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Starcradle

Oct 2, 2009, 8:07 AM

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Marriage

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Hello, everyone. I am new to this board and have been reading through many pages of informative threads, seeking responses to my own inquiries. I may very well be asking a multitude of questions in the upcoming weeks and months as I prepare for my imminent move. I ask that you please bear with me if any of them have been answered on previous occasions.

I am an American citizen marrying a Mexican national. Our plan is to marry and live in Mexico. However, I have been wondering if it would be easier for him to travel here on a tourist visa and marry me. We would return to Mexico together immediately thereafter.

Would this be considered fraudulent? We have no desire to do things illegally.

(This post was edited by Starcradle on Oct 2, 2009, 8:10 AM)

Carron

Oct 2, 2009, 9:03 AM

Post #2 of 39 (1372 views)

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Re: [Starcradle] Marriage

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If he can get the tourist visa, it would probably simplify things a lot if you married in the US, then returned to Mexico with properly apostilled copies of your marriage license. See numerous previous threads for in-depth discussion of the many various issues you both may face.

jerezano

Oct 2, 2009, 9:07 AM

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Re: [Starcradle] Marriage

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Hello,

Marriage in México is a rather complicated affair with lots of red tape and permissions necessary.

If your fiance can get a tourist visa it would be easiest for him to visit you and for you to get married here in the USA. And no, it would not be illegal. Your marriage would be recognized in Mexico as well as internationally throughout the world.

If he cannot get the visa to join you in the United State, then there used to be the possibility that he join you somewhere on the border and you two could get married in a safe haven on the United States side. There used to be such an arrangement in Laredo since some 15 years ago a US citizen I knew married his Mexican girl friend on the US side without her actually crossing through immigration. He found out about this possible arrangement through the American Citizens Service Section of the American Consulate in Monterrey.

If that possibility under new rules is not available then you have to bite the bullet and wade through all the red tape of a marriage in Mexico--or horror! live in a unión libre which is quite common here in Mexico. Common law marriage we would term it in the US.

Search these forums for Marriage etc and you will find several postings from Jennifer Rose detailing the laws here in Mexico. One final quirk is that in most jurisdictions of Mexico your Mexican spouse-to-be cannot marry anyone even a Mexican citizen without a Cartilla Militar (military service card). Talk about red tape!

Good luck. I hope your fiance can get the tourist visa.

Hasta pronto. jerezano.
Magna gasoline at frozen $7.72 p/l and at 3.785 liters/gal. and $13 p/dollar is now costing $2.25 dollars/gal. More pesos per dollar cheaper gas & viceversa.

gpkisner

Oct 2, 2009, 10:01 AM

Post #4 of 39 (1343 views)

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Re: [Carron] Marriage

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Also, your US marriage will not be recognized in Mexico until you register at the Registro Civil where you live--hence the need for the apostilled marriage certificate. Since you willwant to get an FM3 visa, you should register the marriage immediately upon arrival in Mexico.

Zorba

Oct 2, 2009, 10:04 AM

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Re: [jerezano] Marriage

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I will be marrying a Mexican woman. I am Canadian. I plan to get married in Mexico because that is where I will be living and, if things go wrong, where I will be getting divorced. Although the Mexican system may have red tape, I like the fact that they have a pre-nup arrangement built into the system. You can marry with your assets separated or joined. If married as assets separated, what is yours is yours. Even after you marry, whatever is in your name (bank accounts, land, vehicles) is yours regardless of whether or not you obtained them after marriage. Of course, what was yours before marriage definitely remains yours.

This is my understanding and was told to me by my lawyer in Mexico. I insisted that he must be wrong about the assets after marriage not being divided up, but he affirmed it. I am going to check further. Perhaps someone here knows better?

Personally, if anybody is unwilling to marry with assets separated, it's a deal breaker.

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Starcradle

Oct 2, 2009, 10:09 AM

Post #6 of 39 (1340 views)

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Re: Marriage

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Thank you so much for your responses!

I just read the following on the VisaPro website:

Many foreign nationals want to know if they can come to the US on a tourist visa to get married, but with the intention of going back to their home country after the marriage.

Nothing says that you can't get married while on a tourist visa, but this can be tricky. You can get married and go back home before your visa expires, but you'll need hard evidence to prove to the CBP officials that you intend to return to your home country. You have to come armed with lease agreements, letters from employers, and above all, a return ticket. The more evidence you show that proves your intention to return home, the better your chances will be of getting through the border.

Also:

Marriage should not be immediately after you land in the U.S.

It is generally not advisable that you get married immediately after landing in the US. If the marriage happens all of a sudden, and you can prove that, you may be alright. But if you entered with preconceived marriage plans, then it is recommended that you get married only after spending a reasonable period of time in the US on your tourist visa.

Comments?

We do not wish to be dishonest, yet I am wondering how they would know that we were married unless we personally informed them?

(This post was edited by Starcradle on Oct 2, 2009, 10:39 AM)

esperanza / Moderator

Oct 2, 2009, 10:56 AM

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Re: [Starcradle] Marriage

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Starcradle, the biggest obstacle to planning your marriage while your fiance is in the States is his need for a tourist visa. It's all but impossible for a young Mexican man to get one, and the cost just to make the application is high. This link will give you much more useful and accurate information: http://www.usembassy-mexico.gov/eng/evisas.html.

Here's another link, this time with information about marrying a Mexican national in Mexico:
http://www.mexperience.com/.../getting_married.htm.

Best wishes to both of you!

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on Oct 2, 2009, 10:56 AM)

jerezano

Oct 2, 2009, 11:12 AM

Post #8 of 39 (1322 views)

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Hello,

That web site said:>>>>>It is generally not advisable that you get married immediately after landing in the US. If the marriage happens all of a sudden, and you can prove that, you may be alright. But if you entered with preconceived marriage plans, then it is recommended that you get married only after spending a reasonable period of time in the US on your tourist visa.<<<<<<<

Why is it not advisable? Why cannot a tourist enter with preconceived marriage plans? There is nothing in the tourist visa which prevents an immediate marriage. Does it affect future plans for your spouse to become a citizen? Does your husband-to-be want to acquire US citizenship?

And you are probably right. How would Immigration and Nationalization Service (I can't remember its new name) know right away that you were married. Your spouse could be back in Mexico before they even find out. And nothing about immigration would affect the legality of your marriage.

You should try to check out why the quoted statement was made. The marriage should in no way affect immediate plans which are to move to Mexico. It just might affect future citizenship plans. Not yours but his.

You should also check out future plans for support. As one poster here pointed out because of estate concerns he plans to marry in Mexico because of the bienes separados possibilities. That possibility is also available in the US but with a lot of lawyer work to develop the marriage contract. But the first thing you will have to worry about is whether your new husbands income will be sufficient to support you, yourself. You, yourself, will not be permitted to work. Or whether your wealth is sufficient to provide for your visa into Mexico until you can get your documents in order to live permanently in Mexico as a spouse of a working Mexican. To obtain that right could take considerable time. Of course you could enter Mexico on a tourist permit which is good for six months. It would involve a return to the US at the end of that period and supposedly a 72 hour stay (not enforced) before reentering Mexico on a new tourist visa.

Again read what Jennifer Rose has written here on the forums about marriage in Mexico.

Hasta pronto. jerezano.
Magna gasoline at frozen $7.72 p/l and at 3.785 liters/gal. and $13 p/dollar is now costing $2.25 dollars/gal. More pesos per dollar cheaper gas & viceversa.

Starcradle

Oct 2, 2009, 11:32 AM

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Thank you for the response and accompany links, esperanza!

Jerezano, there are no plans, either in the imminent or distant future, to reside within the United States. My fiance has a good work history and an established career in Mexico. The desire to marry in his country has nothing whatsoever to do with separation of bienes. Indeed, we are morally opposed to that philosophy. We simply believed that marriage in Mexico would be the simpler option. Now I am beginning to wonder!

If he traveled here and we married, we would be returning to Mexico together. However, the trip would be an exceedingly brief one. Would that potentially raise any suspicions insofar as his intentions? He recently traveled here and stayed for one week. However, being utterly naive to all of this, I have no idea how long his tourist visa is valid.

I have been conducting inordinate amounts of research regarding this entire process, and I readily confess to being overwhelmed. I am endeavoring to manage my stress levels, yet this can be an arduous task, most especially when I read conflicting information.

esperanza / Moderator

Oct 2, 2009, 12:31 PM

Post #10 of 39 (1296 views)

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Re: [Starcradle] Marriage

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AHA! If he already has a tourist visa (and many are given for as much as 10 years), then he can go back to the USA and you can be married.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

mazbook1

Oct 2, 2009, 1:22 PM

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Re: [esperanza] Marriage

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I agree with esperanza. IF your fiancé already has a U.S. visa (lazer visa), then get married in the U.S. and return to México whenever you wish. Legal marriage in the U.S. is MUCH simpler than a foreigner - Mex. citizen legal marriage is in México.

Instant marriage in the U.S. and a quick return to México will not affect your or his status with either the U.S. government or the Mexican government. As a matter of fact, a friend of mine just did exactly this with quite satisfactory results.

IF your fiancé DOESN'T HAVE a U.S. visa already, get married in México. It really isn't that difficult, just a bunch of silly bureaucratic nonsense. I was told all the horror stories, yet married a Mexican citizen here and other than a bunch of time-consuming running around to different government offices, it wasn't that difficult…but way more difficult than getting married in the U.S.

Starcradle

Oct 2, 2009, 5:37 PM

Post #12 of 39 (1233 views)

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Re: [jerezano] Marriage

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In Reply To

Quote

You should try to check out why the quoted statement was made. The marriage should in no way affect immediate plans which are to move to Mexico. It just might affect future citizenship plans. Not yours but his.

I have attempted to do so, yet the only information I have discovered thus far are continued contentions that entering the country on a tourist visa with intent to marry is fraudulent. I question how this can be the case when our objective is not to circumvent immigration laws, but to marry and immediately leave the country.

(This post was edited by Starcradle on Oct 2, 2009, 5:38 PM)

jerezano

Oct 2, 2009, 5:46 PM

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Re: [esperanza] Marriage

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Hello,

Yep, that is the key. If he already has a tourist visa for the USA and has used it in the past, then there should be absolutely no problem with coming to the USA to get married. You don't say how you met him nor how long you have known him but if you have a relationship which has developed over time, the immediate marriage would not affect his future possibilities for naturalization.

By all means get married here in the US. It is much simpler and less expensive unless you want to throw a big wedding.

Hasta pronto, jerezano
Magna gasoline at frozen $7.72 p/l and at 3.785 liters/gal. and $13 p/dollar is now costing $2.25 dollars/gal. More pesos per dollar cheaper gas & viceversa.

Starcradle

Oct 2, 2009, 7:01 PM

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Re: [jerezano] Marriage

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You don't say how you met him nor how long you have known him but if you have a relationship which has developed over time, the immediate marriage would not affect his future possibilities for naturalization.

We have known one another for 32 years. We met when we were a year old and have loved one another since we were five. I have photographs of us spanning many years, from infancy to the present time.

Quote

By all means get married here in the US. It is much simpler and less expensive unless you want to throw a big wedding.

Thank you for your comments and advice, jerezano.

I have no desire for a big wedding. The religious ceremony and reception will be held in Mexico, yet we do not have extravagant tastes.

If we elect to marry within the US, the dilemma we face is accomplishing it within our desired time line. He only receives vacation time once per year, and he just used it to visit me. As much as I would like to marry him here in order to simplify the process, it may also serve to prolong it. I definitely do not desire that.

db52

Oct 2, 2009, 8:34 PM

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Re: [Starcradle] Marriage

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This question ("would this be considered fraudulent?") appears to me to be nonsensical. The feds are on the lookout for cases where the alien gets to stay in the US by virtue of a fraudulent or "fishy" marriage, not ones where the couple immediately emigrates to some other country!

Starcradle

Oct 2, 2009, 9:42 PM

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However nonsensical it may appear to some, there is a great deal of misinformation circulating about. I possess no expertise in immigration law. Indeed, this is the first occasion I have confronted these issues. Therefore, I would much rather risk the appearance of silliness than remain in utter ignorance.

(This post was edited by Starcradle on Oct 2, 2009, 9:53 PM)

Papirex

Oct 2, 2009, 9:43 PM

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Re: [db52] Marriage

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A foreigner being married to an American citizen does not confer the right to enter or live in the US. A foreign spouse must still meet all of the requirements and jump through all the hoops to get any type of temporary visa or permanent residency card (Green card).

The requirements of The INS change, but when my Mexican wife and I were married in Alaska, she was allowed to remain in The US while her green card was processed because she had entered The US legally with a legitimate visa. The INS examined the visa in her passport very carefully. They told me that if a foreign national had a visa on a separate card or paper, and not in their passport, they were always fake.

If she had entered The US illegally, she would have been required to return to her home country while her case was being processed. That can be very time consuming.

I will ad the tip that if a couple is married in a foreign country and moves to México, it is prudent to register the marriage with The Mexican Federal government. A certificate will be issued certifying that the marriage is legitimate. That eliminates the need to provide apostilled copies every year when renewing a FM3 visa. By law, the federal registration certificate must be returned to you, it may not be retained by any Mexican government agency.

Our lawyer registered ours for us in México City, he was going there anyway and as I remember the cost was only about $1,000 Pesos a few years ago, I did need to provide him with an apostilled copy of our marriage certificate. That has saved me a lot of money. The apostilled copies cost me about US $70 Dollars each, they were always retained, and another was required every year. I have no idea of which Mexican Government agency was used, our lawyer handled it all.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Starcradle

Oct 2, 2009, 10:02 PM

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Re: [Papirex] Marriage

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Quote

Our lawyer registered ours for us in México City, he was going there anyway and as I remember the cost was only about $1,000 Pesos a few years ago, I did need to provide him with an apostilled copy of our marriage certificate. That has saved me a lot of money. The apostilled copies cost me about US $70 Dollars each, they were always retained, and another was required every year. I have no idea of which Mexican Government agency was used, our lawyer handled it all.

Were you required to have the apostilled copies of the marriage certificate translated into Spanish?

Papirex

Oct 2, 2009, 10:28 PM

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No, never. The State of Alaska does not provide translated, apostilled marriage certificates. If it was translated down here, the translation would no longer be an apostilled copy, although it might be possible to have it certified, I don't know if that is possible or not.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

Marlene

Oct 2, 2009, 11:11 PM

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I married my Mexican hubby in Mexico rather than in Canada, and it is not nearly as complicated as those who haven't done it, make it out to be. In fact, one poster pointed out a distinct advantage or two, to marrying in Mexico if you are going to be living in Mexico. That is indeed true. To us it made sense, and we have no regrets. If you have other questions please send me an email.

TlxcalaClaudia

Oct 3, 2009, 8:44 AM

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It isn't nonsensical at all to ask every question you have. In fact, getting married in USA to a foreigner on a particular visa raises flags when down the road you do want to apply for residency for your spouse in USA.
If you marry someone here on a a tourist or a student visa (can't remember which raised more red flags) then homeland security wanted every detail as to how you met and may even ask for letters from friends stating your marriage appears real. This delays your interview for months depending how fast you can get the letters written, signed and notarized. Believe me, you want to avoid every hassle possible. So getting married here is easy, but that isn't necessarily true for getting the residency. It isn't automatic. You are wise to be asking questions. Anyone getting flippant with you obviously has never been through the process.
Should I add exclamation marks here? Allow me to do so...IT ISN'T FOOLISH TO ASK!!!!

Claudia

(This post was edited by TlxcalaClaudia on Oct 3, 2009, 8:48 AM)

TlxcalaClaudia

Oct 3, 2009, 8:48 AM

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Almost the same for us about the marriage certificate. Apostilled in GA where we married then translated into Spanish once in Mexico. I was never sure why it had to be translated. I got a copy back too.

C

(This post was edited by TlxcalaClaudia on Oct 3, 2009, 8:50 AM)

prmjcm

Oct 3, 2009, 9:37 AM

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Starcradle I am an american who married a mexican citizen in mexico it took a little time but was not difficult if your intended is in mexico have him go to the immigration and find out what in necessary, and what documents, get your apostilled documents before you come to mexico, you must have them translated here, but again is not too difficult if one or both of you speak spanish, also have him go to the government office in the city where you plan to marry and find out what documents they need if you do this it will be very easy and if you plan on living in mexico i think is better to get married here.

gpkisner

Oct 3, 2009, 11:58 AM

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Of course, if you marry in Mexico the husband is entitled to establish a casa chica.

Starcradle

Oct 3, 2009, 12:57 PM

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Re: [gpkisner] Marriage

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Of course, if you marry in Mexico the husband is entitled to establish a casa chica.

I had never heard of this, gpkisner. Would you please elaborate?

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