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ex_navyordie

Sep 11, 2003, 1:23 PM

Post #1 of 28 (2051 views)

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PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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.....................please keep in mind I have tried numerous internet sites and this one stands out by far as one of the most informative. I read Jennifer Rose's artcile about Moving to Mexico being a breeze, but would like to hear from anyone and everyone else about also working (being semi-retired to sort of speak) being that I am only 40 years old and far from RICH. Thanks in advance to any and all who may be able to help me with my current situation:

My name is Gilbert Martinez, I am a married 40 year-old American and have been travelling to Puerto Vallarta Mexico for the past 15 years for vacation, it has become my second home figuratively speaking. I thought that I would be able to same day retire to Mexico and make it my permanent home!! I have been thinking about moving my family, which includes my wife Mary 40 and son Joseph 8 years-old (he is our natural child so there are no ex'es that need to be contested or contended with). I have been unable to get any solid answers on some very important questions and I am hoping you can either steer me towards a website that will explain in detail how this could be done without the usual difficulty of running around to Mexican Consulate sites (which I have found 100% useless) and calling the Mexican consulate here in NY (which has honestly been just as useless). I am hoping to be able to move my wife and family to Puerto Vallarta in the next 3 years and figure I need to start getting this process or at the very least the paperwork rolling now. I personally hope to be able to start my own Automotive repair business down there (since that is what I do here in the sates) and my wife will most likely be retired. My son would need to be able to attend an American/British school which I have already located one in Puerto Vallarta and I need to know everything I will have to consider in order to make this move/permanent relocation possible. I would like to be able to bring all my home furnishings (which really don't amount to much) and all my car repair tools for starting my Automotive Business. These tools for the business are valued at around 10,000USD (all are USED) and I am wondering about paperwork for them as well. ANY HELP YOU CAN PROVIDE US WITH IS GREATLY APPRECIATED and I hope you will be able to help us. Please keep in mind I have NO FAMILY in Mexico, but I do have MANY GOOD friends in the PV area who I would trust with both my life and finances to be able to help if there is anything I need to get done in Mexico itself. Is it possible for a 40 year-old non-retired American citizen to move to that part of Mexico and be able to work and start his own business?? If not, would I be able to have a friend start a business if I financed it and possibly keep it in his name to keep this "process" simpler and to help it move along more quickly?? Owning and buying property is a complete to mystery to me down there and I have been told it is also an impossibility. ANY truth to this?? Again if that is the case I have people who would put there name on deeds for me and so forth. I have been told that there is no way an American can gain Mexican citizenship (this was told to me by the NY Consulate during a phone call), unless he has DIRECT family which is Mexican. I do not know if this is true. Is it even necessary for me to gain Mexican citizenship to simply work and live there?? Please keep in mind I am an American and I have NO DIRECT relatives in any part of Mexico, although my last name is quite common there and maybe I actually do, BUT SIMPLY DON'T KNOW IT YET?? Can an American maintain "DUAL Citizenship" for both the US and Mexico?? Any help that anyone can provide will be greatly appreciated and again if you cannot answer these questions, then maybe you can point me towards a site or facility here in the USA where I can ask these questions and more importantly get the "RIGHT" answers to these questions. I appreciate any help you can provide me with and please keep in mind I am very hopeful to be in Jalisco working by the year 2006, I need to know from you if that is even a realistic possibility. I would especially like to here from any Americans who actually either retired to Mexico or were able to permanently relocate into that country. Thanks in advance to any and all people who respond to this post, all your help would be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Gilbert Martinez

Carol Schmidt

Sep 11, 2003, 6:26 PM

Post #2 of 28 (1995 views)

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Re: [ex_navyordie] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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You have asked a thousand questions, all of which require complex answers, and all of which are answered someplace on MexConnect! Spend a great deal of time here doing searches and reading everything that applies and then come back with any unanswered questions. Especially look at Rollie's site, especially the menaje de casa info on bringing in household stuff, which might include your tools, but I don't know. Good luck! You do have a few years, so you have plenty of time to get all your answers.

Carol Schmidt

Rolly

Sep 11, 2003, 6:47 PM

Post #3 of 28 (1988 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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CArol has suggested that you look at my site. Try here: http://rollybrook.com/how_to_move_to_mexico.htm

It does not deal with working or starting a business, but you may find useful info on the moving part. Sooner or later you are going to have to deal with the consulate. I hope my website will help prepare you for that task.

Best wishes on your adventure.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Sep 11, 2003, 8:49 PM

Post #4 of 28 (1973 views)

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Re: [ex_navyordie] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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Quote

ex_navyordie writes:
....Is it possible for a 40 year-old non-retired American citizen to move to that part of Mexico and be able to work and start his own business??...

Clicking on the "Search Posts" button and entering a search string of "working" will yield a raft of previous posts about the possibility of working in Mexico. Although you might be able to come up with some unique angle, as auto mechanics are hardly a rare or unusual trade in Mexico, your chances of getting a FM3 Work Visa are pretty slim from at least my unworldly viewpoint.

You might also want to invest some time on your next visit to your second home investigating what auto mechanics make in Mexico (searching on keywords "auto repair" or the like will also yield some threads with indicators here). Sending a child to a private english-language school may be a bit of a struggle on your basic mechanic's earnings.....

Jean

Sep 12, 2003, 5:39 AM

Post #5 of 28 (1945 views)

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Re: [ET] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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I think given all your questions and all the legal aspects involved what you really need is to get in touch with a Mexican lawyer who can advise you more effectively than most here can.

Where I live we have a Canadian mechanic, so there must be a way to do it all, but you will be much better using a Mexican lawyer to handle things.
Retirement Communities
http://www.retirecommunities.com

Jerry@Ajijic

Sep 12, 2003, 6:14 AM

Post #6 of 28 (1938 views)

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Re: [Tuatha_de_Danann] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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As some of the other posters mentioned, the question is not can you get a FM3 with working papers, etc. The question is can you live on what a mechanic makes in Mexico. One reason we and most other people have older cars is that mechanical work here is so cheap. In the states we would have had to get a new car years ago. Here they fix things at a reasonable (very low) price and if they can not find the proper replacement the make something that will fit. When you go to PV next you need to check with the local mechanics, find out what they make and if, and I am very doubtful, you can live on that then proceed with your other questions.

Carol Schmidt

Sep 12, 2003, 2:47 PM

Post #7 of 28 (1895 views)

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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Forgot to mention, the official minimum wage in Mexico is around $4.20 U.S. A DAY! It varies slightly from area to area and within occupations, but a registered nurse or social worker only has a minimum wage of around $6.50 a day (journalists for a national medium have the highest at around $11 a day, if I recall rightly). So take that as your minimum.

Just as in the U.S. where there is so much sentiment against Mexicans taking jobs from U.S. citizens, there is a great deal of concern in Mexico about taking jobs away from Mexican citizens, and as has been said earlier, there are plenty of Mexican mechanics. Starting a business that will employ Mexican mechanics might get you more of a heads-up, but it doesn't sound as if you have that much capital to start.

Keep reading!

Carol Schmidt

Sep 12, 2003, 7:22 PM

Post #8 of 28 (1857 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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Carol Schmidt writes:
Forgot to mention, the official minimum wage in Mexico is around $4.20 U.S. A DAY! It varies slightly from area to area and within occupations, but a registered nurse or social worker only has a minimum wage of around $6.50 a day (journalists for a national medium have the highest at around $11 a day, if I recall rightly). So take that as your minimum.....

Puerto Vallarta falls into Geographical Area C, for which the general minimum wage is $40.30 MXP per day, equivalent to $3.67 USD at today's interbank exchange rate of 0.09114 USD/MXP. Auto mechanics are a listed profession, however, with a minimum daily wage in Geographical Area C of $61.00 MXP. There are also some specialty vehicle repair-related professions listed, such as automotive electrician ($57.90 MXP/day), auto body repairer ($57.55 MXP/day), auto painter ($56.50 MXP/day), and grease monkey ($52.35 MXP/day).

Of course an owner/operator of their own business could easily stand to make more than this, if (a) they have the required visa type and permits to operate a business in Mexico, and (b) they aren't underpriced by the competition and run out of business. Hiring employees to perform part or all of the work at the above wages is very attractive, but with the social security and other laws involved, as a foreigner you'd definitely need to be operating on a legal basis, and again the competition would serve to limit the amount charged for services.

(This post was edited by ET on Sep 12, 2003, 7:26 PM)

Rolly

Sep 13, 2003, 6:10 AM

Post #9 of 28 (1824 views)

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Re: [ET] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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Buried in ET's last post are the simple sounding words "...with the social security and other laws..." But they are not simple. They can be a quagmire beyond comprehension. I am still reeling from my dealings with the social security folks on my building project. The pay scale seems low, but you should be aware of the annual bonus requirements and the potentially very high cost of terminating an employee.

In short: there's a whole lot more to it than the minimum daily pay scale! If you are going to have employees, you need a good lawyer to lead you through the mess.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

TomG

Sep 13, 2003, 8:24 PM

Post #10 of 28 (1755 views)

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Re: [Rolly] PLEASE HELP ANY INFO APPRECIATED................

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"...with the social security and other laws..." ..... They can be a quagmire beyond comprehension. I am still reeling from my dealings with the social security folks on my building project. The pay scale seems low, but you should be aware of the annual bonus requirements and the potentially very high cost of terminating an employee.

Rolly;

A report on this and how it plays out would be very interesting and helpful. It would be great if you could include it in your building accounting as the last chapter.

tom

ex_navyordie

Sep 14, 2003, 1:12 AM

Post #11 of 28 (1744 views)

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ET, thanks for the very comprehensive reply............

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................but I have a specialty as an automotive electrician/techinician/ASE mechanic and intend to try and open up this business with a friend who is already a well established business owner, although his current business has nothing to do with cars and what we intend to do. I have a very good idea of what I can charge for labor on the work I do which I think your figures might be a bit on the low side only because this has to vary according to how quick and efficient a shop can be run down there. I would NOT hire up any mechanics, all the work will be done by me and my partner who has been a lifelong buddy. I also have a specialty in CAR STEREO, from the extremely elaborate to the very simple. I have seen some of the auto shops down there and believe me, the shops are not and would NOT be equipped in the manner I would hope to and am already capable of equipping with my own current shop tools. The vast majority of the shops I have seen down there are extremely ill-equipped and has the most primitive of tools. Although I will admit there a very few well setup tire change places, tuneup shops and oil change shops, oh yeah and a VERY few "decent" shops set off the beaten track. I currently have THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of dollars in USED specialty automotive tools and know if I can get them into PV, my business will flourish with the capabilities I will have. I also have a very rough idea of how much money guys make for doing car stereo installations and these figures are actually quite decent. MY problem will come in trying to import NEW electronics into the country (radios and so forth to sell to the public) and this will take some homework on my part once I get down there, actually I will have to get this figured out before I go down and have it really worked out well. My biggest concern is really having the ability to get my tools into the country, even if it requires paying a tariff (although again I have a very good friend who works for an import business down there) and then to be able to actually open up a shop, hopefully in my name and legally. I have lifelong friends who will be able to help me with getting paperwork "into people's names" if that becomes a necessity, but would like to be able to keep everything in my name if that is at all possible. I know I will be able to generate a "survivable) income there so that really is not a concern to me. My much more serious concerns fall more into the category of what I will be able to do and what I won't be able to do in regards to working. For example, does it make sense to have my "partner" open up a shop in advance of my arrival and act like he is "bringing me from the states to work for him", although the business will really be both of ours or quite possibly in my name somehow. I am looking for all the little tips and tricks and not necessarily the 100% MOST legal way to do these things amongst others. I am looking to see what all my possible options might be and then see what recourse I have should my ideas be unrealistic or simply impossible to do because of the way Mexico treats their "foreigners". Any and all replies would be helpful and I am heeding the reply mentioning about speaking with a Mexican attorney, this is something I will most undoubtedly be doing within the next month or in January after my (this) October trip down there. Thanks again to everyone who replied and I look forward to any further responses. I also need clarification on what I would need to do in order to be considered retired, do I actually have to be living off social security or can I simply have money in a US account and be able to draw from it monthly. If the latter is the case, do I HAVE to draw this sum monthly because someone will be keeping track of these transactions or is it not looked at in such a manner. What is really meant when they say a "retirement" visa I guess is my question and what criteria am I expected to meet in order to get myself considered retired.

Best regards

Gilbert Martinez

Madam ZZ

Sep 14, 2003, 3:59 AM

Post #12 of 28 (1737 views)

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Re: [ex_navyordie] ET, thanks for the very comprehensive reply............

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Geta a lawyer and incorporate. It takes 2 to make a company so it seems you could do that. You have to show proof of income with about 3 bank statements. Get a cash flow set up into your account, even if it's your money. FM3 is not miuch of a problem if you have a LAWYER, PROOF OF CASH FLOW and a willingness to hire local HELP! They want foreigners to come and create jobs, not take them.

mrchuck

Sep 14, 2003, 7:52 AM

Post #13 of 28 (1718 views)

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Re: [ex_navyordie] ET, thanks for the very comprehensive reply............

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You know, what I read here about you and "your shop", and you not hiring anY Mexican Nationals to work, just you and your other foreign partner, sends out alarms to me. It sounds like you just want to immigrate into Mexico, set up a business for you to work in, and "retire here", namely working.

Well, The Migra office will see thru this "ploy". They get this type of "gringo working" in Mexico, every day.

So, go no farther, get down there and get an ATTORNEY, set up a "LEGIT" business, hire some Mexicans to work for you. Train them.

If you do not do this, you will be hassled and eventually picked up by Migra.

This is exactly why Migra is here. They just love to find gringos in a "hush-hush" business, posing as being "retired".

No saludos here, mc

ex_navyordie

Sep 14, 2003, 10:48 AM

Post #14 of 28 (1695 views)

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MC, you make it sound like a crime for someone.............

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...................to want to emigrate into a country where we accept hundreds of their nationals almost daily. Excuse me for falling in love with Mexico and wanting to immigrate into that country. I have something to offer the community, so I am definitely insulted by your statement which I am there to "take" as opposed to offer my services which are excellent by American and Mexican standards alike. I am no stranger to PV and have spoken with countless individuals there who say a "good mechanic" (which I am not because I am an EXCELLENT mechanic) and honest is very hard to come by. I say I wouldn't need to hire any nationals because quite honestly I want to keep the business small and manageable in such a way that I won't have to be responsible for too many people. I do NOT intend to take jobs from anyone. If there are people in PV who are able to put a shop togther in PV in the manner I have described I can't see how I could possibly be taking work from them. All they need to do is put their money together and start the business, my presence wouldn't prevent this in any shape manner or form. Your whole post borders insulting and makes it seem like I am trying to "get over" on the Mexican people so I do take offense to that regardless if that is your intention or not.

I will say thank you though for the ONE piece of advice you give which appears to have some merit (and has been repeated in some form or another by others) and that was, " So, go no farther, get down there and get an ATTORNEY, set up a "LEGIT" business, hire some Mexicans to work for you. Train them". I have no apologies for wanting to improve my quality of life and wanting to go to Mexico to work or to semi-retire whichever suits me best. The "hush-hush" business you are describing doesn't describe me and even if it did I still have plenty to offer any community I would move into. I f I had to hire some locals to work in my shop in order to get it going those individuals will be much better off for the rest of their lives with the outstanding training I would have to offer them. As for why Migra exists, I can't speak for that because I am not a Mexican National, although I would eventually love to seek dual citizenship there which I here is possible after some years of being established and the necessary red tape I will have to endure to do that.

Again, I could simply be reading into your post with the wrong intentions and being somewhat defensive, but regardless of what you might think of me, you ask ANYONE be it Mexican or an any American for that matter and they will tell you I am a "giver" and NOT a "taker".

No saludos from here as well!!

ex_navyordie

Sep 14, 2003, 11:19 AM

Post #15 of 28 (1687 views)

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One last quick note MrChuck..................

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....................although it appears you would much rather not see me go to Mexico to work, semi-retire or to retire that's fine. I find it very strange how very excited and anxious each and every friend (many of these people are closer to me than my natural family) I have down there is in anticipation of my inevitable arrival, which is inevitable regardless of what MrChuck might think. They don't consider my presence unwanted and all the people who know me PERSONALLY would love to have me as both their neighbor and their guest anytime and any day. The more I read your post, the more I get the impression you dislike Americans or is it just me you dislike for whatever reason because I might actually end up in acountry where there are already thousands of Americans. I am hopeful I won't pollute your precious (vision of) Mexico with my presence, it's funny how my American dollar doesn't seem to be considered much of a pollutant though, it is accepted everywhere.

Thanks again to everyone who offered up their good advice and helpful personal opinions. I was actually starting to find this board a very pleasant place to get info and possibly meet some people with some good insights, but like anything I guess you will occasionally get a response that seems to come out of left field or is offered up by someone who would just assume you stay put because only THEY know what is good.

alex .

Sep 15, 2003, 7:59 AM

Post #16 of 28 (1618 views)

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Re: [ex_navyordie] you are missing some key concepts

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In the US , one combines a particular skill set with a particular need in an identified market and opens up shop. You have all your permits in order and pay your taxes on time. That combined with the appropriate business know-how and you have a recipe for success. You have all of this already ,however, these are only necessary but insufficient conditions for your Mexican venture. Here is the recipe for turning a great idea into a complete disaster:

1. Fail to aquire the correct immigration status. At first it will appear , to you, that you are pulling a fast one on Migracion. They will be quite aware of your status thanks to tips provided by other businessmen who either perceive you as a threat or an "opportunity".

2. Put real property "in someone else's name". Another attempt at an end run around a well established system. This works fine, until your business becomes successful, then you will see how greed works.

3. You are careless about the attorney that you select to handle your affairs. I should have put this number one. All the traditional lawyer jokes aside, this can be the beginning of a lot of problems. Good attorneys (I recommend that you contract more than one) can shield you from problems associated with 1) and 2). An attorney that does not have your best interests at heart can expedite the problems of 1) and 2) and become the eventual owner of your successful business, with none of the upfront investment, as you are being escorted out of the country. You have to do alot of homework here, do not rely on anecdotal stories or recommendations of friends. Importing high end electronic goods is the least of your worries, really.

As is often said, you won't be in Kansas anymore......

Suerte,
Alex

(This post was edited by alex . on Sep 15, 2003, 8:00 AM)

ex_navyordie

Sep 15, 2003, 9:39 AM

Post #17 of 28 (1599 views)

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Honestly Alex, this is some of the BEST advice I have gotten to date.........

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..................because you point out some things which I really didn't perceive would be obstacles, but explained quite sensibly how easily they can become one. I hoestly wouldn't have thought that "my attorney" could actually work against me and for himself, but what you say makes a ton of sense!! Like any good venture this will take a tremendous amount of research, patience and time. I really appreciate your reply, it really has gotten me thinking and certainly has me viewing this whole "venture" with a slightly more educated set of eyes. I don't mean to sound like it is my direct intention to subvert "the system", although sometimes it is the quickest way to get where you would like to go, but many times as you point out very eloquently it could also be the most reckless as well. I appreciate all your insights and all your points are noted with the highest marks. Thanks again and I guess I will be looking for a lawyer or two next month when I go down for one of my "visits". What you have said makes perfect sens e and believe me when I tell you they are being listened to with both ears and eyes that are wide open. I don't pretend this will be an easy process and that is why I have started it well before I make any "deliberate actions" to start this tedious process. People like you are invaluable to guys like me who are trying to make sure we go about this the "right way", as you say the LAST THING I would want is to be financially and even emotionally committed to Mexico, only to have her turn her back on me because I didn't do things "her way". I respect that andwant to make sure I don't do anything to jeopardize my inevitable "end goal". I know I am not asking for or expecting the impossible, but I can see things may not play out quite the way I would like them to and I have to figure out for myself (and my family) if I can "adapt" to all the changes, adjustments, obstacles and differences that are coming to light as I try to make my move more of a reality.

Best regards,

Gilbert Martinez

Kip

Sep 15, 2003, 9:59 AM

Post #18 of 28 (1591 views)

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Re: [ex_navyordie] Honestly Alex, this is some of the BEST advice I have gotten to date.........

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See there kiddo? There are some good guys out there with great info. I would think having Martinez for a last name certainly can't hurt anything either! You're not going to stand out, at least on paper . like a Smith or a Jones.

You're doin' fine, hang in there.

Kip
kip

hoping 2

Sep 15, 2003, 9:34 PM

Post #19 of 28 (1530 views)

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Re: [Kip] Honestly Alex, this is some of the BEST advice I have gotten to date.........

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I am a professional planning on starting a practice down there if possible. I have read everything I could possibly find including the recommendations mentioned here. Does anyone know; how many employees, what attorney's fees run and how do you determine a reputable attorney?

alex .

Sep 16, 2003, 8:05 AM

Post #20 of 28 (1498 views)

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Re: [hoping 2] I defer to the esteemed Ms.Rose on this one

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I do so because I learned the hard way, and still find locating a good attorney difficult. She knows the website of established practices, what is it www.Hubble & something or another??

In my limited experience the fees charged were by the complexity of the case , not by the hour. In one case I contracted a lawyer for a fixed fee of $250 and estimated time of completion was 15 days. The fee was paid in advance and , other than a receipt issued, no work was done. So that was a lesson learned: don't go with someone who is obviously lowballing the cost to perform on a complicated case. I looked for another lawyer in the paginas amarrilas (yellow pages) and got quoted $5000 USD for the same job. I elected not to go with that one. I then went on the recommendation of a neighbor to a lawyer with a good reputation, known in the community, held a top position in the local penal system. This time it was $1100 up front and over the course of one year the appropriate paperwork was filed with the court system but the court dates were blown off and the case was shelved. Turned out the lawyer had let some convicted criminals escape in exchange for an "exit fee", he got caught, fired (it was in the local paper, I'm pretty sure I still have the electronic version of the article) and is now practicing in Newport Beach , California. So he was too busy to work my case. Another lesson learned, though I'm not sure exactly what it is. So I got a 3rd lawyer on the recommendation of a man I met at the Consulate General who just successfully completed a nearly identical case. This lawyer was a specialist in this particular discipline. I think that is the key: get a specialist. Same as you would a doctor. #3 charged me $750, half in advance and half on completion. He did what he said he would do and it turned out in our favor.

In a completely unrelated case a lawyer charged $1000 USD, half in advance. He then, on his own ,sued the party we were dealing with for a much greater sum than we were asking. The party then settled with the lawyer directly, thinking that he was acting on our behalf. The lawyer then stopped our suit by falsifying our signatures (the clerk of the court actually watched him do it) and didn't tell us. My wife got suspicious after several months, went to the courthouse, found the documents and obtained certified copies of the forgeries. When the lawyer called demanding the $500 balance due (not knowing that we were on to him) we "suggested" that our certified copies were worth precisely that amount, que casualidad. Haven't heard from him since. The lesson this time (if you all are still following the tale this far) is that YOU have to follow behind the lawyer to make sure that he is doing his job. YOU have to go to the Palacio and verify that the documents get filed properly, YOU have to discover when the court dates are and which Judge is presiding, YOU have to track any jurisdiction changes. YOU get the impression that you may as well handle the case yourself, however the System requires that you use the services of an attorney.

I could describe how witnesses providing false testimony enter the picture, but that is beyond the scope of this contribution.

Alex

(This post was edited by alex . on Sep 16, 2003, 8:48 AM)

jennifer rose

Sep 16, 2003, 8:12 AM

Post #21 of 28 (1496 views)

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Re: [alex .] I defer to the esteemed Ms.Rose on this one

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In Reply To

She knows the website of established practices, what is it www.Hubble & something or another??

Martindale-Hubbell http://www.martindale-hubbell.com/xp/Martindale/home.xml

Rolly

Sep 16, 2003, 9:18 AM

Post #22 of 28 (1476 views)

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My touuble with a lawyer story

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My trouble with a lawyer story is a bit simpler than Alex's saga -- thank goodness.

We had trouble from a lawyer neighbor on our recent building project. When we began painting the iron work on the front of the house, he called the police to stop us because he didn't like the smell of the paint. The police came and determined that we were within the law. After several more calls and visits, the police told the man not to call them again. So he called INM to report me as an illegal. He also reported my Mexican partner as being a Mexican non-citizen illegally in Mexico – this despite having known my partner all his life. The migra told the guy that they knew me and that my papers were in order. They did come to see Enrique who showed them his Mexican passport. They apologized and went away grumbling about having their time wasted by a hateful neighbor.

This is more than a lawyer story. It shows how much trouble can be stirred up by a neighbor who doesn’t like what you are doing or is suspicious of your activities or legal status.

But this is not a uniquely Mexican phenomenon. Today many people of near-eastern ancestry in the USA are facing the same problems.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

wendy devlin

Sep 16, 2003, 4:12 PM

Post #23 of 28 (1439 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Other troubles...

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Well, my little story is not about a Mexican lawyer...sorry;^)

But it is similiar to Rolly's in many ways.

Although that theme repeated itself in many other ways at many other times.

We found out, over time, in some little towns, that people (neighbours, so called friends, and even 'relatives') are often, ratting out each other to the police, accusing others of theft, failing to pay child support and worse.

And the police were constantly hauling people off to jail...in the backs of pick-ups, sometimes for a 100 miles This often involved jailing the person, usually for short periods of time, until the 'truth' came out...and this truth usually always involved aspects of jealousy and/or hatefulness.

Although it seemed to me, in some of the situations that I witnessed, that using the police, was a form of social control...for example, one woman that I know, was forever informing on some one or other, whenever they didn't do what she wanted them to. This in effect, using the system to 'punish' the person.

Although these things may not happen to you personally...it is happening.

Wendy

(This post was edited by wendy devlin on Sep 16, 2003, 6:03 PM)

hoping 2

Sep 16, 2003, 4:47 PM

Post #24 of 28 (1430 views)

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Re: [wendy devlin] Other troubles...

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Thank you everybody for their contributions. I am newbie. And thanks to all of you- even considering the current French-American relations-relocating to the south of France is looking very good

alex .

Sep 17, 2003, 7:58 AM

Post #25 of 28 (1390 views)

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Re: [hoping 2] Don't give up on Mexico

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not everyone is as careless and as easily duped as I was. Consider me a worst case scenario. Heck, I fell for the ol' switching-a-dollar-bill-for-the 20-I-gave the-waiter trick in a bar/disco. Once. I never experienced that before, nor heard about it so I wasn't expecting it. "A beer is 3 dollars, señor, not one dollar", and I actually tipped the guy extra because of my embarrasment of handing him what I thought was a 20 (and it was!). So that beer cost me something like 25 dollars. (Amortized over the many beers I've had since it isn't so bad 8<) . I write of my misfortunes not because I enjoy sharing what a dope I am , rather, that SOME good will come out of it for someone else. I'm working on my karma account , you see.

Lawyer bashing wasn't my intent, Lic. Gustavo Alcocer in Tijuana did very well by me, for a reasonable fee. My life, and that of my wife and daughter , is forever changed for the better due to his efforts. He didn't have to work so hard for so little, but he and his team actually have a heart.

Alex

(This post was edited by alex . on Sep 17, 2003, 8:07 AM)

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