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hunteradvisor

Jan 29, 2011, 7:03 AM

Post #1 of 20 (4229 views)

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Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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I have been told that our Mexican permit on our truck has expired and that the law changed recently, I remember that the permit was valid as long as our fm3 were kept current. Can anyone help me out with this as our helpers were pulled over recently and the police threatened to impound the truck, they paid a mordida to get out of the situation, but we need to resolve it.
Thanks,
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

RickS

Jan 29, 2011, 7:38 AM

Post #2 of 20 (4211 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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Isabel, your Temporary Imported Vehicle Permission is still valid as long as your visa (FM3 in your case) is valid. No changes there. However, you say that your 'helpers' were pulled over, and I assume you mean while driving the vehicle and that may be a problem. There are restrictions as to who may drive said vehicle: "the owner, the owner's spouse, parents, children or siblings, an immigrant receiving a pension from a foreign government, a non-immigrant (except a 'refugee'), or a Mexican National provided that he/she is accompanied by anyone authorized to drive the vehicle."

sparks

Jan 29, 2011, 7:39 AM

Post #3 of 20 (4212 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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>>>> as our helpers were pulled over recently

Should helpers have been driving it?

Sparks Mexico - Sparks Costalegre

Rolly

Jan 29, 2011, 7:43 AM

Post #4 of 20 (4209 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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The cops were looking for money. They don't have the authority to do anything about the permit; that's a federal matter.
If the law had changed, there would have be a loud cry from the expat community. We'd all know about it.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

hunteradvisor

Jan 30, 2011, 4:24 PM

Post #5 of 20 (4130 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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Hi Rolly,
Thanks for your help. Here is more detail, the drivers of our truck have a Canadian Driver's License, they are here on a Tourist Visa for 6 months helping us out and had permission to use the truck to pick up supplies. The import permit in the truck had a date of expiration in 2010 and this happened in Jan 2011. We were out of the country with our current fm3 visas on our person so they did not have the full documents in their possession and the police threatened to impound the truck due to an expired Mexican Import Permit. We want to resolve this asap in the event we are pulled over again.
Your advice means alot to us, thanks again.
Holly
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

sioux4noff

Jan 30, 2011, 4:36 PM

Post #6 of 20 (4129 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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Do you keep copies of your FM3 in the vehicle? It is a good idea to keep copies of all your paperwork which could come into question in the vehicle. A lewtter giving them permission to drive the vehicle would be a good idea, also.

turnabout

Jan 31, 2011, 6:20 AM

Post #7 of 20 (4074 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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"helping us out" sounds a lot like employment. Do not take the Mexican officials for fools, if they are employees you could be in big trouble if you get caught again. Expired permission on the tag, names not matching any paperwork...very lucky indeed. They should have and could have taken the truck.

Reefhound

Jan 31, 2011, 8:14 AM

Post #8 of 20 (4051 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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I agree that your friends and you were fortunate in this case. Based on the details provided, I don't see this as a sign that the laws have changed but that they were enforcing the existing law. An inherent part of meeting a requirement is having proof that you met it. Sounds like the cops had a vehicle with an expired permit and occupants who were neither the owner nor listed on the permit and no proof they had permission to drive it.

mexicobuff

Jan 31, 2011, 10:53 AM

Post #9 of 20 (4017 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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http://www.mexconnect.com/cgi-bin/forums/gforum.cgi?post=144378;#144378

Wasn't this whole situation, with all of its ramifications and possibilities, discussed in the 2010 thread above, before you let them drive the car? IMHO, you're lucky nobody has said, "I told you so."

hunteradvisor

Jan 31, 2011, 1:46 PM

Post #10 of 20 (3979 views)

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Re: Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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See Rolly's reply that the law has not changed regarding expiration of the auto permit, it's valid as long as your fm3 is valid, which ours are.
There is no law against having help with our ranch in exchange for housing and we have fm3 status that allow for business and employees should we need to hire in the future. What I was looking for is information regarding any possible change in the law if there has been one, for instance our permit was given to us at the border, a 3 day drive from here, where would we get it updated if it expires separately from our fm 3 visa?
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

hunteradvisor

Jan 31, 2011, 1:52 PM

Post #11 of 20 (3976 views)

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Re: [mexicobuff] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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This is exactly from Rolly in May 2010:
Re: [hunteradvisor] Foreign Registered and Plated Vehicle Quote | Reply | Private Reply They do qualify. The law says, in translation:

or by a foreigner who has the same immigration category as one of those herein referenced,

It's a bit confusing by the words "as one of those herein referenced.' This refers to a list in a previous section. FMT is OK.

The probability of their being stopped by the federales is pretty remote. The important issue is an OK from your insurance company.

Rolly Pirate

Reefhound

Jan 31, 2011, 2:32 PM

Post #12 of 20 (3966 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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So based on this information there should have been no issue when the truck was pulled over and the driver held a valid FMT. We do have permission from our insurance company for them to drive our vehicle.
Isabel

As I said, inherent in meeting a legal requirement is being able to provide proof of it if challenged by authorities. Did your helpers show the cops a written letter of permission for them to drive the car? Did your helpers show the cops the valid FM3 of the owner that allows the expired car permit to remain valid? If they did both of those things then you are correct, there should have been no issues.

chinagringo

Jan 31, 2011, 2:51 PM

Post #13 of 20 (3951 views)

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Re: [hunteradvisor] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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It seems to me that there is a valuable piece of the puzzle missing from this discussion. What flavor of cops pulled them over? As Rolly pointed out, an expired but good vehicle permit is a Federal matter and as I understand the laws, only they can deal with such a matter.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

hunteradvisor

Jan 31, 2011, 2:55 PM

Post #14 of 20 (3945 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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That is a very good question and one I am trying to track down. They think they were Feds, black and white car and dressed in black. The Feds I've seen normally travel in large groups, dress all in black with bullet proof vests and carry guns, I don't think these guys fit that description.
Thanks,
Isabel
www.RanchoSolyMar.com

mazbook1

Jan 31, 2011, 3:03 PM

Post #15 of 20 (3945 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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Yes, chinagringo, Rolly is correct, it is federal, but not the "federales". ONLY federal enforcement officers from SAT (Hacienda), the tax people who also have Aduana (customs) under their jurisdiction can enforce the temporary importation permit (and impound the vehicle). ANY regular police officer, city, state or federal who threatens to do so is just fishing for a propina (also, and usually, called mordida).

And yes, it has happened, albeit rarely. A gringa here in Mazatlán let her Mexican boyfriend use her car while she was visiting NOB, and SAT enforcement officers did impound it…permanently!

Reefhound

Jan 31, 2011, 3:07 PM

Post #16 of 20 (3942 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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But... couldn't a federal (or even municipal) cop simply notify a SAT officer and have them come to the scene to impound the car?

mazbook1

Jan 31, 2011, 3:11 PM

Post #17 of 20 (3940 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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POSSIBLY, Reefhound, but SAT officers are VERY thin on the ground and it's unlikely that they would be available for a traffic stop, except maybe in a port city (like Mazatlán) where they are necessary to deal with customs issues.

Reefhound

Jan 31, 2011, 3:21 PM

Post #18 of 20 (3939 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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Probably so but if you're on a FMT or FM3, and the cop says he's called for a SAT officer to impound the car, you're gonna have to have a lot of nerve to call his bluff.

Then there's the whole legal "theory" versus reality to consider. I don't know much about Mexican law, and certainly not claiming to, but my gut says the old adage "you can beat the rap but not the ride" likely applies as much if not more in Mexico as the U.S. So if a local cop has your car impounded regardless of his authority or lack of authority, what exactly is the recourse for a non-citizen (whose "rights" are notoriously protected)? Is he going to be able to get a judge to issue an order the next day forcing the cops to return his car? Or forcing SAT to return the car if they have gotten to it in the meantime?

mazbook1

Jan 31, 2011, 3:42 PM

Post #19 of 20 (3934 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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Reefhound, If the police officer SAYS that he has called for a SAT enforcement officer, you better not try to bluff him! But if he just threatens that he will impound the car, he is almost certainly trying to bluff/scare you into giving him a propina.

The only circumstance where a police officer actually CAN (and will) impound the foreign-plated car is if it is involved in an accident, and once the necessary financial settlement required by the court is made (or your insurance company appoints an adjuster to take care of the problem), you automatically get your car back. IF SAT impounds your car for a legitimate violation of the terms of the temporary importation permit, you will NEVER get the car back.

Marlene

Jan 31, 2011, 8:36 PM

Post #20 of 20 (3892 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Auto Permit Foreign Plate

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It's also pretty clear that the temporary import permit doesn't allow for the vehicle to be used for commercial or business purposes while in Mexico, if I recall correctly.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Jan 31, 2011, 8:37 PM)