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eyePad

Apr 22, 2011, 9:49 AM

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Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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I've been reading a lot on the INM (Migracion) and SRE (Relaciones Exteriores.) web sites. It turns out the info I got on this forum was excellent - thanks to all. One thing I noticed was for Visa Inmigrante con característico Familiar there are no proof of income requirements. Is that really true?

Casa

Apr 22, 2011, 10:11 AM

Post #2 of 35 (2682 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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One thing I noticed was for Visa Inmigrante con característico Familiar there are no proof of income requirements. Is that really true?

No this is not true according to article 186 paragraph IV of reglamento de la ley general de la población..... Usually for Visa Inmigrante con característico Familiar there is a financial solvency requirement....

This is to say that the foreign person who needs the visa does not need to show proof of income BUT his Mexican "sponsor" does need to show proof of financial stability to support the foreign family member.

INM website says

Acreditar en forma fehaciente la solvencia económica del solicitante, la cual deberá ser suficiente a juicio del INM, para atender las necesidades de su cónyuge o familiar

(Irrefutably accredit to the applicant's financial solvency, which must be considered adequate by the INM, to meet the needs of your spouse or family)

law says

El solicitante acreditará su solvencia económica, la cual deberá ser suficiente, a juicio de la
Secretaría, para atender las necesidades de sus familiares;

The applicant shall demonstrate their financial solvency, which must be sufficient, according to the
Secretariat, to meet the needs of their family members;

eyePad

Apr 22, 2011, 10:22 AM

Post #3 of 35 (2677 views)

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Re: [Casa] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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INM website says

Acreditar en forma fehaciente la solvencia económica del solicitante, la cual deberá ser suficiente a juicio del INM, para atender las necesidades de su cónyuge o familiar

I must of missed something. Do you have the link to that piece? The step-by-step instructions never mention it (at least as far as I can see, although I've had problems loading some of their pages correctly)

Casa

Apr 22, 2011, 11:57 AM

Post #4 of 35 (2649 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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Do you have the link to that piece? The step-by-step instructions never mention it (at least as far as I can see, although I've had problems loading some of their pages correctly)

I am not an immigration expert and I do not know what your case is…
Are you already in Mexico?
Do you already have some kind of Immigration document?
If so what kind?
Etc…
I have not found a way to link to the particular page but I did the following:
On the main page of www.INM.GOB.MX right hand side click Tramites Migratorias
The choose Estados Unidos from the drop down list
Then Choose Option 2 Vivir en Mexico
Then choose Option 2 Manera Permanente (inmígrate)
Then choose Option 3 Familiar de Mexicano
Then Choose

Option 1 Te encuentras fuera del país y has sido invitado por alguien en México
Or
Option 3 Cuentas con forma migratoria vigente y deseas realizar una nueva actividad

Then after choosing either option 1 or 3 scroll to the bottom of the page and
click 1. Requisitos
This will lead you to the requirements page where the text is listed

eyePad

Apr 22, 2011, 12:13 PM

Post #5 of 35 (2641 views)

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Re: [Casa] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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You got to it a little different path and I see it. I am in and out of Mexico. I used to have an FM3 (the old booklet) but now just use the FMM. It assumes the Mexican citizen is supporting the foreigner (me) but that is not my case. Hmm. Wonder how that works.
The other thing is INM website instructs me to go to a consulate (assumes I'm out of the country) and get 'correct' Visa to enter. But isn't that just an FMM? I don't know why they are saying go to a consulate for that. Thanks for all the help.

Casa

Apr 22, 2011, 12:38 PM

Post #6 of 35 (2634 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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For foreigners married to Mexicans there are a couple of different avenues available. You can pick and choose whichever scenario works best for your case.

In addition to the avenues available to those not married to Mexicans you can also use the "familiares característica" or the "Asimilado característica".

You may be allowed to work under either familiares or Asimilado característica if that is important to you (working can also be shown to prove financial solvency).

Familiares característica the sponsor needs to show financial solvency

Asimilado the foreigner needs to show financial solvency

The system assumes you are out of the country because of the options you have chosen when answering the questions. If you are in mexico with a FMM then you would need to choose the options for changing both calidad y característica as you will need to go from FMM to Inmigrante (familiar or Asimilado or rentista or whatever).

-> Option 3 Cuentas con forma migratoria vigente y deseas realizar una nueva actividad Requisitos

Solicitud de trámite. Formato de estancia
Copia de pasaporte o documento de identidad y viaje y visa válidos y vigentes para México.
Comprobante del pago de derechos correspondiente al otorgamiento de la nueva característica o calidad por adquirir, deberá realizarse al momento de tramitar la expedición de la Tarjeta de Inmigrante.
Carta dirigida al INM, redactada en español y firmada por el solicitante, (mexicano) en la que solicite la calidad de inmigrante y característica de familiar para el extranjero de quien es cónyuge o con quien tiene parentesco consanguíneo en línea recta sin limite de grado o transversal hasta el segundo grado. Cuando se trate del cónyuge deberá manifestarse además el domicilio conyugal;
Identificación oficial del mexicano.
Actas de nacimiento o de matrimonio, o carta de naturalización, que acredite el parentesco o matrimonio con el solicitante.
Acreditar en forma fehaciente la solvencia económica del solicitante, la cual deberá ser suficiente a juicio del INM, para atender las necesidades de su cónyuge o familiar.

I would strongly recommend that you go to the local INM office where you will process your Tramite, the local requirements are often but not always different from what shows up on line.

eyePad

Apr 22, 2011, 1:57 PM

Post #7 of 35 (2613 views)

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Re: [Casa] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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Ok, this is getting pretty enlightening. The 'caracteristica' is not really important, and the income requirements can be handled. I was mostly just trying to understand what I had read. I really just need Inmigrante status so I can fullfil the SRE requirements for citizenship.

Casa

Apr 22, 2011, 10:10 PM

Post #8 of 35 (2550 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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I really just need Inmigrante status so I can fullfil the SRE requirements for citizenship.

OK I understand.
I believe there are 9 different características for inmigrante to choose from.

If you are married to a Mexican citizen or you are from a Latin American country or have Mexican children (adopted or natural) or come from a Mexican family you could qualify for expedited citizenship, 2 years living in Mexico instead of 5 years. (There may be a few other cases that qualify for the shorter 2 year period but I can’t remember them off the top of my head.)
One thing to remember is that you can only be out of Mexico for up to 18 months in a 5 year period before applying for citizenship. Also you cannot be out of Mexico for more that 6 months in the 2 years before applying for citizenship.

Good luck

eyePad

Apr 23, 2011, 3:45 PM

Post #9 of 35 (2492 views)

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Re: [Casa] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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One thing to remember is that you can only be out of Mexico for up to 18 months in a 5 year period before applying for citizenship. Also you cannot be out of Mexico for more that 6 months in the 2 years before applying for citizenship.

OK, I see in Ley de Nacionalidad, CAPÍTULO III, that I can be out of country 6 months in 2 years:

"2. La mujer o el varón extranjeros que contraigan matrimonio con varón o mujer mexicanos, deberán acreditar que han residido y vivido de consuno en el domicilio conyugal establecido en territorio nacional, durante los dos años inmediatamente anteriores a la fecha de la solicitud."

"Artículo 21.- Las ausencias temporales del país no interrumpirán la residencia, salvo que éstas se presenten durante los dos años anteriores a la presentación de la solicitud y excedan en total seis meses. La residencia a que se refiere la fracción III del artículo anterior, deberá ser ininterrumpida."

Where does the 18 months in 5 years come into play? (Since I only need two years of Inmigrante, correct?)

Thanks for all the help Casa, do you happen to know where in the Law the calidad Inmigrante is required? All the above from SRE does not mention Visas at all, but I guess that is all Gobernacion and INM

(This post was edited by eyePad on Apr 23, 2011, 3:48 PM)

Casa

Apr 23, 2011, 5:11 PM

Post #10 of 35 (2471 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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do you happen to know where in the Law the calidad Inmigrante is required? All the above from SRE does not mention Visas at all, but I guess that is all Gobernacion and INM

Citizenship and Naturalisation is all done by SRE.
INM does do research for and give an opinion to SRE to make sure the requirements are met.
The calidad inmigrante is not outlined in the law. That is a VERY good point. The law only says legal residency in Mexico. The interpretation of the law was changed in oct/nov of 2007 (if I remember correctly). Before this time one was able to apply for citizenship with an FM3 or FM2. I like, many other people on this forum, got screwed. 2 weeks before applying for citizenship with my FM3 SRE changes their mind and says that residency means FM2 or Inmigrante and will no longer accept FM3 or non inmigrante. I went and got an FM2 and started the waiting game all over again.

In Reply To

Where does the 18 months in 5 years come into play? (Since I only need two years of Inmigrante, correct?)

I am sorry I should have been clearer.
You only need 2 years as an inmigrante if you qualify for the expedited processing under one of the categories. If you are married with a Mexican and you have establish your conjugal home in Mexico then yes you only need 2 years with inmigrante status 18 months of which you must be physically present in Mexico.

The 18 months in 5 years comes into play if one is applying for Mexican citizenship by means of residency (No Mexican spouse, or family, or not from Latin America etc etc.) This is because one will most likely need Inmigrado status. (I say most likely because one can only apply for citizenship after 5 years of residency and the inmigrante card cannot be renewed again after the 4th renewal and one will need legal status in the country while the citizenship is being processed. It may take longer than 6 month for the process the citizenship application and one has to apply for inmigrado with 6 months of the expiration of the 4th renewal of the inmigrante or fm2 card. If not one will have to start all over again!! ) In order to obtain Inmigrado status after 5 years of residency with an FM2 one can not be absent from Mexico more than 18 months in the past 5 years. If one is absent from Mexico 2 years out of 5 then they lose the calidad Inmigrante. (There are a few exceptions that can be made like overseas post graduate study but it is not the norm) Sometimes people think that being out of Mexico for 20 months in 5 years is ok, and it is if they do NOT want to go for Inmigrado status.

Clear as mud now ?

Rolly

Apr 23, 2011, 5:36 PM

Post #11 of 35 (2464 views)

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Re: [Casa] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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I want to give my "answer all the questions" job to Casa. She's good at it, and I'm tired.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

eyePad

Apr 24, 2011, 7:19 AM

Post #12 of 35 (2408 views)

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Re: [Casa] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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Sorry to hear of your misfortune regarding FM2/FM3 issue. Do you happen to know what their reasoning or legal basis was? That was a pretty big change with no warning!

It looks like maybe Inmigrante - Rentista is best for me. Presumably I will not finish the 5 year cycle as the SRE process begins after 2 years. Does anyone have a link or can cite where the income requirements are stated? The online application only says

Si decides vivir de tus recursos económicos o inversiones en México, tu puedes ser rentista y para ello necesitas acreditar que dispones de recursos suficientes tanto para ti como para tus dependientes económicos, en caso de contar con ellos.

which yes is as clear as mud

Assimilado is normally only available if you have 5 years of FM2, right? I looked up the cited article 188 of the Ley de Poblacion and it looks like I can get it in 3 years due to matrimony. It looks like some special cases would have applied to you as well (if it was the same in 2007)

(This post was edited by eyePad on Apr 24, 2011, 7:24 AM)

Rolly

Apr 24, 2011, 7:48 AM

Post #13 of 35 (2394 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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The monthly income requirement for Inmigrante - Rentista is 400 times the minimum wage.
For 2011 that would be $23,920 pesos.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Casa

Apr 24, 2011, 8:55 AM

Post #14 of 35 (2375 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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There was no reason or warning given that I am aware of, and it was literally overnight. I went to SRE to enquire about citizenship and they gave me all the info, “no problem come back in 2 weeks when you get your renewal”. I went back in 2 weeks and they said oh sorry no can do there has been a change….

NOTE: Most immigration legislation is written into the Ley de la Población and the Reglamento de la Ley de la Población. There is a new Immigration bill in the works. The Ley de Migración was passed by the Mexican Senate in February of 2011 but has not yet been passed by the Diputados. I have not been able to find a copy the pending legislation.

The income requirement is outlined in Art. 180 of the RLGP. (Reglamento de la Ley de la Población).

It is 400 times the current minimum wage for Mexico City

You may get that amount reduced by 50% if you show the acquisition of property used by you as your dwelling where you reside.

Currently (2011) the Min Wage in Mexico City is $59.80 pesos per day.

400 X $59.80 = $23,920 pesos per month income required.

Or $11,960 per month if you own your home in Mexico.

You are right, you would not finish the cycle, you just need the Inmigrante status for 2 + years. (The + being the processing time)

Artículo 180.- RENTISTA.- Cuando se trate de los inmigrantes a que se refiere la fracción I del artículo 48 de la Ley, tendrán aplicación, para que se conceda el permiso, las siguientes reglas:
I. El extranjero o extranjera deberá acreditar ante la Secretaría que cuenta con depósitos provenientes del exterior y que de éstos, de los rendimientos que produzcan o de sus inversiones en el país obtiene ingresos mensuales por una cantidad no menor del equivalente a cuatrocientos días el salario mínimo vigente para el Distrito Federal;
IV. La Secretaría podrá autorizar que el extranjero o extranjera acredite hasta el equivalente al cincuenta por ciento del monto señalado en la fracción I, cuando demuestre la adquisición de un bien inmueble destinado para uso propio como casa habitación;

Asimilado is used if no other category applies and is for people who have assimilated into Mexican culture. According to Art 188 RLGP

1 Married to a Mexican and have 3 years residency* (Do not have to be married 3 years)

2 Live in a common law relationship with a Mexican and have been living in Mexico for 5 years before applying*

3 If you have or HAD Mexican child(ren) either adopted or natural and have been living in Mexico for 5 years before applying*

4 if you are the designated guardian of a Mexican minor or handicapped adult and have been living in Mexico for 5 years before applying*

5 If you have been living in Mexico for 5 years with a FM3 Visitante (non inmigrante Visitante)

* Does not say what qualifies for residency Inmigrante or no inmigrante, If I had to guess I would say inmigrante)

(This post was edited by Casa on Apr 24, 2011, 12:35 PM)

eyePad

Apr 24, 2011, 10:50 AM

Post #15 of 35 (2355 views)

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Re: [Casa] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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I wonder if I get the 50% income discount because our house of some years is in my wife's name. I know this has been discussed on this board, but does the bank account just have to show "deposits" per month? I think I have seen posts that it "depends" on what official you are dealing with at the time? Do they ever require source information?

I notice on the online forms for street address it will accept "SN" I just wonder if that will fly. My INM office I think is Mexico since I'm in Edomex.

Have you heard anything about the new legislation?

Yes, this is Art. 188 that I was referring to. #5 i thought would apply to you, that is what I was citing, but I don't understand your * comments. Seems very clear in the original Spanish that it is for FM3 holders, but what do I know. Edit: Maybe you are saying Assimilado still requires 5 years before citizenship?

Well, once again, thanks for all the good discussion.

(This post was edited by eyePad on Apr 24, 2011, 11:01 AM)

mexicobuff

Apr 24, 2011, 11:00 AM

Post #16 of 35 (2345 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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Sorry to hear of your misfortune regarding FM2/FM3 issue. Do you happen to know what their reasoning or legal basis was? That was a pretty big change with no warning!

SRE did indeed make the change literally overnight. The reasoning had to do with a major drug lord who had 'bought' his citizenship and was discovered to have done so through one particular SRE office. I am not at liberty to say more.

The change affected many, many people who were about to receive citizenship, all of whom had to start jumping through SRE hoops again.

eyePad

Apr 24, 2011, 11:05 AM

Post #17 of 35 (2339 views)

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Re: [mexicobuff] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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I don't understand why FM2/FM3 would make any difference especially in the case of corruption, the two Visas are very similar.

mexicobuff

Apr 24, 2011, 11:08 AM

Post #18 of 35 (2333 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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The point was that the SRE changed its rules. There was a time when the law was interpreted to mean that you could go from FM3 status directly to citizenship, although in fact the law is not written that way. Written law has always been that you applied for citizenship after holding an FM2 for the required length of time--according to what has already been posted here.

eyePad

Apr 24, 2011, 11:14 AM

Post #19 of 35 (2329 views)

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Re: [mexicobuff] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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I just read the SRE law "Ley de Nacionalidad" as I've cited and it needs to be interpreted FM2 or FM3 because Visas have nothing to do with SRE - that is INM (Gobernacion). I just did a whole document search in Ley de Nacionalidad and FM2, FM3, or FM whatever doesn't exist. Of course as usual I'm probably missing something.

mexicobuff

Apr 24, 2011, 11:19 AM

Post #20 of 35 (2324 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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What you're missing is that SRE--not immigration--changed its interpretation, literally from one day to the next, back in September of 2007. I do know 'the rest of the story', as Paul Harvey used to say, but I am not allowed to repeat it here. Please, just take my word for it.

It's a government agency and the orders came from higher up.

Rolly

Apr 24, 2011, 11:39 AM

Post #21 of 35 (2315 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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The operable word in the law is residido. The SRE ruled that an FM3 person is not a residido (resident), rather is a visitor.
This same logic is now being applied to driver's licenses in the states of Durango and Coahuila. They will not issue a driver's license to an FMM or FM3 holder. I got caught in that snare when I tried to renew my license when I still had an FM3. Thanks to friends in high places, I squeaked by. Now that I have an FM2, I have given up driving. Oh, the irony of it all!

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Casa

Apr 24, 2011, 1:03 PM

Post #22 of 35 (2293 views)

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Re: [eyePad] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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I wonder if I get the 50% income discount because our house of some years is in my wife's name.

I am not sure about the discount for a house that is not in the foreigner’s name, and only the spouse’s name. In my case our house is in both me and my spouse’s name. I got the discount.

In Reply To

does the bank account just have to show "deposits" per month?

No, one does not have to show monthly deposits. One can show bank statements (notice the plural as I was required to show 3 months worth) with a balance that meets the yearly requirement if there are not monthly deposits (like maybe a 401K account). When I applied for the FM2 in 2008 I had to show 3 months worth of bank statements and since the statements were not in Spanish I have to pay them to have them translated by a Traductor Perito (State Authorised Translator)

In Reply To

My INM office I think is Mexico since I'm in Edomex.

The regional INM office for Mexico State is in Toluca.
http://www.inm.gob.mx/...cto_Estado_de_Mexico

In Reply To

Have you heard anything about the new legislation?

The only thing I have read about the new legislation is what I have read in the newspaper and most of it pertains to the rights of undocumented foreigners in Mexico. I have not been able to find a draft of the complete legislation. There was some discussion about is here on Mexconnect

In Reply To

Yes, this is Art. 188 that I was referring to. #5 i thought would apply to you, that is what I was citing, but I don't understand your * comments. Seems very clear in the original Spanish that it is for FM3 holders, but what do I know.

Yes you are correct I got carried away with the *. (I have edited my post thanks for catching that)

I think 2013 may see citizenship applications take a bit longer than usually because of the pent up demand over the previous years.

I think it will be interesting to see how the SRE will handle same sex marriages between foreigners and Mexicans. These foreigners, that hold FM2, will start to become eligible for citizenship in less than a year.

Will SRE drag their feet like IMSS and ISTEE or will they be more progressive like INM that gave permission for these couples to be married in the first place……. (All marriages that take place in Mexico between a foreigner and a Mexican require the prior approval of INM)

Maybe that is a topic for a new thread ……

eyePad

Apr 26, 2011, 10:36 AM

Post #23 of 35 (2189 views)

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Re: [Casa] Inmigrante con característico Familiar

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What an informative thread.

Once an application for citizenship is made, what is the time frame for completion?

Rolly

Apr 26, 2011, 11:22 AM

Post #24 of 35 (2173 views)

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Typically, a year or more.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

eyePad

Apr 26, 2011, 1:24 PM

Post #25 of 35 (2148 views)

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Is it much hassle to be out of country during that time? I've got an explicit number of months from the SRE website for the PRIOR two years but what about after applying? (this has been a real eye opener - no pun intended)

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