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bschwarz

Aug 13, 2003, 9:22 PM

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Puerto Vallarta

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My husband and I are researching the possibility of spending several months a year in Puerto Vallarta and are confused about the estimate of "around 1200 per month dollars to live well." Does that mean just to cover expenses or with money left over to travel, buy clothes, fly back to US periodically, etc.? Any info? We want to live where the rent is cheap, obviously. No car at least at first.

jennifer rose

Aug 13, 2003, 9:48 PM

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Re: [bschwarz] Puerto Vallarta

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$1200 US/month for one person or a couple is still a slender budget, which will not allow for flights back to the US, clothing purchases or vacation travel.

mazgordon

Aug 14, 2003, 1:03 AM

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Re: [bschwarz] Puerto Vallarta

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I would strongly suggest you find a little place to rent for one month and see for yourselves how long that budget lasts.

¡Echar todo la carne al asador!

Esteban

Aug 14, 2003, 11:15 AM

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Re: [bschwarz] Puerto Vallarta

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I was just there last November looking at rental prices and when I look for a place, I look for spartan, inexpensive and on the fringe of the safe society. Rent alone is expensive. I'd say you'd be lucky to find a rental, unfurnished, within walking distance of the old artsy part of town for under $400 a month. Plus the fact that you probably wouldn't be satisfied with my standard of housing. Just a guess.

In outlying areas, you may find something much cheaper but forget about having a car, forget about having a phone and internet access, forget travelling to the US unless you'd be satisfied taking the bus once a year and forget about eating out at restaurants. You'll be able to afford the street food (which can be very good) but to eat really well, spend your money on the great fruits, veggies and meats at the local markets and cook en casa.

gpk

Aug 14, 2003, 1:39 PM

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Re: [bschwarz] Puerto Vallarta

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I'm not sure this is allowed--but where I own my condo in PV (LosMuertos--great location) there is a furnished studio owned jointly by all the owners. It has windows and is air conditioned, but it is UNDER the patio area. Anyway, it happens to be vacant and I think it is available for 2500 pesos per month. It's a good place to get started. Our manager can be reached at: saskia@vallarta-getaways.com.

FunLovingOldLawyer

Aug 14, 2003, 7:21 PM

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Re: [gpk] Puerto Vallarta

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oops.
FunLovingOldLawyer

bschwarz

Aug 14, 2003, 8:13 PM

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Re: [jennifer rose] Puerto Vallarta

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Thank you for your reply. I rather suspected that the books I was reading were too optimistic. Actually, we would have more of an income than I based my question on, but I needed to know whether to trust the info or not. My next question would be are there other places that would be cheaper? Bette

bschwarz

Aug 14, 2003, 8:25 PM

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Re: [gpk] Puerto Vallarta

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thank you so much for your reply and offer of your studio apartment. We aren't quite ready to make a permanent move yet, but we now know there are people out there who can help. I'm still confused, though. We live comfortably here in the States on 1200 a month, two cars, three computers, internet, two telephone lines, money to travel, good health insurance, etc. Why does everyone tell us we can live cheaply in Mexico? Any ideas? BEtte

Rolly

Aug 14, 2003, 8:50 PM

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Re: [bschwarz] Puerto Vallarta

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Sometimes you can live more cheaply in Mexico, sometimes you can't. It depends on where you are coming from and where you are moving to. The days of living high on the hog for cheap in Mexico are gone. A lot of old books and old memories are still around giving folks an out-of-time expectation of life down here. I moved from Los Angeles to a place far from the coast, far from tourists, and far from other gringos. I spend less here than in LA; but if I had moved to PV, I probably wouldn't have saved a bit.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

jennifer rose

Aug 14, 2003, 9:19 PM

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Re: [bschwarz] Puerto Vallarta

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7Now I know there are going to be a zillion others who are going to take issue with my stance, but I’m going to throw in my $.02 anyway. Books and articles touting “Live Cheap in Mexico” sell better than “Live Differently.” Yes, there are many people in Mexico –- even Mexicans – who do live on less than $1200 USD/month. But most foreigners will find it difficult. And many who come here thinking that they can comfortably live on much less money frequently find disillusion.

Many of those who claim they live on $1200/month in the Old Country do so because they live in a place like Arkansas, own their own homes, owe nothing on their cars, and take into account only essential items like food and utilities. Practically every sample budget for “Living Cheaply in Mexico” reveals only barebones line items for those who contemplate a monastic existence. Those figures may cite the cost of a maid, but they don’t take into account the cost of mandated benefits like the aguinaldo, health care, and severance. In the car expense category, only gas and an occasional oil change are reflected; there is no provision for new tires, registration, licensing, insurance, or major repairs. There almost never is a clothing allowance. Or room for furnishings, home improvements and maintenance, gifts and charitable donations, reading material, the velador, medical and dental care, or entertainment. Many folks fall into the age-old trap of thinking two can live more cheaply than one.

The longer one lives here, the more one learns to economize on certain expenses and where to find some deals. But that savings is offset by integration into the community, which means shelling out more for gifts (you can’t go anyplace empty-handed) and donations (you have to give).

There are some items which come less expensively here, and there are some expenses which become drastically reduced (like dry cleaning). And there are some items for which there remains no alternative but biting the bullet and paying (like the modem I had to have the other day at the cost of $150 USD).

Too many people think that living in Mexico means a $5 USD/month electric bill and taking those autobuses with the purple lights inside. That’s fine for a lark, but the reality is that most folks, after a time here, begin to live in the same manner as the social class they came from back in the Old Country. If you lived in a upper-middle class lifestyle in the Old Country, you’re likely to eventually return to an upper-middle class lifestyle in Mexico. If you lived a Spartan existence in your home country, then you may find adaptation to a Spartan existence in Mexico easier. That doesn’t necessarily mean spending money on imported gringo food, but it can mean spending money on the same things that people in your class in Mexico do.

johanson

Aug 14, 2003, 9:31 PM

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Re: [bschwarz] Puerto Vallarta

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Some things are a lot cheaper in Mexico. Others are much more expensive. If you want gasoline, a new car, TV. to make a long distance phone call, etc. its much more expensive. But there are many things like cigarettes, RE Taxes, labor costs, restaurant costs, etc that are much cheaper.

Some areas in Mexico are more expensive than most. Ajijic aint cheap, but your choice PV is one of the more expensive places in Mexico. Why? I believe because there are so many foreigners there who are willing to pay higher prices.

Come on down. Learn to splurge on those items that are super cheap and stay away from the more expensive ones. If the rents are too high in PV, check out the prices in the close by villages to the North and South.

You can do Well or poorly on $1,200. It depends on your needs.

Good luck

Jerry@Ajijic

Aug 14, 2003, 9:36 PM

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Re: [bschwarz] Puerto Vallarta

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Please tell us where you live so well on 1,200 per month we might move there.

bschwarz

Aug 14, 2003, 10:51 PM

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Puerto Vallarta

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Dear Jerry: We live in Salida, Colorado, a small town along the Arkansas River surrounded by 14,000 high mountains in a valley known as the "banana belt." Actually, we own our own mobile home with its own land, but our utilities are high. Average $60 per month gas and the same for electricity. Average cost of an average home within the city limits is $150,000. In the new developments up the sides of the mountains where the California crowd is reinvesting their money, the costs begin about $250,000. Some sell for a million. We bought this old mobile home for $30,000 and fixed it up--new roof, furnace, hot water heater, etc. Taxes aren't much for us. Our car insurance is high and we are paying about $300 a month for a 1993 Mazda truck, almost paid off. Groceries are the same price as any Safeway store anywhere. Gas is now about 1.50 per gallon. Like everyone is saying, it depends on what kind of life style you expect.

We are used to Tex-Mex food, buying produce at the farmer's market, growing our own vegetables, and have been known to drive over a hundred miles to pick peaches off the trees in Western Colorado.

The reason we are thinking about Mexico is because I have always wanted to move there. At one time my entire house was furnished with items I bought during several trips to Juarez. I still cherish many of those pots, etc. I bought from the street mercados. The other reason is because my husband (we've been married only five years after losing our first spouses after fifty years) has emphysema and wants to move to a low altitude. My choice would be Guadalajara or Lake Chapala--I've been there on a weeks vacation with friends--but I will have to talk him into that gradually. Neither of us cares to immerse ourselves into a vast American community as we both get along very well with Spanish-Americans.

We both look forward to the near future when neither of us should be behind the wheel of a car so we look forward to learning how to take buses and taxis. We have a dog and cat, we don't go out much, and look forward to some peace and quiet. At the present time we run a thrift shop and Gil is getting a little tired of the hard work.

Have I told you more than you want to know? And, I don't know whether or not you would enjoy Salida. The average hourly pay is about $6.50. The artists and sculptors, etc. aren't making much. They come to buy what they need at our thrift store!! Does Mexico have thrift stores? If so, we would have no trouble at all!! Bette

bschwarz

Aug 14, 2003, 11:57 PM

Post #14 of 30 (2998 views)

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Re: [johanson] Puerto Vallarta

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Thank you for the info. Do you have a suggestion for two elderly gringos who don't want to have to go to the community get-togethers at Lake Chapala--I've been there--beautiful place--missed Ajicic--loved Guadalajara--but want a quiet community where we don't need a car but can take a bus--and where the weather is halfway decent. Our choice of Puerto Vallarta was not as a place to settle, but because we got cheap airfare/hotel package. Although my husband seems to prefer sea level rather than an altitude which is comparable to where we live now in Colorado. We aren't fussy, otherwise. Right now we own a thrift store, so you can see we aren't in with the "in" crowd. Hope they have thrift stores in Mexico. Anyway, any suggestions? Bette

bschwarz

Aug 15, 2003, 12:11 AM

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Re: [jennifer rose] Puerto Vallarta

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Thank you so much, Jennifer. We aren't discouraged yet because we know we aren't in the market for a maid or the high prices of Puerto Vallarta, although I did think we could sneak off to the outskirts where our money would go further. We are mobile home, thrift store, farmer's market kind of people so I know we could find some place to our liking. We have neighbors who spend several months a year in Mazatlan and who pay $100 dollars a month rent. But they have been living in Mexico over the last seven years and know how to get around. They are reluctant to tell us how much income they have, more than we, no doubt. I require a library nearby and we probably would like an English speaking Protestant Church.

One item I have not run across and I don't know why. Aren't there any mobile home parks in Mexico? I have read about them on Baja, but not elsewhere. Are there strictly RV parks for travelers? No permanent mobile home parks?

Again thank you for your comments. You are quite right and I'm glad you put in your 2 cents. Bette

Nick

Aug 15, 2003, 10:19 AM

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Re: [Rolly] Puerto Vallarta

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Rolly is correct. My wife is from Guadalupana near Guadalajara. We spend several months a year in an area near there and I am the only non-Mexican (Trying to un-learn the Gringo word) around for miles. The cost of living is far below that of more popular areas. But we have our own vehicle (1978 Ford pickup) and drive all over Jalisco. We shop near where we live where the merchandise is as good as downtown but at much less cost and no sales tax to pay. Gasoline is expensive but food is bought and consumed each day. Labor is much less expensive. We recently built a wall in front of our property, approximatly 30 meters long, 3 meters high. Labor and materials were about 1900 pesos. The wall, by the way, survived the last big earthquake that shook Colima without any damage. Good fill dirt, brought to fill in holes made by locals making bricks, was bought for 100 pesos a dump truck load.

We live for considerably less than the $1200 per month you are looking for, but don't have to put up with tourists and high prices. Many could not live like we do, without some of the so called necessities of life, but we wouldn't change it for anything.

The measure of a person is determined by the way he accepts responsibility for his actions.

PeggyS

Aug 16, 2003, 12:19 AM

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Puerto Vallarta

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Here in Ajijic there is a very nice mobile home park with what I consider quite reasonable homes for sale and rent. But the Lake Chapala area, while having great weather and views, is certainly not sea level, and your husband should visit and see if the altitude bothers him.
You can't walk everywhere from the park, but the largest grocery, liquor store, meat market and restaurant are within walking distance. Also the best, in my opinion, car repair place where they do wonders with anything mechanical. Plus other stores and services within a block or two.
I prefer being in the village where you can walk to just about everything and don't have to use your car. We're two short blocks above the main road (carretara) and so have a great view of the town and the lake.
Many Canadians, when they had the special tour fares to PV, would fly there, then take the scenic bus ride to Ajijic, so that's an idea if you have the time. The Laguna B&B (see Laguna Real Estate website) has a special at this time, of a room and bath for $100 U.S. a week, which includes a wonderful breakfast/brunch off the menu. You also have the use of a refrigerator plus a place indoors and also out in the garden, for the guests in the four rooms to gather and socialize. It's on a quiet street in the middle of town, near restaurants and shops and the plaza, so it's a good choice for the budget-minded.
My heartfelt congratulations at finding each other and your happiness at this time of your lives. I think it's just wonderful. And the very best of luck on your plans for retirement.
Peggy in Ajijic

David Eidell

Aug 18, 2003, 12:49 PM

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Either Your Budget Fits Or It Doesn't

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In lieu of being a bookworm (frustrating down here), I find some consolation with satellite TV, the History Channel, the Discovery Channel and PBS. It is a rather meager substitute but it will have to do. At least on the coast for me boredom in summer Mexico is a real issue. It's (the heat and humidity) too damned oppressive to take a long hike, and like many other expats I survive at night under air conditioning. I have come to the conculsion that I prefer cooler places in the summer and warmer places in the winter. Not available in one geographic location so the answer is "migrate". Not so clear at the moment is the "from" or the "to" except beaches to mountains.

Perhaps the key word is "compromise - compromise - compromise". It is easy to armchair plan a retirement south of the border when you are still north of the border. It's after you get here and disseminate alternatives and non-options that a real answer begins to appear. I am in hyper-withdrawals because of a long period since I last raided a "Borders" book store. I temporarily salve the wound with frequent doses of cappuccino, and half-hour bouts studying the dissection of the Third Reich on channel 269. Indeed, substitution and the rearrangment of one's priorities seem to be as important as which neighborhood seems to appeal or which beach town offers the best climate. Simply sitting in a bar on the malecon, in late afternoon and slowly destroying one's liver seems to be a real preoccupation with many expats. My answer lay in comparing a typical day north-of-the-border to a day in the tropics. Like it or not I found that what I -chose- to do, how I spent a day was no accident. I arose to a fresh pot of coffee, the morning rag (with Fry's computer ad), because I wanted to, not because that was what I settled for. At bedtime I may or may not pick up a recently acquired book on Quantom Mechanics, vulcanology, or Idi Amin. In Mexico this is damned hard to do without a serious set of overload springs and a gift for explaining to aduana that library do not two hundred volumes constitute.

A different point consists of addressing the issue of convincing a US health care HMO, that seasonal ingesting of Mexican medicines does not mean a release from liability for malpractice. Two years ago a bozo health clinic in California diagnosed me with kidney faiure, when it eventually was discovered that a quack, excuse me doctor, misread a lab report. The VERY first thing out of their mouth was "Oh gee that's right, you take weird Mexican medicines. Oh well, too bad". My kidneys are as good (or bad) as their's. But I have learned the hard way to hide my using Mexican medicines (same brand and formula) completely. Admitting you take a Mexican aspirin is like jumping out of a car after a bad accident and shouting, "You're not going to blame a blind person for this are you?"

Basta

jennifer rose

Aug 18, 2003, 9:34 PM

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Re: [David Eidell] Either Your Budget Fits Or It Doesn't

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Why not pick up a Mexican newspaper and read that? Or a couple of books in Spanish? Or even tune in to a Mexican television station?

dumois

Aug 19, 2003, 9:00 AM

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Re: [David Eidell] Bored? Depressed?

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Years ago a forum centered on emotional health took place here in Guadalajara. The last meeting was a panel session boasting a bunch of recognized experts seated up there talking and then answering questions from the public. When the question-evasive action started, a fine dressed lady asked one of the panelists, a well known and prestigious specialist, what she should do when she walked up at night with butterflies in her stomach, bathed in cold sweat and feeling like hell. I thought to myself, he's going to advertise himself and suggest the lady to call her analyst or something like that. To my surprise, this was his answer: "Estimada señora, you surely know people in pain, persons in need, poor jodidos. Get up, dress yourself, find one of those and help him or her in any way you can. You will feel better at once."

Saludos desde Guadalajara,

Dumois

(This post was edited by dumois on Aug 19, 2003, 9:05 AM)

jrice

Aug 19, 2003, 2:21 PM

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Re: [David Eidell] Either Your Budget Fits Or It Doesn't

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Re books. For what it worth, I've had great luck in getting Amazon shipments. If you visit Mexico City, there are a couple of shops called "Libros Libros Libros" that specialize in English books and are pretty good.

It's a long way from Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley, or even from a Borders, but there are some books available. Sipping a coffee while browsing Amazon isn the same thing as a coffee at Barnes & Nobles, but it's something.

esperanza

Aug 19, 2003, 2:50 PM

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Re: [jrice] Either Your Budget Fits Or It Doesn't

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And www.powells.com will ship you all the books you want (over $50/order) for free...I shop their used section and buy bunches. It takes about 5 weeks for them to get to you, but there's no duty and NO SHIPPING FEE. Check out the website.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

El Gringo Nuevo

Aug 19, 2003, 4:48 PM

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Re: [dumois] Bored? Depressed?

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Great post. Thank you.

Georgia

Aug 20, 2003, 8:05 AM

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Re: Books in Spanish?

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I am lucky in that I really enjoy Latin American novelists - in Spanish. I haven't seen any great Spanish speaking bookstores Lakeside and have to assume that Guadalajara must host a few. Any suggestions for Guad bookstores??

esperanza

Aug 20, 2003, 8:26 AM

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Re: [Georgia] Books in Spanish?

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Guadalajara is loaded with bookstores, both new and used! For new books, I like Librería Gonvill, either the Plaza del Sol or the Av Chapultepec locations. Then there is the Librería Gandhi, also on Av Chapultepec. And Librerías de Cristal, on Av Vallarta.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

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