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conan

Mar 24, 2011, 8:42 AM

Post #1 of 36 (2577 views)

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FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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I know someone who has definitely overstayed their Fm3 visa, presumably because they are getting paid under the table and can't prove support; that's my best guess. My question is, he owns his 300K condo outright. I thought those on FM3's could not own property, how is this possible? Any liability for the employers for employing someone with an expired visa, I presume they must check this.

Unbelieveable - former friend, stole money from me (sap).

joaquinx

Mar 24, 2011, 8:48 AM

Post #2 of 36 (2559 views)

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Re: [conan] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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In Reply To

You can own property on an FMM tourist visa.
Yes, there is liability for employers and no, it is rarely checked.

conan

Mar 24, 2011, 8:51 AM

Post #3 of 36 (2555 views)

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Re: [joaquinx] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Is an FMM the same as an FM3?

Casa

Mar 24, 2011, 8:52 AM

Post #4 of 36 (2554 views)

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Re: [conan] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Rolly

Mar 24, 2011, 8:54 AM

Post #5 of 36 (2554 views)

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Re: [conan] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Property can be owned by a person with an FM3.
You may be thinking of a tax when selling.
An FM2 person gets a tax break when selling with some conditions applying.
FM3 folks do not.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

CanuckBob

Mar 24, 2011, 9:39 AM

Post #6 of 36 (2538 views)

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Re: [conan] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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I don't believe any level of visa is required to own property in Mexico. There are many foriegners that own property and only visit for a few weeks a year.

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://lakechapalainfo.bigforumpro.com/

(This post was edited by CanuckBob on Mar 24, 2011, 9:42 AM)

DavidHF

Mar 24, 2011, 10:04 AM

Post #7 of 36 (2529 views)

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Re: [CanuckBob] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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The point is that you must be in the country legally when you buy property. Therefore you must have a visa at the time.

Marlene

Mar 24, 2011, 11:38 AM

Post #8 of 36 (2504 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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You must be in the country legally at all times, no matter what the purpose of your visit is.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Mar 24, 2011, 11:39 AM)

CanuckBob

Mar 24, 2011, 1:45 PM

Post #9 of 36 (2480 views)

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Re: [DavidHF] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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The point is that you must be in the country legally when you buy property. Therefore you must have a visa at the time.

My point is that you don't need any level of visa to be a property owner in Mexico which is relevant to the original question. They didn't ask what level was needed to purchase property.

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://lakechapalainfo.bigforumpro.com/

salto_jorge

Mar 28, 2011, 9:52 AM

Post #10 of 36 (2249 views)

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Re: [CanuckBob] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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You need a valid passport from the country that are are from.
Certain areas of the country have restrictions on foreign ownership and require a partnership or 99 year lease.
In many areas you can purchase the property legally thought your Notario ( Lawyer ).

Never trust real-estate agents, they are looking out for themselves and may not know the law.

If you have mexican children or wife you can put your name on the paper work and provide the Notario will the property division laws for the state that you were married in and live in. The notario or at least a good one will know what to do.

Never use the sellers Notario or a friend of the agents.

My Notario informed that that many states in Mexico are having the purchasers of property prove that the funds used/to be used for a purchase come from a legal source (not under the table). I have no idea what kind of proof is required.

When it comes to working in Mexico and being caught that is another issue, also what they are doing.
If paid under the table there are no records no liability since there is no employer, same all over the world.
As for the expired visa, leave ASAP and get a new visa on their return.

The Visa and Property Ownership have nothing to do with working in Mexico without a Permit.
The order of the events may matter in some situations to some government employee.

(This post was edited by salto_jorge on Mar 28, 2011, 10:10 AM)

CanuckBob

Mar 28, 2011, 1:46 PM

Post #11 of 36 (2207 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Thanks for clarifying this, Salto.

Bob
Inside Lakeside
http://lakechapalainfo.bigforumpro.com/

mazbook1

Mar 28, 2011, 2:01 PM

Post #12 of 36 (2203 views)

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Re: [CanuckBob] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Bob, I'm glad salto_jorge clarified it for you. Since this part:

"Certain areas of the country have restrictions on foreign ownership and require a partnership or 99 year lease.
In many areas you can purchase the property legally thought your Notario ( Lawyer )."

is TOTALLY WRONG, I have my doubts about the rest of his post.

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Mar 28, 2011, 2:02 PM)

tonynico

Mar 28, 2011, 3:05 PM

Post #13 of 36 (2183 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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That is how it was many years ago, not now.
How can the reply be so out of date. Wow!

Ron

mazbook1

Mar 28, 2011, 4:23 PM

Post #14 of 36 (2165 views)

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Re: [tonynico] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Not even correct 30 years ago!!!

sparks

Mar 28, 2011, 5:59 PM

Post #15 of 36 (2151 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Maybe not totally ... in the restricted areas you do get a kind of lease (fideicomiso) that I think is more like 50 years and renewable. Most of the rest of Mexico you can own outright unless it's still Ejido

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

mazbook1

Mar 28, 2011, 6:36 PM

Post #16 of 36 (2134 views)

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Re: [sparks] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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sparks, Shame on you! The fideicomiso isn't even remotely like a lease. It just makes you pay a Mexican bank a very small fee annually to act as Trustee of a trust where you are the beneficiary. The property is YOURS, and you can rent it out, sell it, will it, destroy it (if it's standalone <grin>) or do whatever you wish with it. You don't need the Trustee's approval for ANYTHING!

To get the trust, you need the approval of the Mexican government, but for a foreigner to buy property anywhere in México, this approval is necessary so what's the difference?

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Mar 28, 2011, 6:37 PM)

Moisheh

Mar 30, 2011, 6:25 AM

Post #17 of 36 (2024 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Although I have no love for real estate agents salto's post is so full of errors that I wouild discount the whole post as nonsense. I have never heard of a 99 year lease. Why would a thinking person lease property and then put a house on said property?? Mazbook's information is of course correct. But the fees for a Trust are not small. Currently most banks are charging $500 mas IVA. For this fee they do absolutely nothing! We have 2 trusts and they are still $300 plus IVA.

sparks

Mar 30, 2011, 7:29 AM

Post #18 of 36 (2014 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Yer right ... guess I was thinking about how he interpreted what he'd heard rather than what I know. A lease is just a rental

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

bournemouth

Mar 30, 2011, 7:49 AM

Post #19 of 36 (2007 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Before the advent of Fidiecomisos, people indeed bought on leases and built but that was back in to 70's and earlier. The first little place we had on the beach in Sonora came that way - but was so cheap that we could take the risk.

Moisheh

Mar 30, 2011, 9:52 AM

Post #20 of 36 (1971 views)

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Re: [bournemouth] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Yes, people in Baja also rented properties and I am sure most of us remember what transpired a few years ago when they lost everything. Perhaps that was alright when persons were building small "huts" with very little value. As it is property rights in Mexico are centuries behind those NOB. I sometrimes say that foreigners leave their brains at KM21!! I could write a book about some of the stupid realty deals that take place.

salto_jorge

Mar 30, 2011, 10:07 AM

Post #21 of 36 (1965 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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TOTALLY WRONG or not do your own research.

I remember things from back in mid 1970's in Sonora and Jalisco.

Then again what happened in smaller Municipalities may not have been legal and non-legal property dealings may be very common.

All I can say is talk to your Notario/Lawyer about property ownership and what is best in your situation.

The 99 year lease is the name that old timers used to call it , search the internet you will find many references to it. Some call it a 99 year lease others the true name for the articles of incorporation for a Mexican Corporation (99 years). Every 99 years the company must be renewed. Years ago you or your relatives were not able to be major shareholders in the company. ( I believe that the percentage of ownership has changed)

I do recall talking to owners in Kino Bay (1975/1976) that talked about having 99 year leases on the beach front property, these leases could have been on Ejido Lands and not interest in an Mexican Corporation.

A bank trust is a fideicomiso and is very different, then a Mexican Corporation.

Ejido Lands cannot be purchased, some Ejido Lands have been converted to private ownership, I do not know if non nationals can purchase this property.

Types of real estate in Mexico:

Federal Maritime Land Zone
Restricted Zone

Anything from the 20 meter Federal Zone boundary inland to 50 kilometers
strip of land of 100 kms from either border

Ejido Lands
Unrestricted Zone

When I purchased land in Mexico, I did not have a FM2 or FM3 just a 180 day tourist visa.

I found this link: http://www.seggermanco.com/landownership.html that could help, seems that some laws changed in 1993.

(This post was edited by salto_jorge on Mar 30, 2011, 11:11 AM)

sparks

Mar 30, 2011, 12:40 PM

Post #22 of 36 (1914 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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We have escrituras on our Ejido land with a presta nombre. That is a far cry from the original papers from the '80's-'90's that gave lots to people if they made improvements (fence and build a house). If they didn't make the improvements within 2 years the Ejido could take the lot back.

Combine the presta nombre with a carta de poder and I have total rights (so far)

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Rolly

Mar 30, 2011, 1:23 PM

Post #23 of 36 (1898 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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Your definition of the Federal Zone is not compete. Here is a better description:

Federal Zones: All land within 20 meters (about 66 feet) of any permanent body of water -- oceans, lakes and rivers -- is national land. It cannot be owned by anyone, not even by a governmental body. The federal government does have the authority to issue conditional concessions for limited use of this land.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Moisheh

Mar 30, 2011, 1:24 PM

Post #24 of 36 (1896 views)

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Re: [salto_jorge] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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There is no Ejido land in Kino nor has there ever been any Ejido land here. In 1976 I doubt there were more than 2 or 3 foreigners with homes in Kino. There were very few homes on the beach. We have been here 20 years and in that period fidecisimos were available. I did that search and here is an example of what I found:

"Historically, dating back to the early days of the automobile and before, Baja beach front property has long
been offered as campground for vacationers. Surfers and weekenders came down with tents, but wanted
more than just the beach, maybe showers and BBQ facilities, “Let’s stay at a Campo (campground)!!” In time,
tents became trailers, some even got tired of dragging those trailers back and forth, so why not just leave
them here? Next the skirting, porches and rooftop decks. Some even built freestanding structures from
scratch, after all, why does the place need wheels if we’re just gonna leave it here anyway? Over the years
dirt roads have transformed into paved streets and mobile homes have morphed into permanent homes.
Landowners found that collecting rent money was profitable. Lessees, or those who rented space, enjoyed
the ocean, weather, and the feeling of freedom being in Mexico offers. It was a win-win relationship, and
still can be for a many. Almost unbelievably, today there are even some building half million dollar and up
homes….on leased land!..so there must be a reason? Maybe it’s history or location? Price?

Or just a complete misunderstanding of Mexican Lease Laws???

By law, leases for terms of in excess of ten years are neither legal, nor valid in any Mexican court.
Nor have they ever been, There is no such thing as a 99 year lease, and never has been as reported by
some of the American media. Neither is a 10-10-10 renewable for 30 years. By Mexican law, no residential
lease in excess of 10 years less a day is legal. Case closed!
(Commercial Leases can be for up to 15 years, and industrial leases for up to 20 years.)
"

(This post was edited by Moisheh on Mar 30, 2011, 1:28 PM)

richmx2

Mar 30, 2011, 1:43 PM

Post #25 of 36 (1890 views)

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Re: [Moisheh] FM3 Visa/Owning Property

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The Baja beach situation was entirely different. The foreigners bought property the same way they would anywhere else in the "exclusion zone"... the only difference being the "sellers" had stolen the land, and pút the "buyers" into the same position as any other receiver of stolen goods.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

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