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MaryPat

Feb 4, 2013, 6:20 AM

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residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Could someone comment on the pros and cons of changing from our Rentista FM3s to the residente temporal versus the residente permanente? We have lived in Quintana Roo long enough to qualify for either--but are unclear to the ramifications of changing to one or the other.



YucaLandia


Feb 4, 2013, 7:02 AM

Post #2 of 25 (3683 views)

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Re: [MaryPat] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Off the top of my head:
~ The ease of a single, one-time application/registration for Residente Permanente.
~ Only one payment for Residente Permanente vs. up to 4 years of Temporary Resident card payments.
~ Residente Temporal
card holders must change to Residente Permanente after four years of Temporary Residency/FM2/FM3 (years on one permit) anyway.
~ If you have Residente Permanente card, your Notary may approve you for the Home-owners exemption from paying the 25% gains tax on a future sale of your Mexican home - a potential savings of $10's - $100's thousands of dollars.
~ If you are outside Mexico for part of the year, Residente Permanente keeps you from having to return to Mexico to deal with an expiring Residente Temporal card.
~ Residente Permanente allows you to work in Mexico, and to get an RFC from Hacienda.
~ Residente Permanente is a good stepping stone to becoming a Naturalized Citizen. Since you are from Q. Roo, you may have property under a Fidei Comiso , and getting Citizenship allows you to terminate the Fidei Comiso , saving you $ thousands in annual payments to the bank.
Advantages and Disadvantages of Residente Permanente vs. Residente Temporal
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Feb 4, 2013, 9:25 AM)


RickS


Feb 4, 2013, 7:10 AM

Post #3 of 25 (3669 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Steve, could you speak to the differences between the two, if any, with regard to owning/driving a US/Canadian plated car while in Mexico.


YucaLandia


Feb 4, 2013, 7:49 AM

Post #4 of 25 (3642 views)

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Re: [RickS] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Hi Rick,
Until we hear the final ruling from Aduana, (hopefully in the next 2 months ???), this question is a tough one. Here are a few less-than-complete thoughts about the advantages and disadvantages of Nationalizing a NAFTA Vehicle vs Temporary Import Permits.
~ Temporary Import Permits (TIP) require the owner to make annual pilgrimages to the local Aduana office to get their annual letter, certifying their new updated expiration date.
~ TIPs cause some police to hassle some drivers over whether their TIP is still valid (unexpired).
~ Anyone is allowed to drive a Nationalized car, while there are significant restrictions on who is permitted to drive a TIP car.
~ If the TIP car is stolen in Mexico, then the owner may be on the hook for rather wicked 40% taxes/fees of the car's value.
What Happens if Your Foreign Plated Car is Stolen? … …. SURPRISE ! @#%&***!!
~ With many insurance companies, you must keep the Aduana TIP valid/unexpired, to keep your insurance protection in force.
~ If you lose you TIP paper document, it requires a trip to the border to cancel/surrender the old TIP and about 4 hours of hassles to get a new replacement TIP, plus paying for the deposit.
~ TIPs require $100's dollars deposit on the vehicle, and Banjercito does sometimes play games in refunding the TIP deposits, particularly if you did not notify them of your new INM permit expiration date before the expiration date.
~ If you accidentally forget to renew your INM permit on time, your TIP may become invalid, requiring a trip to the border.
~ TIP cars do NOT have to pay annual State tenencias (no annual ownership taxes).
~ Permanently imported vehicles may have to pay annual State tenencias. (States may waive/exempt the tenencia if the vehicle is old or cheap - or if it is a pick-up truck. We have lots of Ricos driving Lincoln pickups, as a tax dodge - since these luxurious Lincoln Mark IV's never see anything in the bed nor ever haul a load.)
~ TIP cars are frequently stopped at police and military retenes , while nationalized cars are waved through.
~ If you leave Mexico, with the TIP sticker on your windshield, then you can have a year's worth of hassles resolving the lost sticker if:
the car is stolen,
the car is wreaked or
the car is sold.
~ Nationalized vehicles can be bought and sold easily inside Mexico, while TIP cars are expressly forbidden from being sold or transferred.
~ If the TIP car is lost, wrecked, or stolen inside Mexico, canceling the TIP with Aduana generally requires a letter from a Notario and documentation, and possibly trips to Aduana to get the document proving that the TIP has been canceled.
~ Nationalizing vehicles costs money, and a one day or 2 day trip to your State DMV to register and get plates.
~ Many states require a 1 day annual trip to the State DMV to renew the registration of nationalized cars (though Yucatan just eliminated this requirement).
~ We get regular comments/questions from gringos who leave their TIP vehicle in Mexico, while going back NOB. Many times these migrants run into problems if they get sick, hospitalized, etc and cannot return to Mexico to do the annual Aduana TIP dance.
~ We know more than a few people who either must leave Mexico or the owner dies, and their TIP car is then stranded in Mexico with very few options.
~ If the TIP car dies in Mexico, it generally requires canceling the TIP, and sending Aduana a special letter from a Notario certifying that the vehicle has no value and has been scrapped.
~ TIP cars can be any make or model (FUN), while nationalized vehicles must be NAFTA manufactured. i.e. We had to swap our very sweet Nissan Maxima for a Sentra when moving here, because the Maxima is of Nippon origin.
~ Only 8, 9, and 10 year old vehicles, or classic cars, can be nationalized for modest taxes/duties.
~ Other newer nationalized vehicles are hit with steep taxes/duties (non 8-10 year old used vehicles are charged a 50% duty on the new list price, while new cars pay a 30% duty??**), when nationalizing them vs. only the Banjercito deposit of a few $100's dollars for a TIP car.
...

**US Dept of Commerce 2011 Compilation of Foreign Motor Vehicle Import Requirements]

other items?
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Feb 4, 2013, 8:58 AM)


YucaLandia


Feb 4, 2013, 7:55 AM

Post #5 of 25 (3635 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Tony,
Should these last 2 posts (Rick's & mine) be moved to a new thread?
steve
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Feb 4, 2013, 8:00 AM)


RickS


Feb 4, 2013, 8:40 AM

Post #6 of 25 (3620 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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"a few less-than-complete thoughts"....

Steve, glad you didn't have time to really think about the issue ;>)


MaryPat

Feb 4, 2013, 8:52 AM

Post #7 of 25 (3610 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Please don't move this thread elsewhere as the foreign plated car issue may be critical to all of us for the advantages/disadvantages of the resident temporal vs residente permanente as we learnmore about it in the future. Many different things to consider and foreign plated cars are included in what we all may decide to do.


stevebrtx

Feb 4, 2013, 9:25 AM

Post #8 of 25 (3594 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Wow, the newer than 8-10 year old cars thing and 50%? That's a jab in both eyes for sure. Guess we don't have to guess at the power the new car dealers hold in MX.
http://www.chapalaweather.net


careyeroslib

Feb 4, 2013, 10:11 AM

Post #9 of 25 (3575 views)

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Re: [stevebrtx] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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With respect to deciding residente temporal vs. residente permenente on the basis of being able to keep a foreign plated car (TIP) in Mexico, bear in mind that, as Yucalandia pointed out, residente temporal is really intended for people staying 1 to 4 years, not permanently. So, if you wanted another residente temporal after 4 years, you would have to remove your car and yourself back to your home country and reapply, get another TIP and drive back.. You can´t keep renewing residente temporales within Mexico as you used to be able to with FM3s.

In my opinion, for people who qualify, Residente Permanente is the way to go unless you have a vehicle which you don´t want to get rid of or nationalize within the next 4 years.


(This post was edited by careyeroslib on Feb 4, 2013, 10:12 AM)


skier14

Feb 4, 2013, 11:58 AM

Post #10 of 25 (3539 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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I am currently driving a Califonia plated 1996 Dodge Neon (VIN begins with a number)that I brought into Mexico for the second time in 2008 with a windshield sticker and paper permit. I presented my credit card when entering, but have no idea if there was a TIP and for how much. I have changed, after 5 years with a FM3, to a FM2 and am now on my 2nd Refrendo which expires 12/04/13. I have never had any more dealings with ADUANA, not even notifying them of change of status (FM3-FM2). My address has remained the same and since I was married (registered with INM) to a Mexican citizen 13 years ago, I plan on applying for RESIDENTE PERMANENTE this coming April. My question is: Why is it not possible to legalize this car in my wife's name as I did a 1991 Dodge 350 dually in 2007 and what problems might I expect from Aduana?


RickS


Feb 4, 2013, 2:07 PM

Post #11 of 25 (3493 views)

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Re: [skier14] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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"but have no idea if there was a TIP and for how much."

There was certainly a TIP back in 2008.... that is what the 'windshield sticker and paper permit' was all about. Back then there was no large deposit required so you probably paid a fee of around $25 dollars.

But since you did not keep it 'alive' with an annual trip to Aduana, it has expired and it is my understanding that your Neon is now in the country illegally.... unless somehow your wife citizenship enters into the picture somehow. It is also my understanding that IF you somehow get cross-wise with the authorities with that car (accident, etc.), the authorities can confiscate it without any recourse.

And the current thinking (no rules yet) is that a RESIDENTE PERMANENTE will not be allowed to have a foreign-plated car in Mexico.

Don't know anything about 'legalizing' the Neon in your wife's name.....


tashby


Feb 4, 2013, 2:16 PM

Post #12 of 25 (3493 views)

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Re: [RickS] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Quote
There was certainly a TIP back in 2008.... that is what the 'windshield sticker and paper permit' was all about. Back then there was no large deposit required so you probably paid a fee of around $25 dollars.

But since you did not keep it 'alive' with an annual trip to Aduana, it has expired and it is my understanding that your Neon is now in the country illegally.... unless somehow your wife citizenship enters into the picture somehow. It is also my understanding that IF you somehow get cross-wise with the authorities with that car (accident, etc.), the authorities can confiscate it without any recourse.


I hope that's not true because if it is, I'm in the same boat. Only the boat isn't a Neon, it's an Accord.

I thought the only reason to check in with Auduana every year was to preserve the deposit. Since we also arrived in 2008 long before the deposit was required, I've never bothered to get a letter from them every year.

But getting back to skier's question:


Quote
Why is it not possible to legalize this car in my wife's name as I did a 1991 Dodge 350 dually in 2007 and what problems might I expect from Aduana?



(This post was edited by tashby on Feb 4, 2013, 2:19 PM)


stevebrtx

Feb 4, 2013, 3:27 PM

Post #13 of 25 (3466 views)

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Re: [tashby] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Yes on the Aduana check keeping the deposit "alive" and as long (up to now at least) as your visa is up to date and the chain is unbroken your TIP is valid. Mine is 5+ years old and I've been stopped at times and I show them the visa and they wave me on.

Now, that being said, if/when you renew your Temporal by leaving the country and returning then you need a new TIP or if you go Permanente then you have to leave and nationalize to remain legal - we assume because Aduana has not published rules yet.
http://www.chapalaweather.net


careyeroslib

Feb 4, 2013, 5:05 PM

Post #14 of 25 (3437 views)

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Re: [MaryPat] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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I apologize for answering, Mary Pat, because you are living in Quintana Roo already. Sorry. Yucalandia is your expert.

From what I can see.,atitudes toward foreign plated cars differ a great deal dependent on where you live in Mexico.


robt65

Feb 4, 2013, 5:19 PM

Post #15 of 25 (3430 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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I would like to add another category. If you are disabled and have your car modified so you can operate that car, You may nationalize any year model as long as the car has been "adapted' for accessibility and it falls within the parameters of the federal law. This is the same in ALL Mexican States as it is a Mexican National law. You have to have certain disabilities to be approved for such an importation, plus a letter from your doctor, and your car must definitely be modified for accessibility. For example one of my disabilities is that I am an amputee and I have now a "left footed accelerator modification" on my newer Tahoe. This allows me to bring this car into Mexico for nationalization and not pay the import tax on the car.

By the way, this also holds true for simple visitors coming in on a TIP. You are not required to pay for the TIP if you are the disabled driver and your car has been "adapted” solely for your accessibility needs. One should be aware this does not include simply a scooter lift on your car. You also still have to have the doctor’s letter as well.

Regards,

robt65



S & C

Feb 9, 2013, 8:26 AM

Post #16 of 25 (3082 views)

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Re: [tashby] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Rick S says that our cars are illegal because we haven't up graded our permits. Maybe not!
I am a snow bird and brought my car down in 2010. In Feb of 2011 I attended a meeting with many ex-pats and snow birds about this issue. The meeting was moderated by a rep of the US Consulate and had a few Aduanna officials, one they said came in from Mex city so they were supposed to be knowledgeable about the new laws.
They told us that if you brought a car in before the new laws you were grandfathered and did NOT have to re do your permit with Aduana each year.
They gave us a hand out that suposedly stated that so we could show it to the authorities if stopped and hassled about it.
(hopefully it is attached).
The English translation part seems a bit murky in that it doesn't seem to really adress the situation but that was what we were told.
I wonder what others know of this? I wasn't stopped since then but was stopped with another vehicle before the new law and was questioned about my sticker dates. They let it go because I had a new FM 3.
thanks
Stan
Attachments: foreign plated.jpg (117 KB)


robt65

Feb 9, 2013, 10:56 AM

Post #17 of 25 (3036 views)

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Re: [S & C] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Hello S & C,

Like anything else legal one has to carefully read all the law completely to have a full understanding and even then it can be vague.

Under Fraccion IV, in the last couple of sentences it states that "Such vehicles may be driven within the national territory by a foreigner --- the importer ---holding one of the migratory status referred to in this paragraph, by his or her spouse, parents or descendants, even when the latter are not foreigners; and by a Mexican, as long as one of the persons authorized to drive the vehicle travels with him or her in the car.

My spouse is a Mexican National and is listed on my insurance, as well as on the ownership papers of the car (Texas State Registration) even though she has not been in the USA. To me, this clearly illustrates the fact that my Mexican wife IS ALLOWED to drive the car, even though I am not in the car. This would also stand correct if my brother - in- law were driving the car if my wife or myself were in the car or not.

This part of 106 seems to come up quite frequently and can sure be interpreted in either direction as far as this Article 106 seems to be written. Reasonable comments are appreciated.

Regards,
Robt65



Rolly


Feb 9, 2013, 11:14 AM

Post #18 of 25 (3030 views)

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Re: [robt65] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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This would also stand correct if my brother - in- law were driving the car if my wife or myself were in the car or not.
I don't read it that way. Your blood relatives, not hers, are covered. In-laws are not incuded.

Rolly Pirate


RickS


Feb 9, 2013, 11:28 AM

Post #19 of 25 (3024 views)

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Re: [robt65] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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***Note*** I was typing as Rolly was posting....


robt65, I don't know quite what situation you are 'arguing', but it seems to me that....

Your wife, no matter her nationality, is allowed to drive the car you, 'the importer', have imported because she meets the primary criteria of being a 'spouse', not because she is Mexican.

Also, I am not sure what you actually mean by 'This would also stand correct...' and 'were in the car or not'.
I don't know how your brother-in-law can drive your vehicle UNLESS you or your wife are IN the vehicle at the time. He is not 'a parent, spouse or dependent' of you, the importer. And therefore as a Mexican he can only drive the vehicle if either you or your wife, as 'the persons authorized to drive the vehicle', travels with him.

Am I misunderstanding your post?


(This post was edited by RickS on Feb 9, 2013, 11:29 AM)


robt65

Feb 9, 2013, 2:21 PM

Post #20 of 25 (2987 views)

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Re: [Rolly] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Exactly the ambiguity I was referring to Rolly. My B-i-l is not a blood relative but he is a Mexican and my wifes name is on the ownership of the car a well as on our Mexican insurance.

Regards,
Robt65


robt65

Feb 9, 2013, 2:35 PM

Post #21 of 25 (2982 views)

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Re: [RickS] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Hello Rick S

Maybe you are misunderstanding my post . . .. but it certainly isn't your fault! (smiling) You put it a different way than I (I think) but you hit it on the head when you said . . . . . "I don't know how your brother-in-law can drive your vehicle UNLESS you or your wife are IN the vehicle at the time. He is not 'a parent, spouse or dependent' of you, the importer. And therefore as a Mexican he can only drive the vehicle if either you or your wife, as 'the persons authorized to drive the vehicle', travels with him."

and Rolly was right as well . . . . . my brother in law is not a blood relative of mine, but by the writing of this law he is allowed to drive my car (not as a blood relative of mine) and he's not a decendent of my wife and so it does boils down to being a "blood relative" although by the way I read it, being a blood relative of hers doesn't really matter as long as my wife is in the car any Mexican National can drive it. . . . . . . . . . . . damn . . . . I'm startying to confuse myself!

Regards,
Robt65


Axixic


Feb 10, 2013, 4:37 AM

Post #22 of 25 (2903 views)

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Re: [robt65] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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"by his or her spouse, parents or descendants, even when the latter are not foreigners; and by a Mexican, as long as one of the persons authorized to drive the vehicle travels with him or her in the car. "

Doesn't his (the importer) or her (the importer) mean the person who imported the vehicle and the spouse of the importer can drive the vehicle but the blood relatives must be the blood relatives of the importer, not the spouse of the importer. If the blood relatives of the spouse are allowed, they could be looking at dozens of people and the law's intent is to limit drivers.

I think it refers to the foreign importer only which is one person and not all the names on the title.


Ric Hoffman


Feb 10, 2013, 6:16 AM

Post #23 of 25 (2877 views)

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Re: [S & C] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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In Reply To
S & C says .......

They told us that if you brought a car in before the new laws you were grandfathered and did NOT have to re do your permit with Aduana each year. They gave us a hand out that suposedly stated that so we could show it to the authorities if stopped and hassled about it.

The English translation part seems a bit murky in that it doesn't seem to really adress the situation but that was what we were told.


According to Article 106 IV of the Aduana law your vehicle remains legal even if you do not file a notice of change or approved Prórroga or Refrendo. The Manual de Operación para la Importación Temporal de Vehículos y Motocicletas Abril 2010 says if notification is not submitted within 15 of the change you may forfeit your deposit if made in cash (changed to include debit or credit cards). It goes on to restate that in any event, if you meet the requirements of Article 106 IV as it applies to INM, meaning your visa has not expired or lapsed, your vehicle remains in México legally.

You are required to file this notice, but you suffer no penalty if it is not filed.


(This post was edited by Ric Hoffman on Feb 10, 2013, 9:40 AM)


barmarr

Feb 10, 2013, 9:07 AM

Post #24 of 25 (2806 views)

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Re: [Rolly] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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Rolly,

I am very confused.

Our U.S. plated car (with current tags) was brought into MX in 2009 under my husband's FM3. This TIP is under the old system.
If he decides to continue with Temporal and I go Permanente, will I be able to drive the U.S. plated car as his spouse?....without him in the car?
Thanks,
Barmarr


Rolly


Feb 10, 2013, 9:41 AM

Post #25 of 25 (2789 views)

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Re: [barmarr] residente temporal vs residente permanente

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We don't know because Aduana has not issued new rules.

Rolly Pirate
 
 
 
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