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gpk

May 23, 2003, 7:51 AM

Post #1 of 12 (1152 views)

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Anti-Gringo Sentiments in Guanajuato

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An internet cafe/ice cream parlor in the city of Guanajuato will no longer permit Gringos to rent computers because of Bush/Iraq. This was in the newspaper A.M. here in Guanajuato. Any other anti-Gringo sentiments out there?

Carol Schmidt

May 23, 2003, 11:45 AM

Post #2 of 12 (1123 views)

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Re: [gpk] Anti-Gringo Sentiments in Guanajuato

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I've heard there are less than 200 gringos in all of Guanajuato, and some people tell me it's less than 50. So this internet cafe is not exactly rolling in gringo customers who will be put out or put off or even aware of this decision.

If the owner made a decision of conscience that really hurt his business, that would be one thing, but this strikes me as more of a publicity maneuver. Of course I have no actual knowledge of the decision, only the few sentences here third hand.

As someone who has worked on anti-racism issues back in the States for more than 40 years, I can see the pride and anger behind such a decision of someone to boycott an entire group because of feelings against its government, though I can also see how ridiculous and ineffective this kind of decision is and probably even unfair. Any kind of retaliation against any group because of a prejudice or extended stereotype about that group is wrong, but can be understood in context, and something as minor as this is not something to go to wall on.

Bush is not hardly going to be affected by an uproar from 50-200 gringos in Guanajuato that world opinion is hurting them (assuming all 50-200 said gringos used the internet, used this particular cafe, and would go so far as to write to Bush rather than simply changing to another cafe).

I'm half French-Canadian, so I have been annoyed by all the protests against French products by Americans upset France did not roll over for Bush on Iraq. Victory fries, victory kisses, pouring fine French wines down the gutter, how ridiculous. Someone in one of my art classes said she was going to throw out all her French-named paints, even though they were the finest colors that she used all the time! Who is going to hear this protest? Who will be hurt?

There is such a big anti-war sentiment here in San Miguel de Allende that I haven't seen any negativity from any Mexicans against gringos because of Bush policies, though people can feel what they like in their hearts, and do what they want with their pesos, and say anything they please on any political issue. There is a huge worldwide sentiment growing against the U.S. because of Bush's policies--read any of the world press to see, and you can even occasionally find it reported in U.S. mainstream press.

I don't think we should get excited by one business owner showing his feelings by such a move. He's entitled. In the U.S. we could probably file a lawsuit or make a fuss, also probably to no avail. Here the laws are different, and we have no say in Mexican politics anyway.

I believe that there has always been a certain amount of anti-gringo sentiment in Mexico, with good reason, considering past U.S. policies against Latinos, but I've experienced nothing but good feelings, in my one year here. I find Mexican people far more forgiving and accepting and generally nice than U.S. people overall, especially considering how many U.S. residents treat those coming from Mexico. When I hear about vigilantes at the Mexican border rounding up American visitors and business people to keep us from entering, I'll get excited!

Probably this post is far too long, I meant to say that it's no big deal, and here the length of my post has made it more of a big deal. I'm just rambling about a highly complex issue.

Carol Schmidt

Esteban

May 24, 2003, 9:00 AM

Post #3 of 12 (1085 views)

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Re: [gpk] Anti-Gringo Sentiments in Guanajuato

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I've spent some time in Guanajuato and knowing the Mexican culture, I'd bet that his policy is negoitable. I'd bet that if you talked to the owner in Spanish and showed some empathy, you might be able to come to an agreement.

jennifer rose

May 24, 2003, 9:56 AM

Post #4 of 12 (1074 views)

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What's His Shibboleth?

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I'm sort of curious how the vendor weeds out the unworthy? Does he card potential customers? Does he count Canadians and Mexican-Americans as gringos? What about Germans who could resemble Americans? It's not always easy to spot the gringos, y'know. The last time I checked, there wasn't a secret handshake, a bandana hanging from the wrong pocket, or even a password. (all in good humor, of course)

Methinks the vendor's just having a little fun while making a political statement, and I'd lay good money that, as Esteban mentioned, he's willing to negotiate.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

jrice

May 24, 2003, 10:18 PM

Post #5 of 12 (1038 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] What's His Shibboleth?

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On the other hand, I think there has been a shift in Mexican attitudes toward the U.S. in recent months. Utterly innocent middle class and academic Mexicans -- some of them sponsored by the U.S. government itself, in my first-hand experience -- have been insulted, harassed and physically detained at the borders. Did Bin Laden win by turning the supposedly suspicious, independent Yanks into Big Government lackeys? American government employees now routinely insult utterly innocent and well-meaning foreign visitors. Routinely.

The truck trailer deaths in Texas accounted for about five percent of the Mexican citizens who will die this year attempting to cross the border. We blame them, not the fact that the largest industry in the United States depends upon them, hires them, and profits.

You don't see accounts of most deaths unless you read the websites of individual papers across the border. They are too common.

Esteban

May 25, 2003, 6:45 AM

Post #6 of 12 (1020 views)

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Re: [jrice] What's His Shibboleth?

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I disagree.I don't see any shift in attitudes towards expats. There may be strong disagreement with the Bush administration and their policies such as the recent offering of a cut of Pemex in return for new immigration laws. I think you'll find the new "patriot" act to be putting the squeeze on a lot of folks who don't deserve it and I'm including those gringos who are politically connected and against the Bush regime. The profiling criteria has become much wider. Too bad Mexico doesn't have the power to go in and change the regime and give the power back to the people! :-)

ImTootsie

May 29, 2003, 10:16 PM

Post #7 of 12 (945 views)

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Re: [Esteban] What's His Shibboleth?

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I must say that after several days of reading these forums the most anti-gringo sentiments seem to come from gringos.

I'm not sure I'd fit in with the ex-pat community. Sort of like being the sole member of the Young Republicans Club at Berkeley during the Summer of Love.

ms mac

May 30, 2003, 8:07 AM

Post #8 of 12 (923 views)

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Re: [ImTootsie] What's His Shibboleth?

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Perhaps Ixtapa would be a better fit.
ms mac

yorikke

May 30, 2003, 8:42 AM

Post #9 of 12 (916 views)

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Re: [ImTootsie] What's His Shibboleth?

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In Reply To

I must say that after several days of reading these forums the most anti-gringo sentiments seem to come from gringos.

How many Mexicans subscribe to these forums?

Paz y amor

Uncle Donnie

May 30, 2003, 10:31 AM

Post #10 of 12 (905 views)

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Re: [ImTootsie] What's His Shibboleth?

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Hi Toots,

I came to Mexico to escape the kind of political posturing most of the anti-U.S., anti-Bush, anti-whoever's in office put on. It's really easy to ignore them down here so don't let that deter you from coming down.

Shameless self-promotion:
http://www.headformexico.com

jennifer rose

May 31, 2003, 4:52 AM

Post #11 of 12 (869 views)

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Re: [ImTootsie] What's His Shibboleth?

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Expatriates living in Mexico hardly form a monolithic community, marching in lockstep. Most don’t belong to the Chapala Society, and most don’t live in Chapala or San Miguel de Allende, although those are certainly areas of large foreign concentration.

While all foreigners living in Mexico could be considered “expatriates,” it’s important to recognize distinguish the disparate categories of foreigners. Some consider their time spent in Mexico the equivalent of a junior year abroad, some only view their residence here on a year-to-year basis, some are part of bi-national families, some are headed toward inmigrado or citizenship status, and some are none of the above. Some work very hard to become integrated into Mexican society and culture, and some remain, well, very foreign. Some are sojourners, and some seek permanency. And some are simply confused.

Expatriate communities have been part of Mexico’s landscape ever since Cortes and his merry band landed on our shores, and likely even before that. Some came for political reasons, some for economic reasons, some for adventure, some for romance and lifestyle, and some for reasons which probably defy categorization.

The are the political on both ends of the spectrum, some in the in-between zone, and some who frankly don’t care.

A love for Mexico aside, one of the bright points of living abroad is the broad range of personalities, lifestyles and persuasions in a community. Age, faith, and political beliefs don’t always have to factor into the equation. Those who require their prospective communities to pass a political litmus test are only isolating themselves. Frankly, in certain circles, it would be impolite to inquire of another’s political belief. Sometimes it’s better to leave those political tags back in the Old Country, or at least not wear them on your sleeve.

Back in the Old Country, it can be very easy to locate and live in a ghetto of like-minded believers. Part of the richness of living abroad is the diversity found within the foreign community, learning about and appreciating the differences among cultures, even among landsmen.

When the only common thread is living in Mexico, speaking English and having the same color cover on a passport, some interesting and unexpected alliances can arise – if you’ll allow them to happen.

Certainly, not everyone is going to join hands and sing “Kumbaya,” but it’s naïve to assume that all foreigners living here are necessarily liberal or even shaped by the same forces.

ImTootsie

May 31, 2003, 5:26 AM

Post #12 of 12 (866 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] What's His Shibboleth?

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I was talking about the majority I had read on THESE forums.

"Part of the richness of living abroad is the diversity found within the foreign community, learning about and appreciating the differences among cultures, even among landsmen."

Thank you, I've been an expat since 1982. Perhaps you might expand your horizons a bit & appreciate the differences from you!