Forums > Specific Focus > Home, Garden & Construction in Mexico

jmkelley

Aug 14, 2005, 1:50 PM

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Electrical Service

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I own a small house in La Penita, fan boxes get hot when controls are set on high indicating need to upgrade the service entrance. The wire size also may be inadequate. How involved will be obtaining a permit for this and where does anyone suggest I begin?

Ex was a commercial electrican for some years, now deceased. I have helped him pull wire in two houses and understand the process in the USA.

Rolly / Moderator

Aug 14, 2005, 2:25 PM

Post #2 of 10 (2576 views)

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Re: [jmkelley] Electrical Service

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In most places, remedial work such are wiring changes do not require a permit.

It is quite possible that the problem does not lie in your house. You may have low voltage in the supply lines on your street. This is quite common. Buy or borrow a volt meter. Measure the voltage at your service entrance. If it is low (less that 110) you have a problem you cannot solve. If it is OK, then measure at your fan while it is running (not easy to do). If the readings are the same, or nearly so, the problem is not in your wiring. If the voltage at the fan is much lower than at the service entrance, hire an electrician to review your system and needs. Be forewarned that replacing wiring ranges from very difficult to impossible because of the use off flexible plastic conduit or, sometimes, no conduit at all.

Rolly Pirate

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(This post was edited by Rolly on Aug 14, 2005, 2:27 PM)

jmkelley

Aug 14, 2005, 2:35 PM

Post #3 of 10 (2572 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Electrical Service

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Thank you. I have sent your answer to the friend who will be helping me drive down who has had a commerical electrician's license in the past here. He knows what to do and will look at the situation for me. If we don't have to get a permit, then he can also do some work before he goes back home again.

Jane

Papirex

Aug 14, 2005, 4:34 PM

Post #4 of 10 (2560 views)

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Re: [jmkelley] Electrical Service

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Tell your friend to bring a 50’ fish tape with him. If your house does have some kind of conduit in it, he will need it if he is going to change the wire sizes. The conduit used here now is a kind of fluted plastic, hard to pass anything through it. In older homes, the conduit used looks like a rubber hose; no connectors are used at the J-boxes.

The “electricians” here never heard of the 360 degree rule, that dictates no more than 360 degrees of bends can be made in conduit between J-boxes. They make many small changes of direction in the conduits to match the groves they make in the bricks, etc. when they are roughing in the wiring. Often, there will be kinks in the conduit because of the material it is made of, the way it is installed, and the ignorance of the installers.

Even if the conduits used were not rough inside, and made of material conducive to high friction, it would be tough to get a fish through them, and then pull wire through it. I suspect that many of them often pull more wires into a conduit than the conduit is rated for. They seem to be unaware that electrical wiring in use generates heat.

We moved into a brand new house 3 years ago. The telephone and TV cable wires had not been pulled into the house. When the electrician showed up to install those wires, he tried to simply push the wires into the conduits. He didn’t succeed, so he went to a hardware store and bought some heavy gauge steel wire to try, using it as a fish. He still could not get it through the conduits to the house.

I had brought a 25’ fish with me when we moved here, I had used it in another house we lived in to pull TV and telephone wires between the first and second floors.

It was too short to pull the TV and telephone wires into the new house, but I inserted it as far as it would go, and managed to twist it until it snagged his wire. I pulled his wire into the house, and we used his wire to pull the telephone, and TV cable wires into the house. Luck played a big part in our success.

The electrician told me that he used to have a 50’ fish, but it was stolen off of one of his jobs. He said he bought it in The United States; he had never been able to find one anywhere in Mexico. He asked me to buy one for him the next time I went to The US. Now that Home Depot has a presence in Mexico, they may possibly sell fish tapes, or you might be able to order one from them.

Since your friend was licensed as a commercial electrician, he is probably familiar with Wiremold® http://www.wiremold.com/ Using Wiremold® would be a viable way to rewire a house here safely. The metal Wiremold is UL Laboratories approved as interior conduit. There is a similar Mexican product made of plastic available too. I don’t know the name of it or if fittings for mounting switches, receptacles, etc. are available the same as they are for Wiremold.

Show this reply to your friend.

Good luck, Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on Aug 14, 2005, 5:00 PM)

Esteban

Aug 15, 2005, 4:10 PM

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Re: [RexC] Electrical Service

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Wire mold is a cheap crappy way to do any extensive wiring. The best way to do it is to chip channels in the brick and concrete, put in new boxes, put in plastic conduit WITH connectors at the boxes and totally rewire with ground, proper neutral etc. Then, you do it right and don't have to deal with problems in the future. It's the right way to do it and in the end, will be cheaper. Sure it costs up front but it's worth every penny.

Cynthia7

Aug 15, 2005, 8:58 PM

Post #6 of 10 (2505 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Electrical Service

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I agree with Esteban..put it in the wall. They seem to be able to do that easily.. I had the wire stapled to the wall in the ruin I bought..I couldn't wait to correct that..Wire mold might be ok for a store room or garage...but in the house ..no way.

Papirex

Aug 16, 2005, 9:13 AM

Post #7 of 10 (2486 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Electrical Service

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It always seems strange to me that rank amateurs always feel qualified to make judgments about things that they have no experience with, or knowledge of. While in wall wiring is certainly preferable, and more esthetically pleasing, Wiremold ® is certainly a viable alternative. I have installed a lot of it during my career in the building industry.

Chipping grooves in the wall for conduit does require patching the plaster and repainting the rooms to complete the job. If a groove is chipped across one of the concrete columns or through one of the bond beams within the walls, it will weaken the structure.

Wiremold ® is not cheap, and it is certainly not crappy. It is UL approved, that means it has been tested at The Underwriters Laboratories and certified to meet the US National Electrical code standards for use as conduit. There is absolutely nothing to prevent running ground wires in it, except perhaps ignorance. There are fittings and adapters available to mount any type of device, switches, outlets, etc. safely, and legally. Building codes are based on public safety and health, and they have the force of law.

I have stated my qualifications here before, they are: As a young man I competed a 5-year union course to become a qualified plumber. The United States Department of labor, The State of California Department of labor, and my union sponsored the course.

The course was taught in the evening at a local college. It was accredited, and college credits were earned. Many subjects were taught that the average layman would not be aware of, surveying, metallurgy, etc; to become qualified and to receive an individual California plumbers license.

Yes, individuals must pass a test in most states to be licensed as a plumber, just as electricians must have their own personal Certificate of Competency. Many cities and counties also require local individual licenses too. They must be renewed annually. The licenses are usually about the size of a credit card. When I lived in California, I had a stack of them a couple of inches high. This is a matter of public safety; a plumber can kill you just as dead as an electrician can. It is illegal in most states to work as a plumber without an individual license.

After a few years working plumbing houses, schools, and commercial buildings, I took a test and changed my trade to pipe fitter, with a specialty in instrumentation. I have worked on every type of construction project from houses, commercial buildings; class A buildings, to industrial plants, the petro-chemical industry, and dams. (Lots of piping in a dam.)

I have held just about every position possible in my industry, apprentice, journeyman, foreman, general foreman, project manager, branch manager of a control company, and I had my own control company to do one job.

I know I am qualified to give advice on this forum, I worked for 47 years in the construction industry. I seldom do because many people prefer to state their own beliefs and prejudices rather than facts. They seem to reject facts and go with the way they wish things would work.

Have a great day, Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Esteban

Aug 16, 2005, 9:28 AM

Post #8 of 10 (2484 views)

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Re: [RexC] Electrical Service

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Whup dee doo chief.

In the construction industry you'll find there are many ways to do things and not everyone agrees. Wiremold is subject to damage because it sits on the exterior of the wall. Plus, it is very hard to attach it to a typical Mexican wall. It is flimsy and may be approved in the US, but it is also subject to oxydation in warmer humid climates. Are you thinking Romex for wiremold? If so, it's a rarity in Mexico. Not only is wiremold not used extensively in Mexico because it doesn't last, it's butt ugly. Just wait till you have to paint around it. I can just see a whole house done in wiremold! What a joke. You'd be better off going full on industrial and using exposed metal conduit.

(This post was edited by Esteban on Aug 16, 2005, 11:09 AM)

jmkelley

Aug 16, 2005, 4:14 PM

Post #9 of 10 (2456 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Electrical Service

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Thanks to all of you, I have copied and sent all of the comments to my friend who will have his own ideas as well.

Jane

mkdutch

Aug 31, 2005, 7:08 AM

Post #10 of 10 (2376 views)

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Re: [jmkelley] Electrical Service

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One small comment - you didn't say how the power was getting to your service entrance; via overhead or underground. Regardless, most Mexican homes haven't used a lot of electrical power, and as a result the line from the service in the street into a residential property is usually way under-sized for the amount of power consumption the typical NOB-type wants to use in Mexico. Even if you specify a certain-size cable, VERIFY what is installed - ideally, watch as it is put in. I turned my back during the first underground run into our home (actually, went to lunch) and later had to have it dug up and replaced with what I asked for in the first place. Also, if you are planning to have a water feature, such as a pool, spa and/or waterfall, put in a second meter and line to service those items. Electric rates/kwh escalate rapidly as usage goes up; adding a 2nd meter/service will save you a ton of pesos over time. Buena suerte..........Dutch