Forums > General > Living, Working, Retiring

Todd DF

Jan 30, 2003, 2:29 PM

Post #1 of 22 (4166 views)

Shortcut

Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

After living in Mexico for over a year now, the water tanks on the tops of houses have become as natural as running water itself, but I have never fully understood why these are necessary other than the public water supply is interupted so frequently. This caught me off guard the other day when a visitor asked me why the water service is this way throughout Mexico.

Anybody have the inside scoop on this?

(Waiting for nightfall to wash my car.)

scott

Jan 30, 2003, 2:42 PM

Post #2 of 22 (3994 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Todd DF] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

Ooooh let me tell you, I can give you the inside scoop. Here in my neighborhood public water shuts off for several hours every afternoon. Do you know what happens when you don't have a tinaco, during this time of day??? I think also you might need a tinaco for heating up the water, to connect it to the heater, and also for the sun to warm it up.

Rolly

Jan 30, 2003, 2:51 PM

Post #3 of 22 (3916 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Todd DF] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post | Private Reply

In many cities, the water is on all time, but the pressure is often very low, so the tank on the roof boosts the pressure. That way you can get a better shower, and the toilet can refill in a reasonable amount of time. Some of us supplement the tank with a pressure pump that really makes the plumbing work like in the old country.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Todd DF

Jan 30, 2003, 2:54 PM

Post #4 of 22 (3959 views)

Shortcut

Re: [scott] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

I can relate to the water being shut off, mine is off from 11am to about 6pm everyday, but why is this? Is it due to lack of pressure, limited supplies, or just conservation measures? I guess what I'm looking for is, what is different about the water works here compared to the States?

Todd DF

Jan 30, 2003, 3:03 PM

Post #5 of 22 (3886 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Rolly] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

That pressure pump sounds like a good investment. Even though I dont like to waste water, a good high pressure shower is just the ticket.

Now, any reason why the water pressure would be so low even in big cities like D.F.? Maybe I should be asking a civil engineer. =)

Rolly

Jan 30, 2003, 5:11 PM

Post #6 of 22 (3874 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Todd DF] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post | Private Reply

The simple answer is inadequate infrastructure. In other words demand outruns supply. Too many homes connected to main lines that are too small. Imagine how bad it would be if these systems also had to power fire hydrants and fire fighting for wooded homes.

Your comment on asking a civil engineer reminds me of this story:

A group of engineers from various fields were discussing what kind of engineer God must be. The electrical engineers pointed out the major role played by electricity in the nerves, brain and heart control, ergo God must be an electrical engineer.

The chemists countered with a recitation of the numerous chemical process in the body, proving, at lest to them, that God is surely a chemist.

The mechanical guys piped up with a description of the intricate structure of the skeleton, especially such things as the knees, elbows and fingers, which clearly shows that God is an accomplished mechanical engineer.

They all laughed loudly when the lone civil engineer asserted that God must be a civil engineer. When the laughter died down, he asked simply “Who else would build a waste disposal line through a recreational area?”

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

(This post was edited by Rolly on Jan 30, 2003, 5:12 PM)

Jan 30, 2003, 5:21 PM

Post #7 of 22 (3927 views)

Shortcut

Re: [scott] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

I know many reasons for having water tanks on the rooftops of Ajijic but this practice is not limited to Mexico or other developing countries, nor it is unto itself indicative of infrastructure limitations .... this is a photo of NYC

http://www.streetplay.com/...images/sunbather.jpg

(This post was edited by LJ on Jan 30, 2003, 5:25 PM)

sparks

Jan 30, 2003, 6:38 PM

Post #8 of 22 (3892 views)

Shortcut

Re: [LJ] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

There are elevated water tanks all over the US (even in Seattle). In many farming towns the water tower is the only landmark. Must just be a case of .. if the municipality won't do it ....

jennifer rose

Jan 30, 2003, 7:11 PM

Post #9 of 22 (3859 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Rolly] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

The elevated or rooftop water storage tank is a tinaco. The underground reservoir (or sometimes above-ground) is the aljibe. Not all houses have tinacos, and not all houses have aljibes. What works in one part of the country – or even a single neighborhood or type of construction – doesn’t set the standard for all else.

The aljibe is usually located in the cochera, under the house, or in the garden – usually somewhere fairly close to the street, although it could be located anywhere.

The usual routine is that the water pumps from the street to the aljibe, where it is stored until it is pumped up to the tinaco. From the tinaco, it is then delivered to the filtration and purification devices, hot water heater, and the rest of the house. If the elevation of the tinaco is high enough, it works as a gravity-fed pressure pump.

Those houses which do not have a tinaco usually require a pump to deliver the water to the house. And when the electricity fails, so too does the electric pump.

Again, and this is very regional, in a good many areas water is not delivered 24/7/365. It may come from the street only in the morning and at night, during designated hours, or even on designated days. Water may be delivered to one area during specified times, and to another during another time frame. There may be shut-downs of water service while the water plant undergoes repairs. Some people aren’t connected to a water system at all, and they must depend upon delivery from water trucks. That’s why water storage is important.

matt

Jan 30, 2003, 11:07 PM

Post #10 of 22 (3817 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jennifer rose] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

I have met some people in Mexico who don't want to use an electric pump to agument the water pressure to their houses for fear of having high electric bills. Possibly, the pump brings negligable effect to the electric bill, but the fear is there.

jturpen

Feb 1, 2003, 11:34 AM

Post #11 of 22 (3727 views)

Shortcut

Re: [LJ] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

LJ ...

I think you are leading the folks a bit astray with the picture. Carole King is one of my favorite songwriters (Up on the Roof) and the picture you attached is from the 1978 time frame and is not a current condition I copied the tag for the photo, it is:
1978: Tar beach, midtown Manhattan
(Photo copyright ©1978 Martha Cooper/City Lore) .

So to say that Mexico and New York are the same regarding water tanks on the roofs is not accurate.

BTW the city water folks shut those tanks off 20 years ago, they just don't have room in the land fill on Staten Island for the old wood so they leave them standing.

Joe

arbon

Feb 1, 2003, 12:36 PM

Post #12 of 22 (3707 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jturpen] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

"BTW the city water folks shut those tanks off 20 years ago, they just don't have room in the land fill on Staten Island for the old wood so they leave them standing."

http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/...s/2002-05-15/645.asp

While New York is not the only city in the country to use wooden tanks, Hulser says that nowhere else are they so prominent.

" Other cities in the country were built later. Their water systems are more modern and they don't have nearly the number of high buildings," she says. Most of the water that comes down from the reservoirs is garvity fed to the city. "New York's water system is older and it uses wider guaged pipes, which have less natural pressure than the smaller ones found in more modern systems."

"The fire code said that every apartment building had to have at least two sources of water," Sideris says. "If it didn't, then the law required that there be at least 3,500 gallons of water stored on the premises for firefighters' use."

Under city fire codes, tanks are the only option for buildings that do not connect with two different water mains. Most buildings on street corners and blocklong structures have the use of two water lines.

(This post was edited by arbon on Feb 1, 2003, 12:39 PM)

Esteban

Feb 1, 2003, 2:10 PM

Post #13 of 22 (3683 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Todd DF] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post | Private Reply

The difference between the US and Mexican water supply is infrastructure. That means that the system of distribution has been kept at a higher standard in the US than in Mexico. An excellent water system, one that provides a liberal volume combined with good pressure costs money. These standards include proper pipe sizing, proper well or source development, proper quality testing and treatment (mandated by a federal law in the US) and properly engineered systems for mandated minimum pressure as written in most building codes especially in non-rural environments. Here in Mazatlan, potable water comes from a series of wells. There are large problems with the infrastructure but people who have homes with adequate aljibes, properly sized tinacos and a good pressure system live life as though water problems didn't exist.

Feb 1, 2003, 3:58 PM

Post #14 of 22 (3662 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jturpen] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

Thanks for the info, but as you said, the tanks are still there, so they are not an anomoly to Mexico, and they are, in fact, part of the landscape of many cities with strong infrastructures.

jturpen

Feb 2, 2003, 8:08 AM

Post #15 of 22 (3632 views)

Shortcut

Re: [arbon] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

Arbon ...

I made an incorrect statement and should have said that as the primary method for getting "drinking water into a home" (which is what the original thread is about) the 10k odd tanks are for fire prevention. From the Columbia article: "Until three years ago, when a new law mandated fire sprinkler systems in apartment building construction, water tanks were the first line of defense in building fires. The tanks supply water to standpipes that in turn supply fire hoses"

I have friends that live on Staten Island, a few that have apartments in Manhatten up around 72nd street near the park and some out in Baldwin (on Long Island) ... there are no tanks on the roof for drinking water.

What the article says is a bit confusing, it sounds like the tanks serve various purposes depending on how old the building is. The five burroughs of New York (Brooklyn, Staten Island, Queens, Manhatten and I forget the other one) have about the population of Mexico City in an area aprroximately 25 miles square. The article indicated there are between 10 and 15k tanks. Does that seem like a large number of tanks to you?

Anyway I'll look up some stats about population and square miles and density and share those.

My point is that the statement by LJ attempted to equate drinking water systems in some places in Mexico with fire prevention systems in the New York City area. My opinion is, that is an unequal comparison.

Joe

jturpen

Feb 2, 2003, 8:45 AM

Post #16 of 22 (3614 views)

Shortcut

Re: [LJ] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

Well the tanks are part of the landscape if you can see up over buildings that are over six stories tall. I think what ToddDF originaly asked is about the tanks atop homes in sight by everyone. If you have ever been to NY City you would notice that the buildings are huge ... we're talking 50 floors and more. When you come out of Madison Square Garden which is on top of the Grand Central Station ccompound, you are around 32nd - 34th and 7th streets. You can barely see the sky because you are absolutely overwhelmed by the buildings ... and trust me you do not see water tanks on the rooftops.

I told Arbon I would gets some figures for comparing: from this site http://www.queensmuse.org/exhibitions/panorama.html,
I found that NYC is 320 sq.mi. (I had figured 25 miles square = 625 sm but it is smaller than what I thought) with a population of 8,008,278 as of the 200 census. Now if you count the number of fire prevention water tanks 15,000 and divide that by the number of people the ratio is .001873 tanks per person. Does that seem like the same as what is in some places in Mexico?

Joe

jturpen

Feb 2, 2003, 8:50 AM

Post #17 of 22 (3600 views)

Shortcut

Re: [LJ] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

Typo ...

" with a population of 8,008,278 as of the 200 census " of course the 200 should be 2000 .

Fat fingers ...

Feb 2, 2003, 9:19 AM

Post #18 of 22 (3595 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jturpen] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

Ok, I see what you're saying, but the majority of people walking on the streets in NYC eventually go into a building, and from the buildings you can see the roof tanks. I have come out of Madison Square Guarden and looked up (not advisable especially during the immediate end of an event there due to the crowds) and I cannot see over 6 stories (which wouldn't help me since I don't think there are any buildings there that are only six stories, but I could be wrong), but when walks through NYC and sees the "empty" areas, where there are open lots and parking businesses that are not underground or such, you can look up and see these tanks on the neighboring rooftops, from the street.

Also, the roof tanks there are just a tad bit larger than the roof tanks in the villages in Mexico.

The whole point of my bringing this up in the first place is to demonstrate that roof tanks are not an anomoly to Mexico and do not necessarily indicate a lack of infrastructure.

jennifer rose

Feb 2, 2003, 9:33 AM

Post #19 of 22 (3605 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Esteban] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

Quote

There are large problems with the infrastructure but people who have homes with adequate aljibes, properly sized tinacos and a good pressure system live life as though water problems didn't exist.

Well put, Esteban. But I might rephrase your statement to reflect that those who live with adequate aljibes, tinacos and a pressure system live like that because water issues demand redundant systems. We know the problems exist, and that's why we have those systems!

Feb 2, 2003, 10:00 AM

Post #20 of 22 (3582 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jturpen] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

(actually, jturpen, Madison Square Garden is on top of Penn Station, not Grand Central Station)

Esteban

Feb 2, 2003, 8:48 PM

Post #21 of 22 (3568 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jennifer rose] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Entirely true and it's not that much more money to design a system that fits the situation. A lot of people through ignorance forget the importance of water and would rather buy a new couch or TV than invest in water which is an investment in good health.

SUZY

Feb 3, 2003, 10:31 AM

Post #22 of 22 (3543 views)

Shortcut

Re: [arbon] Why the Water Tanks?

Can't Post |

arbon,
pleasure meeting you here!...are you the same "arbon", of the B.P. forum?...

if you are, what a coincidence!...don't know if you can "see" my e-mail here!...just signed up!...

i can't see yours, so i just thought that i'd give you a "hello", here on mexconnect!...

hope you're doing well, if you are "one in the same", give me a holler, here on the board!

from a "slightly crooked smiler", suzy...