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texican

Aug 27, 2010, 6:19 AM

Post #1 of 31 (3460 views)

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Texas to Chapala

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Just a quick note to let anyone interested. We drove from Laredo to Chapala yesterday. We took the Zacatecas route and made it in 12 hours. We stopped many times and got out and walked every time we filled up. Stopped and ate and never had any troubles at all. I was so paranoid from all the horror stories we had heard, but I would not worry about making this trip again.
Next time I will take the SLP route, the mountains were the roughest part and really slowed us down

Reefhound

Aug 27, 2010, 7:24 AM

Post #2 of 31 (3443 views)

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Re: [texican] Texas to Chapala

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The odds of anything happening to any one traveler have always been extremely low. We hear stories all the time about car jackings and shootings and it seems as if the odds of making it are low but we must remember that every day thousands of people pass through without incident.

On the flip side, we must also remember that the danger is real and the fact that we make it through without incident does not mean that it is safe. Complacency is as bad as paranoia.

Congratulations. You drew a white bean this time.

robt65

Aug 27, 2010, 10:24 PM

Post #3 of 31 (3357 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Texas to Chapala

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Kudos to you Reefhond on this point of view. You and I do not always agree, but we do this time! This is probably the most sane and realistic viewpoint I have read in a long time. Anyone at anytime can draw the black bean! That is life. As someone else on this forum said on one thread or another. . . . . Want to believe it or not, “this is a war” and it is only a luck of the draw if it is your turn or not. . . . . . No different really than getting out of bed in the morning and tripping on the bedside mat or slipping in the shower. "Same church . . . . Different pew" When it is your time. . . . it is your time. It is the man upstairs that runs the show.

Robt65

(This post was edited by robt65 on Aug 27, 2010, 10:25 PM)

Altahabana

Aug 28, 2010, 5:19 AM

Post #4 of 31 (3343 views)

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Re: [texican] Texas to Chapala

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I was so paranoid from all the horror stories we had heard, but I would not worry about making this trip again.

Since the violence escalated in February in the Tamaulipas-Nuevo Leon-Coahuila frontera there have been few--if any--reported incidents related to the narco insurgency (shootouts--carjacking) on the autopista between Monterrey and Laredo or on Hwy 40 between Monterrey and Saltillo, so you were more worried than you really needed to be. But events are unpredictable and things can happen at any time or any place.

We had not had an incident in NL for three weeks until a couple of hours after you posted. If you had been returning to Chapala from Nuevo Laredo around 11:30 am yesterday you would have gotten a personal snapshot of the war since the incident, in which two Zetas were killed, occured about two blocks from Coloso near the Holiday Inn Express. Reynosa has been experiencing a number of shootouts over the past three days and there is already a thread about the problems in Monterrey.

As things stand right now I would not worry about driving from Saltillo to the border on that route either. But I also would also realize that if I had a trip planned I would want to find out as much SPECIFIC information as I could about what is happening before I left.

(This post was edited by Altahabana on Aug 28, 2010, 5:21 AM)

texican

Aug 28, 2010, 5:59 AM

Post #5 of 31 (3334 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Texas to Chapala

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We stayed at the Holiday Inn express on Wed night before we left. There had been killings in NL on Wed. We researched it quite a bit before we left, Talked at length with the border patrol and federales. As they put it it can happen anywhere and at any time and there is no telling what will happen next. They did say that they had put up a sign that they would be leaving NL shortly and that when they did it would make history with what they would be leaving behind

Rolly

Aug 28, 2010, 6:29 AM

Post #6 of 31 (3326 views)

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Re: [Mexican] Texas to Chapala

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They did say that they had put up a sign that they would be leaving NL shortly and that when they did it would make history with what they would be leaving behind

Who is "they?" I'm lost in the pronouns.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Reefhound

Aug 28, 2010, 7:26 AM

Post #7 of 31 (3312 views)

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Re: [robt65] Texas to Chapala

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Just to clarify, I do not see it as entirely random luck. There is a lot of luck beyond your control but like much of life, there are things you can do to affect your luck. The kind of car you drive, the time of day you drive, the route you take, the number of stops you make, the people you talk to, the frequency of your trips, and so on.

Most of us probably know the story but for those wondering what's up with this black bean and white bean business, it comes from the infamous Black Bean lottery where Mexican Col. Huerta used a jar of beans to determine the fate of 176 captured Texas soldiers. We are drawing our beans voluntarily though. We can refuse to draw but most of us here decided that the benefits outweigh the risks. We just need to understand there are black beans in the jar and do our best to avoid them.

Reefhound

Aug 28, 2010, 7:30 AM

Post #8 of 31 (3311 views)

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Re: [texican] Texas to Chapala

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"They did say that they had put up a sign that they would be leaving NL shortly and that when they did it would make history with what they would be leaving behind"

Such an ominous and vague statement. You mean the Zetas will be leaving and will destroy the town and leave a wake of carnage? Or the army will be leaving? Either way, I cannot image "they" would have revealed their plans to a passerby.

mensamia

Aug 28, 2010, 8:12 AM

Post #9 of 31 (3294 views)

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Re: [robt65] Texas to Chapala

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Anyone at anytime can draw the black bean!

Yes, and some places have more black beans.
" to see the world in a grain of sand". W. Blake

Altahabana

Aug 28, 2010, 1:32 PM

Post #10 of 31 (3260 views)

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Re: [texican] Texas to Chapala

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There had been killings in NL on Wed. . . . . They did say that they had put up a sign that they would be leaving NL shortly and that when they did it would make history with what they would be leaving behind

You got a taste of what it is to like to live in a city of rumors without local media coverage of events like this. The City of Nuevo Laredo does have a twitter website that issues alerts about events that present a present danger or confirms/denys rumors that float around. Nothing happened Wednesday--at least not anything between the military and the Zetas that would have presented a danger to the public. But rumors abound. This is the City of Nuevo Laredo contemporary report of the event yesterday.

"NUEVO LAREDO SITUACION RIESGO ENFRENTAMIENTO ARMADO PARQUE FINSA ENTRADA COLOSIO, PROCEDER CON PRECAUCION. 11:52"

The Zetas have been leaving town for good every weekend since the end of July according to the SIGN which nobody has actually seen. And some poor nine year old was murdered by Zetas at least ten times in ten different colonias across the city one Friday last month. But when something significant actually happens word gets out. The twitter sites of the cities in the Frontera are a source. This forum which is run by the El Norte paper out of Monterrey is also popular. In addition to literally up to the second information, it also demonstrates how rumors spread and it has interesting commentaries by Mexicans on the issue.

http://gruporeforma.elnorte.com/...0&EstadoSelecc=2

norteño

Aug 28, 2010, 2:13 PM

Post #11 of 31 (3252 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Texas to Chapala

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It might be interesting to monitor what Twitter and the El Norte forum are reporting right now in Reynosa. The city has been in turmoil since about noon after reports (that seem to be true) of two grenades going off in a bar, with unconfirmed reports of deaths, followed by another report of an explosion in another part of the city, the report of a killing in the bus station and movements by sicarios all over the city.

It will never be really clarified what happened due to the lack of local news reporting. The newspapers from other parts of Mexico mainly rely on reports by the social networks.

#reynosafollow

(This post was edited by norteño on Aug 28, 2010, 2:15 PM)

robt65

Aug 28, 2010, 4:25 PM

Post #12 of 31 (3230 views)

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Re: [Altahabana] Texas to Chapala

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"But I also would also realize that if I had a trip planned I would want to find out as much SPECIFIC information as I could about what is happening before I left."

This is also a very astute statement. You can never tell when your the one to get the black bean . . . . but you can sure study up on current trends in this bloody war. "A rose by any other name is a rose" . . . . . . collateral damage by any unselected target or "mistake" is still spelled the same way TROUBLE and Possible injury or death. So do as Altahabana suggests . . . . I do . . . . If nothing else it makes you feel better and more alert to various conditions that you may otherwise not usually bother about. NO good reason and unproductive to be paranoid, but being educated and preparing is wisdom. People with wisdom and sound judgement seem to live longer than others.

Robt65

mexliving

Aug 28, 2010, 7:44 PM

Post #13 of 31 (3202 views)

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Re: [robt65] Texas to Chapala

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glad to see you made your trip to chapala safe .. but the reality is that it is dangerous to be driving on the highways through mexico.. so anyone that says its just luck or only if your involved in bad business.. well i dont think the american that was shot in the head and his passenger shot drew the black bean (he was down in mexico building bike trails for mountain biking) ... or the arizona retired rancher that had been coming down to mexico for the last 5 years and made it a point of brining goods for the orphanage...... well he was killed also (for his truck) .... plenty of people getting killed on the highways all over mexico.... or the mexican american family returning to the usa from visiting mexico where the father panicked when he encountered a fake check point..... and tried to safe his family..... getting his tires shot up and rolling the vehicle on its roof......(hermosillo)

so we just dont know what can happen or when it can happen..... even the day time problems.... no one wants to be in that situation.. but we all should realize that its very dangerous.....

the news in mexico is always sensored..... so the little that comes out is better then nothing.....

texican

Aug 29, 2010, 6:23 AM

Post #14 of 31 (3149 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Texas to Chapala

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Sorry, about the "they". I knew exactly who I was talking about. I guess I thought you could read my mind. I was terrible in school with english.
The they I referred to was the border patrol agents in Laredo. The border patrol agent said that the Zetas had put up a sign announcing that the Zetas were leaving town and that the Zetas would be leaving behind something big (the zetas did not say what) that the people of Laredo and the world would never forget.
Reefhound is so right about his post, I could not agree more.
Once again I am sorry for the way my post was written, I will do better next time

Rolly

Aug 29, 2010, 8:56 AM

Post #15 of 31 (3123 views)

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Re: [texican] Texas to Chapala

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Thanks for the clarification.

The Zetas did the same thing here in Lerdo a year or so ago. They announced that they were leaving and that they would leave a reminder so that we would never forget Los Zetas had been here. We knew they had stolen a lot of dynamite from the local quarry, so we were worried that city hall might blow up. Nothing happened.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

chinagringo

Aug 29, 2010, 9:18 AM

Post #16 of 31 (3117 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Texas to Chapala

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With all the damage that Los Zetas have caused virtually everywhere they have reared their ugly tactics, how could any affected area forget their presence if they left? Sure there might be a sense of relief but I would have a hard time believing that the "locals" would be willing to forget.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Brian

Aug 29, 2010, 10:32 AM

Post #17 of 31 (3093 views)

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Re: [chinagringo]

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Maybe the ZETAS are getting a bum rap??

http://borderreporter.com/...ueron-zetas-¿seguro/

(This post was edited by Rolly on Aug 29, 2010, 10:38 AM)

Reefhound

Aug 29, 2010, 11:23 AM

Post #18 of 31 (3082 views)

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Re: [Brian]

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Sorry, seems to me it's this reporter who is guessing and making baseless statements. He says there is no proof that the Zetas are responsible for these 72 migrants executed and that Calderon is guessing. That's not true. Some of the bad guys were captured including a juvenile who is in custody. They would have been interrogated and backgrounds checked.

There was a survivor which is how this was exposed in the first place. The survivor allegedly described how there were intercepted by 10 armed men in 5 vehicles, who repeatedly identified themselves as Zetas and wanted the migrants to work for them. This survivor is Ecuadoran and has no vested interested in any of these issues or politics or rivalries, no reason at all to lie, probably did not even know who "Zetas" were before this.

Now perhaps the survivor did not say any of this and authorities are making it all up. Or maybe it was another cartel trying to put the blame on Zetas. But there is no proof of this.

Brian

Aug 29, 2010, 12:00 PM

Post #19 of 31 (3069 views)

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Re: [Reefhound]

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Hi

I don't think that the purpose of his discussion was to exonorate the Zetas of this particular crime. Rather, he addressed what he thinks is a kneejerk phenomenon of automatically blaming the Zetas for every atrocity committed. The government has a track record of using scapegoats to quell public outrage for especially heinous crimes.

Reefhound

Aug 29, 2010, 12:29 PM

Post #20 of 31 (3059 views)

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Re: [Brian]

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Maybe so but in this instance he is simply wrong on the facts about there being no evidence the Zetas were responsible. Just because he is tired of hearing the Zetas blamed for everything is not grounds for denying the evidence. And his logic is plain twisted, saying that authorities cannot identify the motive because only 31 of the 72 have been identified. Nonsense. Of the 31 so far, all of them have been migrants. I'll bet most if not all of the remainder were also migrants. It's pretty apparent that this was a group of migrants and what purpose could there be to kidnap this large group of migrants if not to extort them, either for their money or their services?

Just because the evidence in most of the heinous acts of violence points to the zetas doesn't mean the govt is scapegoating the zetas. It could (and probably does) mean that the zetas are committing most of the heinous acts of violence.

Bottom line, the reporter has no basis whatsoever for doubting that it was zetas, the reporter lied about there being no evidence that it was the zetas, and the reporter offered not one shred of evidence or even credible logic that it was anyone other than the zetas. It's rather odd that a reporter would go so far out on a limb with so little to support it. Maybe they should check his bank statements for unusual deposits?

Reefhound

Aug 29, 2010, 12:34 PM

Post #21 of 31 (3057 views)

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Re: [Brian]

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"I don't think that the purpose of his discussion was to exonorate the Zetas of this particular crime. Rather, he addressed what he thinks is a kneejerk phenomenon of automatically blaming the Zetas for every atrocity committed. The government has a track record of using scapegoats to quell public outrage for especially heinous crimes."

If that's his purpose then he should report after an incident where the zetas were incorrectly blamed or there is substantial evidence that the government was wrong in whom it blamed. If he can't find such incidents then maybe he is wrong and the govt is accurate in who they blame?

Brian

Aug 29, 2010, 1:19 PM

Post #22 of 31 (3044 views)

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Re: [Reefhound]

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He wrote his article on the morning of August 27. Much of the evidence you reference was developed since he went to press.

Hound Dog

Aug 29, 2010, 2:49 PM

Post #23 of 31 (3020 views)

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Re: [Brian]

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don't think that the purpose of his discussion was to exonorate the Zetas of this particular crime. Rather, he addressed what he thinks is a kneejerk phenomenon of automatically blaming the Zetas for every atrocity committed. The government has a track record of using scapegoats to quell public outrage for especially heinous crimes.

A well made point Brian.

Reefhound´s repeated assertions that, somehow, the statement by the surviving kid from Ecuador that the assailants identified themselves as Zetas means that the assailants were, in fact, Zetas, simply demonstrates the naivete of foreigners writing from afar on a subject they fail to comprehend. Any faction in temporary or semi-permanent power in any internecine struggle anywhere in the world at any time may claim to be anyone they wish to claim to be and, it is absolutely typical of one faction or another in violent civil struggle to claim any other party to that struggle is anyone they wish to implicate in any violent act if they they think that information or misinformation will benefit them in the overall struggle. The fact, if it is a fact, that the assassins told the kid that they were Zetas proves:
* They were the Zetas.
* They were not the Zetas.
* Someone wants the rest of us to believe that it was the Zetas for any number of reasons unfathomable to the unitiated.
* It was one of several cartels or one of several factions of any one cartel.
* It was a gang of cayotes exacting revenge on helpless immigrants for any number of reasons.
* The authorities are lying.
* None of the above.

Anyone who thinks they know what is going on in Mexico or who the good guys versus the bad guys are is a candidate to purchase my shares in the Golden Gate Bridge which I purchased from the Bernie Madoff Foundation issued before Uncle Bernie became a ward of the state.

Reefhound

Aug 29, 2010, 2:52 PM

Post #24 of 31 (3018 views)

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Re: [Brian]

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In other words, he went off half-cocked about there being no evidence before there had even been time for the evidence to surface. Sounds like someone pushing an agenda rather than reporting.

Reefhound

Aug 29, 2010, 2:57 PM

Post #25 of 31 (3014 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog]

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Reefhound´s repeated assertions that, somehow, the statement by the surviving kid from Ecuador that the assailants identified themselves as Zetas means that the assailants were, in fact, Zetas, simply demonstrates the naivete of foreigners writing from afar on a subject they fail to comprehend.

Now don't go kookoo on us. I never said I knew what was going on or that the survivor's testimony means that it was positively Zetas, what I said (and try to read for comprehension) is that there is no evidence that it wasn't zetas and that there is no evidence or logical reason for the survivor to lie.

Disagree with me all you want but stop claiming I said things that I didn't say.

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