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hunteradvisor

Sep 14, 2010, 6:05 AM

Post #1 of 22 (8295 views)

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Mexican Will

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September is "Wills" month and supposedly some Notarios are even discounting their prices to encourage people to make a will so their assets will pass through probate more quickly and efficiently.
I have been very derelict in not creating a will to transfer 2 properties and shares in a corporation to my children upon my death. In working with a Mexican Attorney and Accountant, I realize the legal planning I've done in the US will not cover Mexico, but my advisors in Mexico say I can transfers US Assets using a Mexico will to Mexico. Interesting?
The issue is I leave for Africa in 6 weeks and will be there for several months, if this trip is anything like the last one 16 years ago.....well let's just say I want to have all of my estate planning in order before I leave. I am in the US now and want to create a Mexican will without flying back to sign it in front of a Notario. I'm wondering if it is possible to use an Apostille, or overnight the documents and have the notarized in the US, or if there is some other way I can create a Mexican will from the US?
To everyone else, you might want to take care of this before you are in a predicament that makes it difficult.
Thanks in advance,
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

gpkgto

Sep 15, 2010, 8:48 AM

Post #2 of 22 (8200 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Mexican Will

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Contact your closest Mexican consulate. Some of them have Mexican Notario services (so I have heard). A US will should be valid in Mexico but the probate process will be more complicated.

hunteradvisor

Sep 15, 2010, 8:55 AM

Post #3 of 22 (8196 views)

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Re: [gpkgto] Mexican Will

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Great Advice!
Thank you,
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

jerezano

Sep 22, 2010, 7:29 AM

Post #4 of 22 (7924 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Mexican Will

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Hello hunteradvisor,

Yes, your advice is correct. A Mexican Will can cover US assets. However the process is a legal quandary, very expensive and here in Mexico very time consuming. It could take several years to accomplish. Your heirs may be time strapped as well as cash strapped.

My personal advice is don't even try it. You should have a US will covering your US assets and a Mexican will covering any real property here in Mexico. Personal property here in Mexico can be ignored because it will disappear with or without a will.

Please think this over again.

Hasta luego, jerezano.

gpkgto

Sep 22, 2010, 12:37 PM

Post #5 of 22 (7887 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Mexican Will

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Also, do not ever inform the other country's authorities of the exisitence of two wills. In most (probably all) US jurisdictions, a later-made Mexican will would automatically revoke the US will.

johanson

Sep 22, 2010, 3:37 PM

Post #6 of 22 (7858 views)

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Re: [gpkgto] Mexican Will

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Gee, that's not what I was told by either my US attorney who created my US will referencing my Mexican will, nor my Mexican attorney who wrote my Mexican will referencing my US will.

Rather each will covers the assets I have in each country and states that I have assets in the other country and that the will in the other country covers the distribution of assets in that country.

But rather than listening to me or other persons not qualified to practice law, I would seek legal advice from a cpmpetant attorney

jerezano

Sep 22, 2010, 6:00 PM

Post #7 of 22 (7831 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Mexican Will

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Hello hunteradvisor,

Isabel you are in trouble. Your Will problems are real and as you, yourself, point out a mess.

You asked:>>>>>>>or if there is some other way I can create a Mexican will from the US?<<<<<<<<<

The quick and practical answer is NO, not possible. Only a legal expert in both Napoleonic and English Common Law could ever come up with a yes answer. And even then his opinon would be challenged by other legal experts.

Your question about using a Mexican Will to transfer US assets to control of your Mexican Will is that yes, this is legally possible, just as the opposite is true. But if you think legal processes in the United States take a long time just try a legal process, no matter how simple, here in Mexico. You could be old and doddering and completely without money by the time it is accomplished.

As one other poster has indicated he got good legal advice from both his US attorney and his Mexican attorney. Your Mexican Will should mention the existence of the US Will and the US Will should do the same specifying that each Will is to cover only the property within each nation. The other way, also recommended by another poster is just keep mum about the existence of the Will in the other country. That fact will never be uncovered unless you are extremely wealthy like Howard Huges who died in Mexico (and his body spirited out of Mexico as I recall) having residences in both the United State and Mexico and in the US in several different states. There, as you probably recall, all hell broke loose because attorneys and state tax authorities could all see the enormous charges possible by taking legal actions.

Good luck and come back from Africa safe and sound.

Hasta luego, jerezano.

hunteradvisor

Sep 23, 2010, 4:30 AM

Post #8 of 22 (7785 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Mexican Will

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This has been a great and important thread, so glad it's getting some attention.
The Mexican Consulate website for Boston states that they have a Notario on staff and that they can prepare wills. Now, there is no way to reach them in advance by phone and it may be those services are limited to Mexican Citizens who reside in the New England states? We will be making a field trip to find out.
I have the deed to one property titled in my name only, the other property is jointly owned and I'm really not sure, but think the Notario in GTO still has that deed. The Mexican corporation that holds the third property is a whole other animal. We are in touch with the accountant regarding the best method to arrange for shares to be given to our 5 children upon our deaths. Voting vs Non-Voting, etc. "What webs we weave"! I am sure at great time and expense we will become educated on yet another cross border challenge that will be useful to the participants of this forum.
Thanks so much for the continued input and ideas.
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

gpkgto

Sep 23, 2010, 6:26 AM

Post #9 of 22 (7771 views)

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Re: [johanson] Mexican Will

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Referencing an outside document or another will is certianly valid in some US jurisdictions--so you are probably fine. There are 51 jurisdictions in the US (wills are a matter of state law in the US) so as long as you get good legal advice many things are possible. Problems arise when someone with an interest or a claimed interest decides to challenge a will. Children of first marriages come to mind. Anyway, two wills that are both probated in both jurisdictions can only complicate things--and run up the legal fees!!

The US legal system can handle two wills but I wouldn't want to try to probate my US will in Mexico. The Noatrio fees, legal translations and/or apostilles, etc. would be a pain in the "a" for the heirs and a waste of dollars and pesos. Personally, I have a US and a Mexican will and I have instructed my beneficiaries to handle each will separately.

hunteradvisor

Sep 28, 2010, 3:59 PM

Post #10 of 22 (7504 views)

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Re: [gpkgto] Mexican Will

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Just returned from the Mexican Consulate's office in Boston for preparation of our Mexican Will. So far so good! We took copies of both houses located in Guanjuato and the corporation which holds Real Estate in Jalisco, along with our fm3 and passports. We should hear from the notario soon and were given an appointment to return 10/20 for signing. The maximum cost will be $294.00 I didn't inquire about the September is "Wills Month", discount.
The following is advice ($150 worth) from Mexcio Advisor, they're located in Oregon, but facilitate tax and estate planning for US and Canadian residents of Mexico:
US and Mexico recognize each others wills. US revocable trusts are often the beneficiaries of your Mexican trusts for property in the restricted zone. A Mexican will can direct the trustee to transfer the property to a US trust, however generally most of my clients will direct the trustee to sell property and deposit in the trust. There are Mexican tax issues when the beneficiaries, such as a US trust, are not Mexican residents, a 25% flat tax on the value of what is being transferred, so it might be worthwhile to explore possibility of transferring assets now if they will appreciate significantly down the line. This can be a complicated subject and it is precisely the are that I am putting all efforts for business so let me know if you want to discuss further....
Also, and this is very important, you want to coordinate both wills, or otherwise you might end up revoking one of your estate plans.
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

hunteradvisor

Oct 27, 2010, 6:21 AM

Post #11 of 22 (6975 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Mexican Will

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I want to thank the person that suggested going to the Consulate's office (Boston) to have my Mexican Will Prepared.
It was very easy, first appointment was to pick up the proper forms, second was to deliver them and the third was to sign the Wills. $295 usd for each of us. One thing they required and it's not worth arguing is bringing an interpreter who will read the will to you out loud to make sure you concur with it. Although we read and speak spanish, it made the staff at the Consulate more comfortable and the whole process very easy. We called on a friend of our daughter's who teaches spanish and gave her a nice tip for her trouble. Boston is one hour from our house in the states where our abogado in Mexico is two hours each way, so this was great! Off to Africa now and hoping this Will is not needed anytime soon, so glad to have it done.
Holly
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

tonynico

Oct 27, 2010, 7:57 AM

Post #12 of 22 (6954 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Mexican Will

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I read somewhere that even if you have a Mexican will it must be registered with the court in Mexico if it is to be valid. Just having the will is not good enough. This is only what I have read and I can't even remember where I read it.
I just wanted to mention this just in case it is accurate.

Tony

gpkgto

Oct 27, 2010, 8:00 AM

Post #13 of 22 (6951 views)

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Re: [tonynico] Mexican Will

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The notario who writes a Mexican will has the obligation to regisiter it in the city where it was made and he keeps a copy in his personal register. If the will is not properly registered, I believe it is invalid.

amber

Oct 28, 2010, 4:28 AM

Post #14 of 22 (6860 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Mexican Will

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The information given me by my notario at the time I purchased my house some 15 years ago is that I do not need a mexican will. I am a parttime resident of Mexico with an FM3. My deed states that my named children will own my property on my death and I have a US plated vehicle. The only other property I own in Mexico are the furnishings and personal property in my house , which are easily disposed of with a garage sale, and a small account with Lloyds where my daughter is listed as co-owner..
Since the notario passed up the opportunity to make more money off me by telling me this I tend to believe him.

sioux4noff

Oct 28, 2010, 10:02 PM

Post #15 of 22 (6792 views)

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Re: [amber] Mexican Will

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I know it is a slippery slope reporting on what your friends were told, but...
we had an American friend who was very cautious and wanted to make certain his paperwork was in order. He consulted an attoreny and was told he did not need a Mexican will. He was told that the contents of the house are considered part of the house, as far as the beneficiary of your fidiecomiso is concerned.
He died recently and I have not followed up with his (Mexican) widow to see if he was advised correctly.

amber

Oct 29, 2010, 3:49 AM

Post #16 of 22 (6784 views)

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Re: [tonynico] Mexican Will

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Sorry to hear you have lost a friend. As we age our friends get fewer and dearer to us. Please post any information you may hear about whether things worked out Ok for the widow. I am sure there are others beside myself who would like to know if the property transfer gets accomplished. This being Mexico I realize this may take some time.

gpkgto

Oct 29, 2010, 10:31 AM

Post #17 of 22 (6737 views)

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Re: [amber] Mexican Will

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A family member (I think only parents, a spouse or children) can be named as the "beneficiary" of a house deed in Mexico and no will is necessary. A non-related person may not be so named in a deed--so gay home-owners need wills to pass property to their partners. With a trust, anyone can be named as beneficiary.

mazbook1

Oct 30, 2010, 1:04 PM

Post #18 of 22 (6668 views)

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Re: [gpkgto] Mexican Will

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One sneaky little thing that the banks here never tell you, is that if you die without a Mexican will, your beneficiary only gets 75% of the money in your Mexican bank account. If you die with a Mexican will, your beneficiary (must be the same one as named for the bank, and now named in the will also) gets 100% of the money in the account.

For those with significant funds in a Mexican bank (I don't know about investment accounts like with Lloyds), this is a darn good reason to have a Mexican will.

Just a "heads-up".

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Oct 30, 2010, 1:05 PM)

chinagringo

Oct 30, 2010, 1:18 PM

Post #19 of 22 (6662 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Mexican Will

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May seem like a dumb question but why would someone avoid having a Mexican will? Seems to be that it is just taking care of business and hopefully minimizing the problems that one's surviving spouse/partner or children might experience.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

jerezano

Oct 30, 2010, 5:55 PM

Post #20 of 22 (6620 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Mexican Will

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Hello mazbook1,

You're right! The banks have never told me that if I die without a Mexican will, my beneficiary will only get 75% of the account. As a hard-headed man of Scots-Irish ancestry I find that hard to believe. Can you tell us where you got this information? I would like to follow up on this.

As ever, jerezano

mazbook1

Oct 30, 2010, 6:19 PM

Post #21 of 22 (6609 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Mexican Will

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jerezano, My notario told me this when I mentioned to him that I had a Mexican bank account (I'm in business in México) and really didn't need a Mexican will as I had a beneficiary on both my bank account and my fideicomiso, and those were my only two real assets in México. He said the fideicomiso was safe without a Mexican will, but the bank would take 25% from the beneficiary if I didn't have one. I verified this with the bank (Santander) officer and promptly told my notario to go ahead and draw up as simple a will as was possible.

jerezano

Oct 31, 2010, 9:14 AM

Post #22 of 22 (6557 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Mexican Will

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Hello all,

mazbook 1 said:>>>>>>>jerezano, My notario told me this when I mentioned to him that I had a Mexican bank account (I'm in business in México) and really didn't need a Mexican will as I had a beneficiary on both my bank account and my fideicomiso, and those were my only two real assets in México. He said the fideicomiso was safe without a Mexican will, but the bank would take 25% from the beneficiary if I didn't have one. I verified this with the bank (Santander) officer and promptly told my notario to go ahead and draw up as simple a will as was possible.<<<<<<<<

Thanks mazbook 1. This is something that is important to all of us who have a Mexican Bank Account. We should all go to our bank and check that they follow or don't follow the practice of Santander. Hound Dawg, did you know this?

lHasta luego, jerezano.