wave, as long as the deck stays attached to the hull the whole thing can ride the wave. If it's anchored to the bottom, it will pull it apart. I don't think it is possible to build a house strong enough to resist an earthquake, the ticket is to build one that is supple enough to ride the quake.

The rollers built into the Hall of Justice were the latest technology in the 1960's. I don't know how they do it now but I know that it is the same principle still being used in the skyscrapers of downtown SF. Those suckers were whipping back and forth in the quake, I wouldn't have enjoyed the ride but they did come through it pretty well.


Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán




mkdutch

Oct 2, 2003, 10:28 AM

Post #6 of 6 (4272 views)

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Re: [sandykayak] Fault Lines & Building Inspection

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It seems to me there is kind of a Catch 22 situation in the Lakeside area. Yes, there are faults in certain areas and it is in a geolocially-active area - relatively close to the Rim of Fire on the coast. So one would think that a Japanese-style, lightweight architecture would have evolved. But it didn't and most of the available construction materials and local building skills foster masonry/rock construction.

So what's a body to do?...8^). I asked a question on this forum some time ago, wondering why Wright's Imperial Palace solution wouldn't work. A very helpful private reply said it wouldn't work well, as the weight of exterior masonry/stone walls require too large a footing; a simple floating slab won't work. Hard to argue with logic like that.

As a practical matter, most builders have tried to modify older methods by introducing rebar and steel-reinforced posts and lintels to frame around wall sections and openings built of masonry or other hard materials. How well that is done, as well as the strength and type of mortar used can have a significant effect on the overall strength of the structure. The better ones weld all of the steel interconnecting points into a more solid, rigid framework, IMO.

No method is perfect or totally cost-effective. Nor can one predict the timing or severity of earthquakes. So unless alternative "safer" alternatives become available, one needs to "when in Rome, do as the Romans do". And resign yourself as our smart hosts do, to fate, and enjoy your life.

But I dragged some of my culture with me when heading south of the border: I didn't live on a flood plain in the USA, and I didn't buy a home on a fault at Lakeside. So locating a home that has stable ground under it and is not vulnerable to landslides from above is probably the best advice one can give. You can get some pretty good info in this area by just talking to local residents as well as realtors. Availability of potable water and the cost and quality of services as well as who built (or will build) your future home is also very important. Buena Suerte!...Dutch
 
 
 
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