Should I be nervous?

Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Well, despite still being several years away from retirement, I’ve put in notice at work and intend to take an extended vacation to Mexico for an indefinite period of time. Some might call this 'moving' to Mexico. I simply refer to it as an 'exploration' trip. I plan to spend a few days in Mexico City where I have friends and then visit some towns where I may want to eventually live. Some of those towns include Aguascalientes, San Miguel de Allende, Leon, Manzanillo, and frankly, who knows where else I’ll decide to go. This will be the first time in my life I've ever just gone and done something without having it planned out first. Of course, Mexico and I aren't strangers... I'm fluent in the language and I've lived in Mexico City.

With that being said, one of my reasons for posting is to ask if anyone has suggestions for room and board. When I lived in Mexico City in the 90s, I rented a room from a senora who took in college students. Perhaps someone out there knows of a similar scenario for travelers? If not, I'd certainly be grateful for advice leading me to inexpensive hotel options or short-term rentals in your particular area.

Also, I know this sounds cynical but it's been on my mind so I have to ask... I keep hearing that now is a bad time to go to Mexico because of the violence and especially, because of the kidnappings. I just had a friend call and practically beg me not to go because of the news warning that if you’re an American, you will most likely end up kidnapped, held for ransom and/or killed.

I know that bad things happen down there... they happen here too. But is it really becoming a serious problem down there? I’m hoping for responses from Americans or other foreigners who are currently living in Mexico. If you think I should postpone the trip, please tell me why. My intention is to take a month or two (or six), and just explore a bit. Kind of a 'walkabout' or as the Chilangos say... "ir puebleando".

Thanks everyone!
Roger DeNoon
Euless, Texas

Rolly

Oct 15, 2008, 10:23 PM

Post #2 of 27 (2546 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Don't postpone your trip. The chances of anything bad happening to you are damn slim.

I have lived in México for 8+ years in the midst of a local drug war, and I still feel safer here than when I lived in Los Angeles.

You can find more information about safety issues on my website at http://rollybrook.com/safety.htm

Enjoy your trip.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
This is a good time to be living in Mexico.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.

BajaGringo

Oct 16, 2008, 12:18 AM

Post #3 of 27 (2539 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Your biggest risk will be trying to avoid buying a timeshare at some of the busier tourist stops. If you can navigate around those you should do OK. I have been here several years and like Rolly, feel safer here than my years living in Long Beach, south of LA. Just use some common sense and you should have a good time...

Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula

mskitty

Oct 16, 2008, 8:40 AM

Post #4 of 27 (2497 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Just saw this on CNN.com, thought I'd pass it on:
U.S. travel alert adds Nogales, Mexico. TUCSON, Arizona (AP) -- The U.S. State Department has added the border city of Nogales to its list of places in Mexico where American travelers should be wary because of increasing violence.

The updated State Department travel alert attributes much of the violence in northern Mexico border cities to fighting among Mexican drug cartels for control of border-area narcotics trafficking routes.

Mexico's government has deployed military troops to the region to try to crack down on the drug organizations.

The alert this week said Nogales, Ciudad Juarez and Tijuana were among cities that "recently experienced public shootouts during daylight hours in shopping centers and other public venues."

It also said U.S. citizens driving along Route 15 between Nogales and Hermosillo, the capital of the northern state of Sonora, have been followed and harassed. Nogales is about 60 miles south of Tucson.

"Some recent Mexican army and police confrontations with drug cartels have taken on the characteristics of small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic weapons and, on occasion, grenades," the alert said.

Don't think this would scare me off, if I were planning a trip, but it's always good to know what's going on.

(This post was edited by mskitty on Oct 16, 2008, 10:54 AM)

Brian

Oct 16, 2008, 9:03 AM

Post #5 of 27 (2488 views)

Re: [mskitty] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post |

Folks can take comfort in the fact that the soldiers will protect you. In a more perfect world, militarization of Mexico wouldn't be necessary but it looks like they will be here for the duration.

RogerTX

Oct 16, 2008, 9:12 AM

Post #6 of 27 (2484 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Thank you all for your replies. Sounds like business as usual for the most part. Even when I was living in Mexico City, things were a little crazy. Bear in mind this was when Colosio was assassinated and the peso devalued drastically. NOT a good time to be in Mexico...

Here's something interesting. Below are links to travel advisories from the USA and Canada. They both mention violence with drug cartels and kidnapping risks but which ones are more likely to scare people away from going?

Canada
http://www.voyage.gc.ca/...n.asp?country=184000

USA
http://travel.state.gov/...a_tw/pa/pa_3028.html
http://bigcountryhomepage.com/.../fulltext/?cid=53941
http://www.discoverseaz.com/...s/MexicoWarning.html

Sometimes I think we're a bit prone to overreacting and focusing on the 'scary' stuff. Rolly and BajaGringo, I grew up on the West Coast and know what you mean about feeling safer in Mexico than in LA and Long Beach. I recall drving from San Diego to East LA to visit my ex-wife's aunt and frankly, I could never get out of there fast enough. And MsKitty, thanks for the CNN info. Obviously, the border towns continue to be the most dangerous. I have a few memories of Tijuana and Cd. Juarez. Never felt comfortable in either town.

So on to more enjoyable topics... any suggestions on places I should consider visiting while down there? I'm not looking for tourist locations (although I do love the beach) nor gringo hangouts like Lake Chapala. Are there any beach areas that haven't been invaded by foreigners and multi-million dollar hotel conglomerates? On a recent trip to the Yucatan, a guy from Texas who owned a restauarant in Playa del Carmen told me that Tulum was the best investment spot he could think of. In fact, he said it reminded him of Playa del Carmen 10 years ago. I was considering Manzanillo but it appears online to be a bit like Mazatlan and Pto. Vallarta. Not that I dislike those areas. I love them! But I'm not rich so cost is a factor for the trip, as well as for a potential land purchase if I find a place that feels right to me.

Again... thanks to everyone! - Roger
Roger DeNoon
Euless, Texas

Oct 16, 2008, 9:30 AM

Post #7 of 27 (2477 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

An area not far from Manzanillo, that is beginning to grow with residential development but not hotels, is Cuyutlan - be warned, it has grey sand beaches which get really hot. A long, long beach with big waves - a popular Mexican weekend and summer holiday spot.

We like Manzanillo and you can certainly find inexpensive spots in the overall Manzanillo area which includes Salagua, Santiago and other small areas that have become part of Manzanillo but still retain their individual identities.

Ed and Fran

Oct 16, 2008, 10:16 AM

Post #8 of 27 (2460 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Even when I was living in Mexico City, things were a little crazy. Bear in mind this was when Colosio was assassinated and the peso devalued drastically. NOT a good time to be in Mexico...

Depends in a large part on your situation or point of view. I was living in Mexico City at the same time. Even after the assassination of Colosio things didn't seem any different as far as my daily life went. I thought it was a great time to be in Mexico.

Sometimes I think we're a bit prone to overreacting and focusing on the 'scary' stuff.

I agree.

Are there any beach areas that haven't been invaded by foreigners and multi-million dollar hotel conglomerates?

Well, there's always Tuxpan. Typical gulf coast beach with brown sand and a real gradual runout. But I suppose the reasons that there are virtually no expats or big hotels here are that the climate sucks, the infrastructure is virtually non-existant, medical treatment options marginal, and the words "cultural event" don't exist in the local dialect.

Good luck with your scouting trip. Sounds like you have a plan.

Regards

Ed

Oct 16, 2008, 11:50 AM

Post #9 of 27 (2437 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Hello Roger,

Hello Roger,

I cannot help on room and board.

I also live in a small town in Zacatecas and can't really say anything about Mexico City itself except that Express Kidnaps seem to be increasing there. This is where a person is kidnapped, he/she goes to an ATM once a day for three days to withdraw the maximum amount allowable, and on the third day is turned loose. This seems to be based on the idea that a person can live without food or other care for three days.

Now will that happen anywhere else in Mexico? Doesn't seem to be happening anywhere else except in some frontier cities like Tijuana and Cd. Juárez.

Not to say it can't happen, but then you could be killed in an auto accident there in Texas too.

jerezano.

Oct 16, 2008, 11:53 AM

Post #10 of 27 (2434 views)

Re: [bournemouth] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Hello Roger,

bournemouth said:>>We like Manzanillo and you can certainly find inexpensive spots in the overall Manzanillo area which includes Salagua, Santiago and other small areas that have become part of Manzanillo but still retain their individual identities.

But be wary of Manzanillo itself. It has really become expensive with large mansions, and high rental costs.

jerezano

alex .

Oct 16, 2008, 11:58 AM

Post #11 of 27 (2430 views)

Re: [RogerTX] The most famous Mexican expresion:

Can't Post | Private Reply

"No pasa nada............."
Alex

Oct 16, 2008, 12:03 PM

Post #12 of 27 (2427 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Hello Roger,

You said:>>On a recent trip to the Yucatan, a guy from Texas who owned a restauarant in Playa del Carmen told me that Tulum was the best investment spot he could think of. In fact, he said it reminded him of Playa del Carmen 10 years ago. <<<

If you are thinking of a beach area and possible investment growth in ten years look for my posting here on the Nayarit forum where I give the URL (http://www.mexidata.info/id2013.html) for a new "Cancún" type development which the Mexican Government initiated this year and covers lower Sinaloa some 160+ km south of Mazatlán, and just a part of Nayarit. Two marinas, several golf courses, more than 44,000 rooms and condominiums and a possible airport. Seems to me that a lot or small house in a small village in northern Nayarit or maybe in Sinaloa itself could be acquired now at very reasonable cost.

Much the same climate as Manzanillo although just a bit more temperate.

jerezano.

(This post was edited by jerezano on Oct 16, 2008, 12:14 PM)

Oct 16, 2008, 12:14 PM

Post #13 of 27 (2418 views)

Re: [jerezano] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

But Jerezano - you can still buy a condo right on the beach in the $150,000 range, which for right on the beach in an area with insfrastructure, is not bad. You can buy little houses not far from the beach under $100,000. And, true enough, you can buy a mansion on La Punta for over 1million US.

Judy in Ags

Oct 16, 2008, 12:18 PM

Post #14 of 27 (2416 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

We live in Aguascalientes, which I see is on your list. I'm sorry I can't help on places to stay either.

If you want to live on or near the beach, Aguascalientes is out, which I'm sure you know. We don't like hot (or cold) humid weather, so we love it here.

As far as being nervous about visiting at this time, I think the others have expressed it well. I'd say Come on--use common sense and be cautious as you would be any where.

(This post was edited by Judy in Ags on Oct 16, 2008, 12:20 PM)

IslaZina

Oct 16, 2008, 12:36 PM

Post #15 of 27 (2407 views)

Re: [Judy in Ags] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

My best friend, who lives in Sacramento but has visited me on Isla Mujeres, a ferry ride from Cancun, asked similar questions the day before yesterday when I said I was going "into" Cancun for medical testing, a ferry ride and a cab away. To the average Jose on the street, nothing has changed. The drug murders are, so far, very targeted and kidnapping for ransom just doesn't happen here unless you are a narcomenudista family.
Go where you would like to go. Since you are taking an explorative attitude, nothing is for keeps. My day to day life is in my blog and you can see, it is pretty bording stuff, even for this quiet little island.
http://islazina@blogspot.com

(This post was edited by IslaZina on Oct 16, 2008, 12:37 PM)

tashby

Oct 16, 2008, 2:05 PM

Post #16 of 27 (2386 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Yes. You should be nervous.

And excited!

I think it's natural to be nervous when you've taken the first step toward what may lead to an entirely new life. Good for you and congratulations. I wouldn't worry any more (or less) about the dangers of living in Mexico. Does it exist? Sure. Is it 100% avoidable? No. Are you going to prevent it from living the life you want? Personal choice.

My partner and I have just spent six months doing something similar to what you have in mind. We've been focused on Central/Western Mexico, Jalisco and Michoacan. My only advice to you is to give yourself plenty of time, and look at this trip as an initial exploration. We have found that we recognize where we *don't* want to live almost immediately, but finding where we think we do want to live, long-term, has been trickier. Don't think we've found it yet.

But we're older, move more slowly, and also have a dog along for the ride. And who knows, you might get lucky and find your perfect place right away.

As far as places to rent short-term....it's tricky. You have a huge advantage in being fluent in Spanish. In every city of any size (with a university) I've noticed ads in the rental section of newspapers offering rooms to students. There are also a fair amount of hostels in Mexico, if it's a city that is a destination of any sort at all. Check out the listings in HostelWorld or some other website. Or just google the name of the city plus hostel.

Good luck with your adventure. We haven't regretted a moment of ours!

Oct 16, 2008, 4:36 PM

Post #17 of 27 (2362 views)

Re: [bournemouth] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Hello,

Bournemouth, talking about Manzanillo area said:>>But Jerezano - you can still buy a condo right on the beach in the $150,000 range, which for right on the beach in an area with insfrastructure, is not bad. You can buy little houses not far from the beach under $100,000. And, true enough, you can buy a mansion on La Punta for over 1million US.<<<

Not mentioned is what has happened in the stores, the restaurants, and the other facilities.

As I understand things in the US, the median price of a house was roughly $150,000 usd before the recent debacle. Houses in some areas have dropped 40% (California, Arizona, Florida, etc) and are forecast to continue dropping until the end of 2009. Too, many of us oldesters consider $100,000 as a luxury home no matter where it is. Not all of us are used to California or New York City prices.

And all those prices are US prices not Mexican prices. The price of an upscale, brand new home here in Zacatecas ciy will in a gated private development not run over $1,000,000 pesos. Of course, no beach. Normal middle class homes can be reached at $450,000p to $850,000p.

What I am suggesting in my previous post if Roger is looking for an investment near or on the beach he should consider a location like Manzanillo BEFORE it started its explosion about 6 years ago. That new Magna devolpment in Sinaloa which is supposed to be twice the size of Cancún has all that potential if picked up now, plus the advantage of living on the beach while watching your property increase in value. There is another development at La Pesca on the Gulf of Mexico which is also underway but the Northers in that area are fierce. Climate just like in the Rio Grande Valley. Only a freeze every ten years or so, but cold and miserable weeks during normal winters.

I am not a real estate investor and I regret the opportunities I have had in the past and not taken advantage of. Like many of us I can say I knew Puerto Vallarta, Manzanillo, Aticama, Chacalá etc when.....

jerezano

Oct 16, 2008, 4:58 PM

Post #18 of 27 (2353 views)

Re: [jerezano] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

I understand what you are saying about the new development in Sinaloa but think you are under a misapprehension if you believe a beach front lot will be much short of 2-300,000US - these new mega resorts are not cheap in any way and the pricing is not "Mexican" pricing but international pricing.

Oct 16, 2008, 5:46 PM

Post #19 of 27 (2341 views)

Re: [bournemouth] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Hello bournemouth,

You said:>>I understand what you are saying about the new development in Sinaloa but think you are under a misapprehension if you believe a beach front lot will be much short of 2-300,000US - these new mega resorts are not cheap in any way and the pricing is not "Mexican" pricing but international pricing.

I agree with you. But what is missing here is that the new developers have not yet set up their plots, areas, plans etc. By looking at the area now, making some good guesses, selecting an out of the way corner that is near to everything one can still deal with the owner or owners before the inflation hits. The 5000 acres (about 9 square miles) included in the development belongs to one owner an ex governor of Sinaloa. Within that area there are some little towns (some on the beach) which have their own property rights where existing lots or houses can still be bought before the inflation hits. If I were Roger I would investigate and see what might be available now. A lot of those owners are not yet aware of the megaplan (it was only announced some 3 days ago) or perhaps are sceptical that it will be carried out etc. But I think that a potential buyer in that area can be sure that the megaplan will be carried out at some time in the future, perhaps not in ten years but in 20 or 25. And trust deeds (fidieocomisos) usually have a term of 55 years or so and are renewable if I remember correctly. Roger is not yet retired so he is apparently a lot younger than many of us and can look forward to a future of 55 more years rather than ten or so.

Now what the government is going to do is starting early in 2009 complete the funding of the expansion of Highway 15 from Mazatlán to Tepic and also on to Puerto Vallarta. They will then undertake--time not yet specified--the work to provide the infraestructure necessary for this new development to take place. Not said, and perhaps not necessary, but for example maybe dredging the river channel to the lagoon entrance and potential marinas etc; Make the necessary studies about the potential airport; work with and contract special developments, highway and town planning etc. Another example; A town will need to be created for the many different employees needed to build the development. Also, those employees will drive up the prices of existing lots and housing.

In other words just as many of the La Manzanilla owners did before the growth hit there. There was no mega development planned for La Manzanilla. It was just a desireable area that returees decided to move into. Notice that I said La Manzanilla not Manzanillo. La Manzanilla is a small but beautiful beach just north and west of Melaque. And from what I have been told you can now find beach homes there near the $1,000,000 usd mark, or another area Playa de las Tortugas a bit farther north where a beach home is now advertised at nearly $400,000 usd. (But here it is a developer.)

What is clear is that the Mexican Government is dedicated to developing the West Coast of Mexico for Tourism. The beach at El Novillero in Northern Nayarit is supposed to be more than 7 miles long and at a depth of only 4 feet some 150 feet out into the ocean. It is claimed to be the best beach in Mexico. It is as yet relatively undeveloped. And it is just some two or three hours south of Mazatlán.

jerezano

Oct 16, 2008, 6:13 PM

Post #20 of 27 (2332 views)

Re: [jerezano] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

I'm sorry Jerezano but I posted a link to a story on the resort on the North Pacific forum on the 29th September - if it has reached the stage of being announced. pretty much everyone for kilometers around knows about it - Fonatur will have arranged to buy land long ago.

BajaGringo

Oct 16, 2008, 7:00 PM

Post #21 of 27 (2318 views)

Re: [RogerTX] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

If you like the beach areas you have nearly a couple thousand miles of options in Baja along the Pacific Ocean and Sea of Cortez. There is also great diversity from which to select in climate, habitat and human density. The general rule of thumb is it will be hotter the further south you go and more on the Sea of Cortez side. Further north and on the Pacific is cooler. We have lived here for years and love it although we are in the process of relocating a bit further south to San Quintin. The weather is still perfect year round there but less folks and a bit quieter lifestyle which suits us just fine. Also the land prices are much lower and great surfing/fishing. If you decide to make it down this way I can give you some suggestions where you can stay...

Our House Building Project in Mexico...
Lomas de San Martin
Loving Life on the Baja Peninsula

MazDee

Oct 17, 2008, 1:49 AM

Post #22 of 27 (2274 views)

Re: [BajaGringo] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post | Private Reply

Baja Gringo, I love your posts. You are an excellent writer and provide wonderful info here. But you are beginning to sound like a RE salesman! You are moving to San Quintin, which is lovely BECAUSE there aren't a lot of people, and in every message seem to want to encourage everybody to come there. Umm...
I stayed in San Quintin back in the 70's! It was a place for sport fishermen, and it might have been called Viejo Molino, or something like that. Something to do with an old mill on the property. There was a lodge where a gourmet dinner (and I mean it) was served, and little cabins for the guests. The electric went off about 9, as I recall, but each cabin had a kerosene lamp. I will never forget the dinner. It was probably the best I have had in México.
Dee

Brian

Oct 17, 2008, 3:49 AM

Post #23 of 27 (2270 views)

Re: [MazDee] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post |

As I recall, there was also an old cemetery there. Those buried therein were all Englishmen who had been early settlers of the region.

(This post was edited by Brian on Oct 17, 2008, 4:36 AM)

Brian

Oct 17, 2008, 4:35 AM

Post #24 of 27 (2266 views)

Re: [Brian] Should I be nervous?

Can't Post |

Here's a story in today's paper about the military presence in San Miguel de Allende to provide a safe environment for residents and the all-important tourist base:

http://www.oem.com.mx/...io/notas/n895016.htm

(This post was edited by Rolly on Oct 17, 2008, 6:31 AM)

BajaGringo

Oct 17, 2008, 6:47 AM

Post #25 of 27 (2247 views)