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grox13

Nov 11, 2009, 10:22 AM

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Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf? Camping?

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Good morning,

My wife and I (she’s Mexican) are driving from Denver to Guadalajara along the east coast of the Sea of Cortez. We have 16 days to make the trip so plenty of time to go slow and explore. We’re plan on camping here and there, inexpensive motels along the way, with a few nice hotels sprinkled in. I’ve never been to this part of Mexico so I don’t know what to expect as far as road conditions, camping areas, etc.

I want to bring my 04 TRD Tacoma with a roof top tent (not pictured) so that we’re ready for anything. However, my wife says that that they’re won’t be the need for four-wheel drive so we should save gas and take the 07 Volkswagen Rabbit with a cargo box and just pitch a tent when we’re camping. The VW gets around 30 mpg on the highway, the Tacoma, well, around 20 if I’m lucky.

What do you guys think? Recommendations?

Thanks,

Greg

(This post was edited by grox13 on Nov 12, 2009, 7:47 AM)

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chinagringo

Nov 11, 2009, 6:27 PM

Post #2 of 26 (6136 views)

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Re: [grox13] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Having recently completed a 16 day/3600 miles RT from Albuquerque, NM, I would recommend basing your decision on the following:
1) Which vehicle is the most comfortable to drive?
2) Which vehicle offers the optimum amount of space during your travels and to supplement with purchases?
3) While 4x4 may not come into play, which vehicle offers the best clearance for topes and cobblestone streets?

Gas at approx. $2.25USD per gallon is a relative issue and I personally wouldn't make a decision strictly based upon the fuel cost.

In your post, you indicate driving down along the coast to Guadalajara but not what your return plans are. If you are planning the most direct route north from Guadalajara (a trip we have made many times) - DO NOT PLAN TO GO INTO JUAREZ AND CROSS INTO EL PASO! Many of the reasons are obvious - traffic, crime and a headache crossing. South of Juarez, I would recommend taking the cutoff to the Santa Teresa, NM crossing.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

RickS

Nov 11, 2009, 8:58 PM

Post #3 of 26 (6111 views)

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Re: [grox13] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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That route will have you (mostly) coming down Hiway 15 which is a nice toll road. It does not, nor are there any continuous free roads that do, hug the coast. So to get to the Sea of Cortez, you will branch out from 15 at various spots. While I have not taken every road out to the beaches from 15, I agree with your wife that you will not need a four-wheel drive vehicle... anywhere.

If mileage is the only factor, as opposed to comfort, room, etc., I'd take the Rabbit. But don't expect 30mpg with a roof-top carrier on it.... those things cause quite a bit of resistance and will definitely affect your mpg.

Although I am a camper and RV'r and have not camped along all that route, I will offer this info.....

The 'east coast of the Sea of Cortez' is not well known for beaches and camping until one gets close to Mazatlan. That doesn't mean there are no beaches.... there certainly are.... but just not well known or established for tourist travelers nor easily accessible. Probably the first place to get over to the Sea is west of Hermosillo at Bahio Kino. It's about 7 hours from Nogales and offers many campgrounds in the area. After that would probably be around San Carlos, just west of Guaymas and only 4 hours south of Bahio Kino. San Carlos is quite developed and is more known for 'sailing' than beaches but it is a worthwhile stopping place in my opinion.

After that I don't know of any beach 'camping' areas until one approaches Mazatlan. The coast before then is more prone to be 'swampy' and quite frankly I would not venture off the toll road anywhere north or south of Culiacan as it is well known to be, lets say, not hospitable to outsiders or anyone who might look like they might be 'checking out the notorious and clandestine agricultural pursuits of the natives' if you get my drift. But just before Mazatlan and certainly within the Mazatlan area there are several campgrounds (some snowbird havens) on very nice beaches.

South of Mazatlan the toll road will take you 'inland' again and probably the next beach areas will be just before you get to the small city of Tepic, Nayarit. About 20 miles before there, turn west towards the cool coastal town of San Blas with a feel of the tropics. While there don't fail to take an 'expedition' in a small boat out into the swamps to see all kinds of birds and crocs. The guides are fantastic and the sights worth writing home about!

Continue south on that 2-lane coast road a few miles down to Santa Cruz and Platanitos, both small unassuming villages less about beaches and more about an unspoiled 'real' Mexican scene. Lastly continue to just past Las Vargas, turn west and go out to what used to be one of my most favorite 'hippie' beaches in that part of the country. It is (maybe I should say was) so cool and the setting is spectacular. I fear that it may have been developed since I was last there, but it is probably worth the short trip out there to see if not camp.

From there, and assuming you really are going to Guadalajara! you'll have to head east inland towards Compostela and pick up the toll road to Guad. But if you have some time, continue south down Hiway 200 from Las Vargas and check out the more established beaches or Penita de Jaltemba, Rincon de Guayabitos, Lo de Marcos, San Francisco (San Pancho) and Sayulita.... all within a stretch of less than 50 miles. (see Mexconnect feature articles about this stretch of beaches on the home page). Then backtrack to Las Vargas and on over to Guadalajara.

Have fun!

grox13

Nov 12, 2009, 7:13 AM

Post #4 of 26 (6077 views)

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Re: [RickS] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Thanks guys! Really love the suggestions. Keep ‘em coming!

The trip is still in what I would call the development stages, and of course, we don’t want to over-plan our route and leave a lot of room for discoveries along the way.

Generally, we’re planning on leaving Denver around 4:00pm (after work), driving 6 or 7 hours and stopping for the night south of Albuquerque.

The next day is a tough one. About 6 or 7 more hours to Nogales, get the necessary papers and hopefully cross the border around noon. We hope to make it to Guaymas for the night. From there, head south to Mazatlan for a night or two.

Then south to Tepic, west to the coast for 4 or 5 days. We plan on exploring the towns between Tepic and Puerto Vallarta (thanks for the suggestions Rick!). I’ve been to Sayulita a couple years ago but I flew into PV and bused it. Can’t wait to check out all the little towns and beaches near by.

My wife loves the old town of Puerto Vallarta so I’m sure we’ll be spending a couple days there, then over to Mescota. Although my wife hasn’t been to Mescota sense she was a little girl, this is the town where her family is from and she still has some distant relatives there. Were told there is even a little “cabin” that we’re welcome to use for a few days.

Then over to Guadalajara, which is where the plan starts to fall apart. We certainly welcome suggestions but basically, I think we’ll head north the same way (Hiway15) and see where it takes us. However, no plans to get anywhere close to Juarez.

As for which vehicle to take, I’m still torn but leaning toward the Rabbit. Its more comfortable, gets better millage and (and this is a BIG and) my wife doesn’t really like driving the truck. The only thing that scares me a little is the low profile tires but that can be changed before the trip.

We’re still a month away and I’m already getting excited!

esperanza

Nov 12, 2009, 7:28 AM

Post #5 of 26 (6073 views)

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Re: [grox13] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Do you have a general idea of your departure date? You said 'a little more than a month away'. I raise this question because of the holiday/vacation season in Mexico, which starts about December 15 and ends after January 1. Anybody who can get away, does get away--home to Mom's or the in-laws, to the nearest beach, etc. Traffic coming into Mexico from the USA can be extremely heavy during that season, so your border-crossing time expectations might need a change. In addition, in spite of various years of the Mexican government trying to put a stop to certain kinds of harassment at the border, foreigners and Mexican nationals alike have frequently experienced unusual mordida during the Christmas season. At times, officials refuse to allow all kinds of items to cross the border--those items are taken from the possession of travelers and, shall we say, diverted to other people.

Traffic can be very, very heavy, especially on highways leading to beaches, and drunk or at best, inexperienced and/or incautious driving is common. The federal police set up highway assistance stations, the Red Cross is an annual presence for accident and health issues, and it's not a time I would pick to travel the beach roads. If you have to stay in hotels rather than camp, you will be hard pressed to find vacancies during this time of year.

I mention these things not to discourage you, but to help you be aware of the holiday highway realities here.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

grox13

Nov 12, 2009, 7:45 AM

Post #6 of 26 (6067 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Yah, I wondered about traveling at this time of the year. We’re traveling December 18th - January 3rd. Right in the middle of the Christmas madness.

Generally, I avoid vacationing during the busy seasons but, until we quit our jobs, this is the only time we can get two weeks in a row. I’ve been encouraging my wife to make reservations, but she assured me that the last time she was in that area, hotel rooms were easily found. I have a feeling however that she wasn’t there during Christmas vacation.

We don’t need anything fancy, just a basic place to sleep. Seems like most of the hotels I find online are catering toward the more pampered traveler. I guess its time to pick up a Lonely Planet guide to Mexico :)

Being able to camp in the Tacoma comes in handy when we can’t find a room. However, my wife mentioned last night that she’s having second thoughts about camping at all. She said she’s not sure if she still feels safe camping in Mexico… even sleeping in the enclosed bed of a pickup truck with a cap. Thoughts?

chinagringo

Nov 12, 2009, 7:56 AM

Post #7 of 26 (6065 views)

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Re: [grox13] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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You can save yourself some time at the border by getting your vehicle permit at the Mexican Consulate in Denver. We do that prior to each trip at the Consulate in Albuquerque and usually takes about 5 minutes. You will need photocopies of your title, registration, drivers license (registered owner), main page of U.S. Passport and proof of Mexico Auto Insurance. I would imagine that you are aware that a "deposit" must be made with a credit card in the name of the registered owner. At the border, we have found the lines for vehicle permits to often be long and not worth the aggravation.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

tashby

Nov 12, 2009, 8:37 AM

Post #8 of 26 (6054 views)

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Re: [grox13] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Quote

Although my wife hasn’t been to Mescota sense she was a little girl, this is the town where her family is from and she still has some distant relatives there. Were told there is even a little “cabin” that we’re welcome to use for a few days.

Then over to Guadalajara, which is where the plan starts to fall apart. We certainly welcome suggestions but basically, I think we’ll head north the same way (Hiway15)

Do you mean Mascota?

If so, since you're going to Vallarta anyway, there's a greatly improved highway that leads directly there from PV. And you can continue on from there directly to Guadalajara via Ameca.

grox13

Nov 12, 2009, 8:41 AM

Post #9 of 26 (6046 views)

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Re: [tashby] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Yup, Mascota. Thanks!

esperanza

Nov 12, 2009, 9:07 AM

Post #10 of 26 (6034 views)

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Re: [grox13] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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In Reply To

We don’t need anything fancy, just a basic place to sleep.

Many travelers--if not most--say exactly the same thing. "Basic accomodations" are the hardest to find.

I second the get-your-car-permit-in-Denver motion that Chinagringo made. It will make your life much easier. If the Mexican consulate there will also give you your FM-T (tourist card), so much the better. Then you can just breeze on through the border--'breeze' being a euphemism for line-up-and-wait-to-cross.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

chinagringo

Nov 12, 2009, 9:07 AM

Post #11 of 26 (6033 views)

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Re: [grox13] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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I would personally be somewhat hesitant in planning to camp out in the back of the Tacoma and besides, I could never sell that concept to the better half! From a cost standpoint, many travelers have reported excellent experiences staying in the so called "no-tell" motels. I would personally doubt that most of these would be full with reservations. I have had decent results checking out motels/hotels on tripadvisor.com and reviewing visitor comments.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

chinagringo

Nov 12, 2009, 9:10 AM

Post #12 of 26 (6029 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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As we are all aware, each Mexican Consulate has their own set of rules. Albuquerque cannot issue FMT and do require one to obtain it at the border. Denver may be different!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

grox13

Nov 12, 2009, 10:31 AM

Post #13 of 26 (6013 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Thanks! Great idea. I'll check with the Mexican Consulate in Denver.

Now I'm leaning toward bringing the Tacoma. Might be nice to have it as a last "resort" if we can't find a room. We've camped all over Colorado in the back of the Tacoma. It has a nice sleeping platform (with storage under), a comfy mattress and the cap keeps us safely out of the elements. So, comfort is not the question. Just wondering if anyone would bother us? Of course we would only camp at a designated camp area.

Trying to post a pic of the Tacoma on a recent camping trip...

(This post was edited by grox13 on Nov 12, 2009, 10:31 AM)

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RickS

Nov 12, 2009, 8:57 PM

Post #14 of 26 (5971 views)

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Re: [grox13] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Of course we would only camp at a designated camp area."

Don't assume that you are going to find many 'designated camp areas' on your route! Mexico just doesn't have the camping infrastructure that you are used to having in the US, especially on the route that you have chosen. Most camping, other than Mexican National camping on the beaches during a holiday, is done by snowbirders in larger RVs, and that is done mostly on a beach local. There is a book, Traveler's Guide to Mexican Camping by Mike and Terri Church, that is the BIBLE to camping in Mexico. I used it to help with my previous post to you about the area you will be traveling. Pick one up at the local bookstore and you'll have about EVERY place you could possibly stay on your route down Hiway 15.

With respect to camping in the shell of a pickup...... I am a camper too, from backpacking in Colorado (I'm your neighbor in Fort Collins!) to tents to truck slide-in campers to 5th Wheels. And I have visited much of Mexico (not camping) and love it. But I just don't think I want to 'tour' Mexico camping in the shell of a pickup truck. It's not the 'elements' that you need to be concerned about. It is, for me, just too personally exposed in an social environment that has a history of, if nothing else, excessive petty theft. Now you could possibly make that entire trip without an incident, and I have NO hard statistics that would indicate you couldn't, but.....

Most people that go to Mexico and 'camp', do so in RVs that you can lock, and they, generally, stay on a nice beach with a bunch of other like soles and in a specific destination area, not touring and staying everywhere as we do in the States.

esperanza

Nov 13, 2009, 8:33 AM

Post #15 of 26 (5948 views)

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Re: [RickS] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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I definitely agree with Rick. Sleeping in your truck camper is iffy and risky, IMHO. I wouldn't do it unless you were in a beach area with a lot of other RV campers.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

jerezano

Nov 13, 2009, 11:18 AM

Post #16 of 26 (5937 views)

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Re: [esperanza] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Hello,

Someone previously mentioned a direct highway from Mascota to Guadalajara via Ameca. If that is the highway that goes by Santiago, be prepared for some tortuous and scary mountain driving. That highway while well paved the last time I went there some two or three years ago is really scary and difficult. Take the car or truck which drives more comfortably if you are planning to go that route.

jerezano.

grox13

Nov 14, 2009, 6:28 AM

Post #17 of 26 (5902 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Denver to Guadalajara MX: Tacoma or VW Golf?

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Hey thanks for the great tips everyone. I think I'm finally starting to get the picture. :)

We went to the book store last night and bought a couple good guide books. We'll be taking the VW and we're giving up on the camping idea entirely for this trip. We might not be as flexible as we hoped but that's OK too. After reading the guide books and the advice from the Mexconnect I'm feeling very comfortable with our choice. Besides, I have the feeling we'll be spending a lot of time in San Blas.

Just one more question. Rick you might know the answer to this one. Is there another choice for a border crossing that might be better (closer, faster and safe) than Nogales? Auga Prieta maybe?

Thanks again,

Greg

RickS

Nov 14, 2009, 12:34 PM

Post #18 of 26 (5870 views)

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Re: [grox13] Agua Prieta vs Nogales

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Greg, the following is opinion and not necessarily fact....

You biggest 'problem' might not be just the border crossing but the Holiday traffic trying to get through along with you. Unless the economic downturn is/has materially affected the Mexican Nationals heading home, that will significantly tie up the borders no matter which crossing one uses. But in general Agua Prieta is not as hectic as Nogales.

But the time-to-cross is only one factor in the overall trip. Although the Agua route looks like a straighter shot one must also consider average mph each way. Hiway 2 from Agua over to hiway 15 is a two-lane with potholes. The first 55 miles to Cananea is relatively flat, but the last 50 miles past Cananea will have much more truck traffic and the road will be more 'mountainous' and curvey so you won't make very good time.

If you cross at Agua Prieta, the Aduana is right at the border and you can get all your paperwork done there. No matter where you cross coming back, don't forget to turn in your temporary auto permit/sticker!

If you decide to cross at Nogales and continue on I10 towards Tucson, dont' go all the way 'up' to Tucson but cut 'cross-country' either cutting down at Benson and go through Patagonia (nice scenic roads). Or go a little farther on I10 and cut across to Green Valley and down. In Nogales by all means use the new Mariposa 'truck-crossing' on the west side of Nogales Az. One doesn't get any 'papers' in Nogales but instead the new Aduana is open just past Empalme, waaaaay down around Guaymas!

P.S. There is also a small, easy crossing at Naco, just west of Agua Prieta but I understand one cannot turn in their car permit there on the way back out and must use the Aduana at Agua. Of course one doesn't have to turn the permit back in at the same spot they get it. If you come back through Nogales, don't forget to turn it in down at Empalme as I don't think that can be done any longer at the border.

P.P.S. Plan on re-entering the U.S. to be much more of a hastle (and much less friendly personnel IMHO) than going into Mexico.

P.P.P.S. Someone warned that the road to Mascota from PV was 'mountaneous and scary', but since you are used to driving in the mountains of Colorado you'll wonder what they were talking about. That's a very scenic route with newer road. On that route, don't fail to stop by San Sebastian del Oeste. Very cool village! And I just love Mascota and the area. Try and drive up to Laguna Juanacatlan and the Sierra Lago Resort and Spa outside of town.... set aside a couple of hours up and back. see this posting for more info.... the 'river crossing' I described then has been replaced by a suspension bridge over the canyon/river.

http://www.mexconnect.com/...20del%20oeste;#83897

(This post was edited by RickS on Nov 14, 2009, 12:51 PM)

Kimpatsu Hekigan

Nov 14, 2009, 2:14 PM

Post #19 of 26 (5855 views)

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Re: [RickS] Agua Prieta vs Nogales

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A couple of corrections:

Quote

One doesn't get any 'papers' in Nogales but instead the new Aduana is open just past Empalme, waaaaay down around Guaymas!

Southbound, you can get your temporary vehicle importation permit either at the Km 21 checkpoint just south of Nogales, or at the Km 98 checkpoint south of Empalme on Hwy 15.

Don't forget to get a tourist card (FM-T) for yourself at the Mexican Immigration Office at the border or at the Km 21 checkpoint. There is no Immigration office farther south on Hwy 15, and none at the Km 98 checkpoint.

Quote

If you come back through Nogales, don't forget to turn it in down at Empalme as I don't think that can be done any longer at the border.

Not true. At Nogales, the temporary vehicle importation permit can only be turned in at a small office directly opposite the Km 21 checkpoint south of Nogales. The diversion from the northbound lanes of Hwy 15 is well signed, so it's hard to miss.

The facility at the Km 98 checkpoint south of Empalme only issues the vehicle permits. You cannot return the permit there. In fact, there is no way to (legally) drive your vehicle across the median to get to the checkpoint facility from the northbound lanes of Hwy 15. This facility is operated by Banjercito who processes the paperwork, takes your money, and issues the permits on behalf of Aduana Mexico (Mexican Customs). There is no actual Aduana office at the Km 98 checkpoint.

HTH,

-- K.H.

Before enlightenment: Chop wood, haul water.
After enlightenment: Chop wood, haul water.

RickS

Nov 14, 2009, 2:26 PM

Post #20 of 26 (5848 views)

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Re: [kimpatsu_hekigan] Agua Prieta vs Nogales

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Thanks for that clarification/correction K.H. As I recall now I did turn my permit in at the 'small office directly opposite the Km 21 checkpoint south of Nogales'. The Empalme checkpoint was not quite open my last time through that route and I was going from memory as to what others say one can do there..... something I know better than doing!

bournemouth

Nov 15, 2009, 6:11 AM

Post #21 of 26 (5824 views)

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Re: [kimpatsu_hekigan] Agua Prieta vs Nogales

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Kimpatsu - you are always such a reliable source of information, but, are you sure, based on personal experience, that you can get the all Mexico car import permit at Empalme? I know you can get an Only Sonora permit there but thought, maybe incorrectly, that the all Mexico permit had to be obtained at Kl. 21.

(This post was edited by bournemouth on Nov 15, 2009, 6:13 AM)

jerezano

Nov 15, 2009, 7:40 AM

Post #22 of 26 (5809 views)

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Re: [RickS] Agua Prieta vs Nogales

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Hello,

By all means stop at San Sebastian del Oeste. Especially if on a weekend. That is when all the tourists fly in from Puerto Vallarta and the town goes all out with entertainment, tours, and artifacts.

And, I was the one who mentioned the scarey and tortuous road. Yes it was new about 3 or 4 years ago. Yes at that time it had no guard rails or walls, just as so many of the Colorado mountain roads lack them. I, too, am familiar with those Colorado roads including the one over the Pass instead of through the tunnel. This road from Mascota to Guadalajara was MUCH more frightening. Particularly if you happen to be a passenger with your wife or somebody else driving. True it is scenic and a beautiful drive for all passengers. The driver is so busy he doesn't get to see much. This drive is NOT for a large Van or God forbid a limousine. The bus drivers are to be congratulated for their courage and daring.

But compared to the somewhat boring drive via autopista from P.Vallarta to Guadalajara it is worth driving at least once. And while much shorter in distance it does not save any time.

Enjoy. jerezano.

(This post was edited by jerezano on Nov 15, 2009, 7:43 AM)

Kimpatsu Hekigan

Nov 15, 2009, 6:44 PM

Post #23 of 26 (5778 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] All-of-Mexico Vehicle Permits at Empalme

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Quote

...are you sure, based on personal experience, that you can get the all Mexico car import permit at Empalme?

Yes. Please see image of credit card receipt from Banjercito issued on October 27, 2009, at the Empalme facility.

When I got my all-of-Mexico permit, I was the only one applying. No other cars in the parking lot. Took about 10 minutes.

When I stopped for Immigration at the Km 21 checkpoint south of Nogales earlier in the day, there was a caravan of RVers getting their vehicle permits. I figured I faced at least a 90-minute wait for a permit there.

The Empalme facility also issues Sonora Only vehicle permits, which have not been available at the Km 21 checkpoint for more than two years.

HTH,

-- K.H.

(This post was edited by kimpatsu_hekigan on Nov 15, 2009, 6:47 PM)

bournemouth

Nov 16, 2009, 6:53 AM

Post #24 of 26 (5750 views)

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Re: [kimpatsu_hekigan] All-of-Mexico Vehicle Permits at Empalme

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Thank you Kimpatsu! There was no facility for issuing All Mexico permits there for some time - what a boon for people heading south - it'll be a good place to get one during the Christmas rush.

grox13

Nov 16, 2009, 11:26 AM

Post #25 of 26 (5716 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] All-of-Mexico Vehicle Permits at Empalme

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Thanks again everyone! Great info. We're really starting to feel great about the trip!

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