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Greg in NJ

May 7, 2003, 7:00 PM

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I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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OK. I read through 15 pages of post, dating back to early December, and haven't found the answer to my questions (which I'm sure have been answered ad nauseum).

1 - My wife and I make well in excess of the amount needed, from our U.S. jobs, to satisfy the FM-3 requirements. However, our income from our investments doesn't even come close. Given that when we arrive in Mexico, our income will be non-existent (until we find jobs), will we be able to get an FM-3? If not, how should we go about moving.

2 - Can we get an FM-3 that permits us to work without first haing jobs in Mexico? Or do we need to get a "vanilla" (if you will) FM-3 first, and then find a job and convert it?

Additionally, if anyone can provide any information on the Informations Technologies job market in the Playa and Cancun area, that would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a bunch,

Greg in NJ

Rolly

May 7, 2003, 8:14 PM

Post #2 of 12 (1027 views)

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Re: [Greg in NJ] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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Hi Greg,

In order to get an FM3 you must present documentation that your income meets the required amount. (And that varies depending on what your area Consulate requires. It's not the same everywhere.) That proof is almost always bank statements for the preceding 3 months showing deposits equal to the requirement. The process is backward looking and does not ask about future income. Strange, but that's the way it works. So you will be able to get an FM3 based on your present income.

The catch, however, comes at the end of the first year when you must again prove your income in order to renew your FM3. If you can't do that, you can surrender your FM3, go to a land border, get an FMT tourist visa, and a new car registration based on your FMT, and go right on living in Mexico.

For more information about moving to Mexico, go here: http://rollybrook.com/...o_move_to_mexico.htm

You need to find a job before applying for a work permit. Very often the employer will do all the paperwork since he has paperwork to do in order to hire you.

Have you explored the job possibilities and your ability to get a work permit? It is not automatic or even easy. Please be careful not to move down here thinking that you can easily find work that will meet your FM3 requirements -- it would be a very well paying job. The odds are not good.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

jennifer rose

May 7, 2003, 8:25 PM

Post #3 of 12 (1024 views)

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Re: [Greg in NJ] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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In Reply To

1 - My wife and I make well in excess of the amount needed, from our U.S. jobs, to satisfy the FM-3 requirements. However, our income from our investments doesn't even come close. Given that when we arrive in Mexico, our income will be non-existent (until we find jobs), will we be able to get an FM-3? If not, how should we go about moving.

"Income" isn't exactly the operative word. To qualify for a no-imigrante vistante rentista FM-3, the applicant must show deposits in an amount exceeding the minimum monthly requirement. You should be able to read between the lines to figure out the difference between "income" and "deposits."

If you cannot qualify for an FM-3, the FMT (tourist card) is always an option. You are not permitted to work under either the FM-3 described above or the tourist card.

In Reply To

2 - Can we get an FM-3 that permits us to work without first haing jobs in Mexico? Or do we need to get a "vanilla" (if you will) FM-3 first, and then find a job and convert it?

You'll need the job offer before getting the work permit. And the details require something more than simply showing up for work. You'll need to show that your skills aren't available in the existing Mexican workforce and that you're not depriving a Mexican citizen of a job. The work permit is employer-specific.

Greg in NJ

May 8, 2003, 5:13 AM

Post #4 of 12 (1005 views)

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Re: [Rolly] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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Thanks Holly and Jennifer. I appreciate both of you taking the time to answer my questions. I think I finally understand the FM-3 issue.

My last question, and one you obviously won't be able to give me a definitive answer on, is about the job market. While I understand that it won't be easy to find work, just how hard is it? If my wife and I are both IT professionals (we both hold a BS in Telecommunications Management), with outgoing personalities, and solid Spanish speaking skills, is it reasonable to expect that we would be able to find work within six months?

Thanks again,

Greg in NJ

Rolly

May 8, 2003, 11:15 AM

Post #5 of 12 (970 views)

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Re: [Greg in NJ] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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If I were you, I'd spend some time in the place where you want to live searching for a job. It is a lot better to have something lined up before you make the big move. It is not going to be easy to find the job you want at the pay level you need. If you do find a company interested in hiring you, you still must convince the government that only you, not some Mexican citizen, can fulfill the job requirements. It is not going to be easy.

A better way is to find a job with a US or Canadian company that has an operation in Mexico. They can transfer you to their Mexican office with easy to arrange paperwork, and their pay scale will be a lot higher than a Mexican company will pay for the same job. With a solid technical background and good Spanish, you have marketable skills.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Greg in NJ

May 8, 2003, 11:43 AM

Post #6 of 12 (967 views)

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Re: [Rolly] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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OK. Here's where I'm still a bit confused. You said I'll have to prove to the government that a Mexican citizen can't do the job I'm after. However, when I was in PdC earlier this year, I met two Swedish bartenders who just showed up in PdC one day because they wanted to move somewhere sunny. Did they convince the govenment that no Mexican could make a margarita? There also seems to be a large number of gringos working in the hotel industry, in jobs that require a minimal skillset. Once again, it's hard to believe that a Mexican citizen couldn't do these jobs. Can you shed some light on this for me?

One last thing (if you don't mind), you said "It is not going to be easy to find the job you want at the pay level you need." When you say "you need", do you mean what I'll need to maintain FM-3 status after my first year in Mexico?

Thanks again, I truly appreciate your insights on these issues.

Greg in NJ

Rolly

May 8, 2003, 2:04 PM

Post #7 of 12 (954 views)

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Re: [Greg in NJ] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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Yes, Greg, there are gringos working in Mexico off the books without work permits. This is especially common in the tourism industry, selling time shares, and teaching English. If they get caught, they can be deported on as little as 24 hour notice. And they do get caught -- usually because someone denounces them to the immigration people. These are also very low-paying jobs, barely enough to live on in many cases and certainly not enough to meet the FM3 requirements. Which is what I meant by saying "the pay level you need."

You can come to Mexico on a tourist visa, find a job in a tourist resort without a work permit, and live the life of a beach bum, and hope you don't get caught. Or you can plan ahead, follow the rules, and have a comfortable, stable life in a wonderful country.

Now before someone jumps on me, let me say that there are gringos (and others) working with permits in tourism, time shares and ESL. Generally the special qualification is being a native English speaker. And it is possible to do those jobs and be more than a beach bum. But there are many posts of this board and other Mexico-oriented boards from people wanting to have a working vacation in Mexico. I tend to lump them in the same group with the seasoned beach bums. My intuition says you do not fit in that group.

Bottom line: My advice is predicated on the notion that you would be better off by following the rules.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Greg in NJ

May 8, 2003, 2:10 PM

Post #8 of 12 (952 views)

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Re: [Rolly] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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Once again, I appreciate your advice. It seems to me that you've painted a bleak picture of the number of opportunities for people looking to obtain a job that would allow one to maintain an FM-3 status. Is my assessment accurate? Thanks again.

Greg in NJ

Rolly

May 8, 2003, 2:52 PM

Post #9 of 12 (946 views)

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Re: [Greg in NJ] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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I think your dream is possible -- with a generous amount of good luck. But I don't think it is very likely. And certainly not without a lot of leg work before you cut ties in NJ and head south.I don't usually have a little rain cloud over my head except when talking with people who want to move to Mexico and support themselves by working.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

gpk

May 8, 2003, 3:16 PM

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Re: [Greg in NJ] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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A working FM-3 does not require the same income level as a non-working FM-3. English teachers generally do not make anywhere near US$1000-or- so per month, but they get working visas for their special skills.

You would have better luck finding IT jobs in Mexico City, Monterrey, or Guadalajara. Forget the beaches--it won't happen there.

Also--look for employment at US/foreign companies with offices in Mexico.

DavidMcL

May 8, 2003, 3:51 PM

Post #11 of 12 (937 views)

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Re: [Greg in NJ] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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All the advice presented so far is right on in my experience.

However, a couple of additional items:

1. On the left Nav bar on the index page, there is a link called "Find A Job" - which is MXC's custom find within the LatPro job bank. Today there are 94 jobs. Many are relevant to look at for you.

2. If you and your partner are able to establish contract work that can be done using today's miraculous communications, you can work anywhere - (well sort of - internet access is important!)

3. A distant and difficult alternative is establishing a business within Mexico. I won't go into details as it is a complex process, but many have done so.

Suerte!

David
David McL
WebJefe

Greg in NJ

May 9, 2003, 5:06 AM

Post #12 of 12 (912 views)

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Re: [DavidMcL] I'm Dazed and Confused - Help Needed

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Thanks to everyone who posted to this thread. I appreciate your time and insight. Thanks.

Greg in NJ