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j64

Feb 21, 2008, 7:33 PM

Post #1 of 13 (4656 views)

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Electric short

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Here's a very serious problem from a lady in downtown Chapala whose electric bill has TRIPLED over the last 5-months; this kind of financial cost is unbearble for just about all of us. She's done all the usual work to no avail, the 3rd electrician she had over had just retired from CFE after more than thirty years. No soap. Who can we send her to get more help?

IslaZina

Feb 23, 2008, 6:27 AM

Post #2 of 13 (4606 views)

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Re: [j64] Electric short

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Have you asked the electric company to check the meter for tampering and defects? Sometimes only they know which meters tend to go bad, etc. I had a similar problem last year that THEY resolved for me. That's why we pay them the big pesos.
http://islazina@blogspot.com

johanson

Feb 23, 2008, 10:26 AM

Post #3 of 13 (4588 views)

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Re: [IslaZina] Electric short

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The first thing I would do is look at her electric bill. I know a person whose consumption rate went up from an average of 245 KWH per month to an average of 255 KWH per month, annualized. This increase although only 4% placed my friend in a different tariff table, and while the total cost for 2 months at 245 per month was $861 pesos a year ago using the new tariff table my friend was assigned to (DAC) the bill this time for two months increased to $1,774 pesos.

So before one can properly answer your question, one must know whether the first bill was from tariff table 1 and whether the second bill is from the DAC schedule and the amount of KWHs consumed shown on both bills.

So in short, study your bill. It may be in Spanish but #s are #s and KWH are KWH when written in English and Spanish and words like "tarifa" are pretty easy to translate to tariff.

j64

Feb 23, 2008, 8:10 PM

Post #4 of 13 (4564 views)

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Re: [IslaZina] Electric short

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I had questioned the TRIPLE bill and she does not have a set for me of her paid bills, but the word TRIPLE is not double as in DAC. She claims before her trouble started she was below the DAC rate! Meter done, electricians done, meter dial spins. She has only two circuits, both spinning equally well. I am not qualified to answer this except to say, my friend, maybe you have had three electricians over -- and I am not qualified to make this comment -- but I would bet money there is at least one bad electric short and only an electrican can find it. My question is, if this is a fair question: who is the right man to look, where is he? (I dunno, sent her to Atty. Carol Bedford, Adriana Perez, maybe they could direct her?)

robrt8

Feb 24, 2008, 3:35 PM

Post #5 of 13 (4537 views)

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Re: [j64] Electric short

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Adding to Johansen's guess...
Does she have a tired fridge? Is she running an electric heater?
I've never heard of a short causing such an increase. If anything, it will blow a fuse or trip a breaker.
Have her turn everything off and check the meter. Is it still running?

j64

Feb 24, 2008, 10:15 PM

Post #6 of 13 (4518 views)

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Re: [robrt8] Electric short

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(She's had 3 electricians come in.) Not speaking Spanish myself, could we get info on what you suggest, a refrigerator short? Something like that, that would cause a bingo,(massive) consumption increase? It's because her bill's have been Tripled, this last one being the Third bill, not just doubled, that I wonder if we could help. I just really wonder what these electricians really do when they come out? She was given no suggestions and she has jumped all over the meter, and that's been done. (I am going to ask about the fridge in the morn. And, a neighbor lady has the same situation, a disaster for them both. If this goes on, what do they do: tear out the wiring and begin over? She's got two circuits, no one gave her a measure of variation of output between the two, possibly an oversight, again?)

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Feb 25, 2008, 5:05 AM

Post #7 of 13 (4510 views)

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Re: [j64] Electric short

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Even an incompetent electrician should be able to figure that out. Someone suggested earlier to shut all the breakers or pull the fuses and then look at the meter. It is possible to have a short to ground that's not big enough to trip the breaker. If that's the case, the meter will keep running but a lot slower. Wet concrete is a fairly good conductor but dry concrete is not. One can open up thre outlet boxes and check for a loose wire. Normally if that's the case the hot (energized) conductor and brass screw will show signs of burning. Someone also mentioned the refridgerator. It's possible if it has automatic defrost that the thermal switch that turns the heater on for the defrost cycle could be defective and keeping the heater on. That would be about the only thing that would happen to a refridgerator. The only other thing that could happen is if the refrigerator compressor was low on refridgerant forcing the refridgerator to run constantly to cool down. This of course you can check just by listening. Take note the time when it turns on and take note when it turns off. Then also note how long it takes to start up again. It should be approximatly on for 1/4 of the total for on time. Also the coils on the back or under the bottom can be clogged (I'm not saying you're a bad house keeper or your maid is) with dirt and dust. These coils should be cleaned and vaccummed at least once a year. Clogged coils can drag the efficiency down to where it runs longer to compensate for the lower degree of cooling.

It would be a good idea to turn things off one by one and look at the meter, then turn the next thing off and repeat until all lighting and electrical appliances are checked. If the meter still runs with every thing turned off call CFE to check the meter.

I hope this helped a bit. Good luck finding the solution.

Ron
Getting older and still not down here.

(This post was edited by Ron Pickering W3FJW on Feb 25, 2008, 5:11 AM)

j64

Feb 25, 2008, 8:23 AM

Post #8 of 13 (4493 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] Electric short

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Of course, the refrigerator was not timed for running, but it will be done today as she knows that her food freezes solid and quick at the LOWEST setting and she forgot to mention that until just now. Fridge is indeed, older. So, your thinking was very appreciated. Today, Atty Carol Bedford passed along a phone number for a young electrician, phychic of nature, at that, who fixed somebody's mystery short. Onward. Muy gracias.

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Feb 25, 2008, 8:30 AM

Post #9 of 13 (4491 views)

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Re: [j64] Electric short

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as she knows that her food freezes solid and quick at the LOWEST setting and she forgot to mention that until just now.

Well that eliminates the reefer then...
Good luck with the mystic electrician...& let us know how it turned out.
Getting older and still not down here.

j64

Feb 25, 2008, 3:35 PM

Post #10 of 13 (4471 views)

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Re: [Ron Pickering W3FJW] Electric short

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Yep, she checked her meter by leaving the fridge off awhile and the meter spun the same afterward and before on/off. But she will have a fridge guy
over to check why the lowest setting keeps the freezer very cold. The fridge is only 7-8 years old. More, later; now I thinks she needs the mystic over to see what's what. (Meanwhile I tried some arithmatic and if the fridge ran 24/7 instead of 15 min to the hour, that consumption would give CFE about all the bill shows.)

Ron Pickering W3FJW

Feb 25, 2008, 4:04 PM

Post #11 of 13 (4467 views)

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Re: [j64] Electric short

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The freezer section temperature should be around 0 degrees. It shouldn't be set to the lowest setting, The lower the setting is, the colder it gets. That will probably freeze the refrigerator box and all her vegetables. Temperature inside the refrigerator section should run at 35 degrees to 40 degrees. She just has the temperature set too low which would also increase her bill.
Getting older and still not down here.

(This post was edited by Ron Pickering W3FJW on Feb 25, 2008, 4:09 PM)

j64

Mar 12, 2008, 10:11 PM

Post #12 of 13 (4406 views)

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Re: [j64] Electric short Update

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It's time to put the question to bed, unless anyone knows what in fact, CFE really does when customers complain about their bills? You'll recall I brought up the fact that a user in downtown Chapala, got bills TRIPLE pesos. And so what. We thought maybe fridge. Alas, a small adjustment made. That was not, apparantly the culprit because here it is a couple weeks later and she will get a bill, actually, for what she felt she was truly using! A normal bill for her not a Triple, still a DAC, she agreed. She's happy. So WHAT happed for this corrected situation? I understand that her original meter was said to be faulty and a year and a half later which is now recent, CFE replaced the meter; Trouble again with consumption being very high.
With the new trouble, CFE again told her no problem with the meter and recently have come again for a second visit and said no problem. She is American, fluent Spanish, so she gets their message. And then, darn if the new bill is expected shortly and she's been told the-- happily acceptable -- pesos, a NORMAL bill for her! To sum up I guess we may agree, this lady mostly talked to the CFE attorney and the meter department -- so that all things equal, no matter what they say at first, second, third blush -- concentrate on the meter dept. and CFE attorney Why would this be? I am given to understand that many local consumers must complain about high meter readings. Could CFE be buying inferior units, untrained meter repair? Computer-office error? (About phantom loads and electricity losses, again: www.enviroharvest.ca/phantom_loads.htm)

j64

Apr 17, 2008, 10:54 AM

Post #13 of 13 (4356 views)

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Re: [johanson] Electric short

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Her CFE bill was triple rate, and she was furious. So, blah, blah, blah, here there and everywhere. The bill was wrong. Life was not good. And this ran on for at least six months, that I know of. Thanks to all of you who gave input to this problem that has been solved solved solved at last.
Complaintant had forgotten, she says, that a couple times when, as usual she went to pay her bill at the CFE office, she never sees her invoice, she says, a couple of payments were only 45-50P she now remembers. It was so good. Finally, they just gave her this wonderful input and she owes CFE money, and she knows electric use had gone unpaid although consumed. Case closed. Someone, the door, please. (Update: because she is part-commercial, she is finally two-metering her address, and go back to Tier 1 rate. Also, this story began Feb.)