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Estanislao


Mar 10, 2003, 7:23 AM

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Long Term Care

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So, part of me wants to retire early (like soon - at 53) and sell my N. Cal. house and move to Mexico. Our income wouldn't be large, but I have no doubt we would get by comfortably. Part of me thinks I should wait to 60+, get a larger retirement check, and maybe let some of my investments recover from the black hole they now are.

To go now, it would definitely mean selling the house. My wife more than I is concerned about such a drastic cutting of all ties to the US - leaving limited fall-back position.

When I visit my financial advisor, he says we really should have long-term care insurance for when we are old and decrepit. We are resistant, partly (in my case) because it doesn't seem to jive with my Mexico dream.

I know no one out there is going to have any magic answers to this, but I would appreciate thoughts on the subjects. Thanks.
--
"It is advisable to look from the tide pool to the stars and then back to the tide pool again."
John Steinbeck and Ed Ricketts - The Log From The Sea Of Cortez
--
Estanislao



Jerry@Ajijic

Mar 10, 2003, 7:40 AM

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Re: [Estanislao] Long Term Care

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Hi Estanislao,

In making your decision you should concider the relative costs of long term care here in Mx and in the US. There are at least 3 good nursing homes here at lakeside and I am sure many others in other places in MX.. We have had 2 friends in one and my wife was in another for 6 weeks recovering from being run over by a truck. We would recommend both of them.
I was on the board of a nursing home in the US that had no long term debt (thanks to a 1MM donation). We could not get, even by paying above market prices, the quality of help there is in nursing homes here.
The cost here, last year. was 1,000 USD per month. You might consider buying a guarenteed income (with something like a trust, annunity, etc) that would pay you enough to cover long term costs when you needed it.

jerry


raferguson


Mar 10, 2003, 8:26 AM

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Re: [Jerry@Ajijic] Long Term Care

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I was curious if the employees in these nursing homes speak English. I understand that when people are seriously mentally impaired, they lose the use of any languages except the one that they grew up speaking. For example, I heard about a Chinese person on chemotherapy who suddenly had trouble speaking English, when she spoke good English before. I would think that it would be very disconcerting for someone who is mentally impaired to be in an environment where one had problems communicating.


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Jerry@Ajijic

Mar 10, 2003, 8:37 AM

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Re: [raferguson] Long Term Care

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I do not think that is a problem. They have SOME people there that speak English. Susan does not speak Spanish and was there for 6 weeks and had no problem. Of course many of the long term patients can not communicate at all.

jerry


juan david


Mar 10, 2003, 5:38 PM

Post #5 of 12 (1634 views)

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Re: [Estanislao] Long Term Care

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I think you ask two questions. Aside from long term care, the other deals with the second biggie which is when is it time to hang up the cleats. A very complicated question and a very personal one. Part of it is financial...maybe the biggest part. How big is the prize for working the extra years and what is the cost. Much depends on what you're doing and how enjoyable it is. My epiphany came in a hotel in SanDiego. Was the third trip in 6 weeks from east coast and looking forward to another red eye back that night. Picked up USA Today and saw that Dave Thomas died at age 61. Decided I wasn't immortal and retirement started to make a lot more sense. Good luck with your decision...whichever way it goes.
" let sleeping dogs lie"


pat

Mar 10, 2003, 5:47 PM

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Re: [ian] Long Term Care

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Decided I wasn't immortal and retirement started to make a lot more sense.

What made you pick lakeside as your retirement location? Had you been here before you decided to retire, or did you decide on LS after the decision to retire? Again, why LS? Thanks, and good luck with your retirement.

Pat


karina

Mar 10, 2003, 8:15 PM

Post #7 of 12 (1608 views)

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Re: [Estanislao] Long Term Care

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Hola Estanislao: I am also 53 and have been pondering the same question for a couple of years. As a teacher if I retire early at 55 I would only get 40% of my due pension. By age 63 I'll get 100%. My husband and I decided to get and equity line loan to purchase a house in La Paz, Baja CA Sur. This way we are able to keep our house in Los Angeles and our house in LP is payed up. We will be renting the LP house until we decide to sell the one in LA. For now we will be visiting Mexico once in a while until we are ready. Good luck with your decision.


jennifer rose

Mar 10, 2003, 8:54 PM

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Re: [Estanislao] Long Term Care

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There’s no right, one-size-fits-all answer for everyone on the issues you’ve presented.

First, would your move to Mexico be temporary or permanent? The remark about “fall-back position” seems to signal that the stay in Mexico would not be a permanent one. There are all levels of “moving to Mexico.” For some that means, “maybe a couple of years,” and for some it means “for a couple of years until we make some decisions.” And for some, it means picking up, lock, stock and barrel, and actually becoming immigrants.

Now there are those who would contemplate returning to the homeland for all medical services more serious than a hangnail, and there are those who cast their lot with the Mexican health care system.

And there are those who would return to the Motherland at the first sign of dotage, and there are those whose life plans spell remaining in Mexico until their very last breath.

Some folks can afford to maintain second homes and enjoy doing so, and for some, doing so is nothing but a financial and logistical headache. One can continue to own a house in the U.S., and still cut all other ties; and there are those who have not a single asset in the U.S. but who still have substantial ties there.

Now, for the nursing home scenario. Well, you could always become a burden upon your children, or you could fritter away all of your assets foolishly and become a public charge. Or you could look at the long-term care situation as one which you’ll broach as the time comes – remaining in your own home and hiring extra help. That’s an approach that’s affordable in Mexico.

Personally, I look askance at long-term nursing home insurance. Read the fine print very, very carefully to understand the exclusions and amount of coverage. And it’s still very likely that the nursing home employees in the US are going to be speaking some language other than English. I think you would be wasting your money.

Whether to move here now or wait until later is another $64,000 question. How much gratification are you willing to defer? Obviously, there’s an inverse correlation between the time spent working to build up a retirement portfolio and the time left to spend it.

If you move to Mexico while you're younger, you'll have the benefit of better health, more flexibility, and, of course, more years to enjoy it. If you wait until you're older, you may have the benefit of wisdom and money -- and fewer years to enjoy it.

There are those who spend years planning a move to Mexico, weighing the pros and cons, scrutinizing every conceivable venue, collecting statistics, engaging in more preparation than a moon launch ever required. And the move still doesn’t meet with their expectations. And there are those land in alien territory, buy a house in their first 48 hours in town, and are happily every after. And there are spouses who move here under duress, only to find that living here meets their needs better than their Mexiphile better halves.


(This post was edited by jennifer rose on Mar 10, 2003, 9:24 PM)


Rolly


Mar 10, 2003, 9:17 PM

Post #9 of 12 (1615 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Long Term Care

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I agree with Jennifer. You can have a good late life in Mexico, and it doesn't have the be costly.

Over the past 5 years I watched my 87-91 year old mother as she moved through a succession of care facilities in Dallas as her need for assistance increased. She was a lady of means, so the facilities were reputed to be in the upper echeloned. If that is so, I shudder to think what the low-cost and government provided facilities must be like. I was appalled at the quality of care at a very high cost.

I have cast my lot with Mexico. I'm one of those who expects to be buried in Mexico. My long-term care, if I should live that long, will be, as Jennifer suggested, home care which I am convinced will provide me with better care at a lower cost than I could get in the USA. For me care insurance would be a waste.



Rolly Pirate

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(This post was edited by Rolly on Mar 11, 2003, 6:06 AM)


Bill_N

Mar 11, 2003, 2:13 AM

Post #10 of 12 (1590 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Long Term Care

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This is a very "forum relevant" thread. I am sure many forum participants who do not yet live in Mexico and are not yet retired appreciated the exchange. Count me and my wife in this category. We are asking ourselves some of the same questions.

I am 55. My wife is 50. We live in an ungodly climate, Rochester, NY for the past 25 years due to my job. My wife is originally from Houston Tx. She is sick of the winters here and has been urging me for many years to get out of here. We stayed because of the "free tuition benefits" offered by my University. One son took advantage of it and will soon graduate with a Masters degree in School Psychology. Our other son lives very happily in Germany with his German wife, our 15 month old grandson and her family in the same house. We have visited Germany 3 times now and this experience of travel in a foreign country, I believe, is one factor that has influenced us to see the world from a broader perspective and consider that there are other places besides the US where people live rather happily. But to the point....

My wife wants me to retire at age 60 (59 1/2 rule that allows collection of retirement benefits without penalty). She and I have a very specific plan that we are putting in place with that goal in mind. We sold our house last year. We used a small profit to pay off some of our debt. One aspect of our plan be debt free within the next year by paying down the college loans etc. At the same time we are exploring possible retirement in Mexico because it will be more affordable we think and make it possible to retire at age 60. We agree with other posters here. What is the use of working until you drop and then not having the health and vitality to enjoy at least some years in retirement. We look at "retirement" as a new and exciting phase where we can move to Mexico, learn Spanish and explore a new and interesting culture and land. I could stay on working at my University and earning a very good salary. But we have to weigh the "costs" of that on our health and happiness versus the money. At this point, we are choosing "health and happiness" hopefully. The money is not that important as long as we have enough to live comfortably but not extravagantly. That will be the factor most affecting our decision.

We did not buy another house. We are renting now and will continue to rent to provide us with the flexibility to move without having to sell another house or Town Home when the time comes. We will most likely rent in Mexico when we move there also at least for awhile until we see how we like it and we can explore various places to live.

As far as "long term care insurance" goes we also agree with some of the posters here. We haven't bought it and don't plan to. Another aspect of our attraction to Mexico is that from all we can determine people can probably hire a "personal assistant" if necessary a lot cheaper than languishing in a Nursing Home somewhere. I think one aspect of the type of people who even consider moving to Mexico is "risk taking". It seems to me that a person who would consider it has a certain element of adventure and risk taking in his/her personality and purchasing "long term care insurance" is probably not that compatible with a "risk takers" personality. Just an observation that I would like others to comment on, that is, the type of personality that it takes to even consider moving to Mexico.

Finally, we are planning our first visit to Mexico this summer. If we like our first experience and it confirms our plans to retire in Mexico, then we will plan another trip when we can spend an extended time. We plan to hang out on these message boards for the forseeable future to learn as much as we can from those who are planning a similar retirement and from those who are already experiencing it. In the meantime, we hope that Mexico remains an affordable choice and we hope we will enjoy our visit this summer. We are planning to.

Regards

Bill Newell

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Jerry@Ajijic

Mar 11, 2003, 7:01 AM

Post #11 of 12 (1571 views)

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Re: [Bill_N] Long Term Care

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The idea of "home care" is a good one and is certainly practical in some cases. However I think that for the majority of people who require LONG TERM a good nursing home might be better. Of course it depends on the mental and physical condition of the person. Nursing homes here have 24 hour attendents, RNs and regular scheduled doctor visits. Plus the attendents are trained in care of the people who can not take care of themselves.


juan david


Mar 11, 2003, 5:32 PM

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Re: [pat] Long Term Care

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Pat, the retirement decision came first. Then came the where question. Weather was important so we knew that our Canadian homeland was a nogo. Lakeside, once we checked it out on the web became a very viable option. We visited to confirm our expectations and decided to give it a go. We're renting, so we're still flexible. You can read all the good points in the forums etc, but it really is a good point of entry to Mexico. The gringo infrastructure makes it easy to start the new life. I've done the deep imersion foreign move once before, and decided that I wanted a bit easier transition this time. Good to live here and explore a bit at liesure before making the final decision. Lakeside as a first landing point is not a bad choice at all. It'll probably stick for us anyway.
" let sleeping dogs lie"
 
 
 
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