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santaclause

Dec 20, 2010, 7:38 AM

Post #1 of 24 (3206 views)

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vehicle permit not returned

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Hello, I just had a few questions and I thought that the more experienced travelers might be able to help me. About a year and a half ago I went down to Mexico, I obtained my insurance, my vehicle permit, and my travelers visa. Visited for a few days and then returned to the states, fully intending to go back before the expiration date of the permit, this did not happen. I never made it back down to the border and to top it off I found out that in return for the visas that were confiscated at the migracion checkpoint, I was supposed to receive a stamp on my passport for. I didn't get one thing, not a receipt, not a stamp, nothing. My question is how do I get my permit returned to the border and straighten out the travelers visa? And will the Mexican government pursue me for not turning in the vehicle permit? Thank you.

chinagringo

Dec 20, 2010, 7:56 AM

Post #2 of 24 (3193 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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Dear Santa:

Since you don't mention the crossing involved, I can only say what happened to us. We have never had your problem with the vehicle permit but had a rather unpleasant and expensive situation with expired Visas. After being assured by a number of seasoned Mexico travelers to not worry about expired Visas, we were caught at Santa Teresa(NM)/San Jeronimo(CHIH) crossing. We were informed that the fine was $5 USD per day since expiration. In our case, we were looking at 90 days x $5 for each of us ($900 USD total). After being dragged into the office, we started "negotiating" with two women from Immigration. They used some sort of printed chart for determining a reduction in fines. We got in further hot water since one of us was also in possession of an expired FM3. Even with that side issue, we were able to negotiate our total fine down to $400 USD (payable only in USD). Our guess was that the two women had a nice visit to the El Paso Outlet Mall!

Good luck!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

santaclause

Dec 20, 2010, 8:02 AM

Post #3 of 24 (3190 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] vehicle permit not returned

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Nuevo Laredo was the boarder we crossed and there were four of us. Sounds like an expensive trip. Anyone know what happens if you just never go back into mexico?

Reefhound

Dec 20, 2010, 8:03 AM

Post #4 of 24 (3190 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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This is why many of us here strongly advise people to always cancel the permit upon leaving. Even though it is good for multiple entry and you think you might be back soon the downside risk is just not worth the $35 to $50.

Normally, the only way to cancel the permit is to drive that car back to a port of entry and have them cancel and remove it. The Mexican consulates cannot cancel it. You cannot simply remove the sticker and mail it back. They wants to physically see the car with the sticker on it. They will check your VIN against your permit, scan the sticker, remove it, and give you a cash register type receipt that you should hang onto.

That said, I recall seeing here something about an "amnesty" this month where a few select consulates would be allowed to cancel the permits of those who forgot to get it canceled at the border.

Reefhound

Dec 20, 2010, 8:11 AM

Post #5 of 24 (3181 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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If you never go back to Mexico you'll be fine. It isn't something you can be extradited over.

It should also be noted that in Neil's case, as with several others I've heard who have been "caught" with expired visas, that immigration officials only discovered this when the expired visas were inadvertently shown to them. I've never heard of an instance where they caught someone because something popped up in their records. I doubt they would ever know if you don't tell them.

But their records on vehicle permits are much better. If you try to get another permit, your unreturned one will show up on their records and you'll be denied.

santaclause

Dec 20, 2010, 8:18 AM

Post #6 of 24 (3178 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] vehicle permit not returned

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On speaking with someone on this I was told that they could arrest you and put you in jail. So I thank you all for your responses, it is comforting. I am still a little concerned as to why the visas were confiscated by migracion.

Reefhound

Dec 20, 2010, 8:31 AM

Post #7 of 24 (3171 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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Tourist visas? They must be returned when you leave. What migration officials took them?

Mexico cannot arrest anyone for anything inside the U.S., something about jurisdiction... For certain felonies (murder, rape, kidnapping, etc) they can issue a warrant through Interpol and any country that is a member to certain treaties are obligated to enforce it.

Reefhound

Dec 20, 2010, 8:49 AM

Post #8 of 24 (3163 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] vehicle permit not returned

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BTW, here is the thread on canceling your permit at a consulate. Only in Chicago and Denver. Rolly says "From now through 10 December" but I'm not clear if that means to Dec. 10th or to end of December 2010. His post also gives the address to begin the tedious process in the event you simply cannot return the car to the border.

santaclause

Dec 20, 2010, 8:51 AM

Post #9 of 24 (3162 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] vehicle permit not returned

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There was a small trailer before reaching the border that had a sign that said migracion on it. But I never received a stamp or anything that said they had it back, I believe I still have copies of the visas though. I was told later on that I was supposed to receive a stamp in my passport for this?

santaclause

Dec 20, 2010, 8:53 AM

Post #10 of 24 (3160 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] vehicle permit not returned

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I thank both you and Rolly for your help and advice. I will read it asap. I wish I had read this site before going into Mexico. I did really enjoy the visit, the country is so very beautiful.

(This post was edited by santaclause on Dec 20, 2010, 8:56 AM)

chinagringo

Dec 20, 2010, 9:13 AM

Post #11 of 24 (3150 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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I neglected to mention that the way we were caught on the expired Visas was because her Passport wasn't stamped out or really didn't have the Visa cancellation stamp. I had a clean Passport with no stamps and only go caught because my old FMT was folded inside of hers. Using this logic, one could wait for their Passport to expire or order a replacement Passport because the dog chewed it up. With a lean Passport, they wouldn't pick up on the stamp issue and that appears to be their only way of tracking.

I tried to find the earlier post on the vehicle permit amnesty without success. I believe it was made in the last couple of months?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

chicois8

Dec 20, 2010, 9:17 AM

Post #12 of 24 (3149 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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I can see the headline:

Mexico arrests santaclause, no vehicle permit!!!

santaclause

Dec 20, 2010, 9:47 AM

Post #13 of 24 (3143 views)

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Re: [chicois8] vehicle permit not returned

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LOL, I'm sure santaclause wouldn't get arrested, not sure about an American tourist. Thanks for the laugh though, really needed one. I would love to move to Mexico and start up a business. Would be a great place to live. I can't really afford it though, so alas, yet another dream on hold.

Reefhound

Dec 20, 2010, 9:58 AM

Post #14 of 24 (3132 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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Keep the dream alive. Resolve your vehicle permit issue.

Personally, I have never had them stamp my passport coming or going except when traveling by air. Did they stamp yours on entry? I don't think you'll have a problem. You can truthfully insist that you turned in your permit to immigration as required.

santaclause

Dec 20, 2010, 10:08 AM

Post #15 of 24 (3122 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] vehicle permit not returned

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Thank you all for your response. I will work on the permit. Colorado and Illinois are a bit to far to travel, but maybe they will have one soon in Nebraska, lol. Again, thank you.

Rolly

Dec 20, 2010, 10:31 AM

Post #16 of 24 (3119 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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Here is what I wrote on my website:

If, for whatever reason, you fail to turn in the permit when you exit the country, you will have to return to the border in that car with the sticker still in place to get it off the computer record. You don't have to do it right away; it can be the next time you visit México. There is, at this time in 2010, no fine or other hassle. But you must return in the same car with the sticker still on the windshield. If you cannot return with that car, there is a procedure for getting it out of the computer. Details here.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

(This post was edited by Rolly on Dec 20, 2010, 10:34 AM)

santaclause

Dec 20, 2010, 11:27 AM

Post #17 of 24 (3102 views)

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Re: [Rolly] vehicle permit not returned

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Thank you Rolly. The information was very helpful.

mazbook1

Dec 20, 2010, 3:36 PM

Post #18 of 24 (3066 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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The problem with the tourist visas is non-existent, just don't bring the subject up as others have said. Most border crossings don't even have an easy place to turn it in and hardly anyone does. The stamp in your passport has no significance at all. chinagringo just had the bad luck to do everything wrong at border immigration. Had he and his wife just asked for new tourist visas, there would have been zero problems.

The non-returned sticker is another thing entirely. It can ONLY (realistically) be returned at the border check point (around 25 km into México) where you get the computerized cancellation tape. Having done so with a long-expired sticker, there is no repercussion at all to turning it in late. Then (as I did) going into the checkpoint office and getting a new one.

10 December in Mexican style (which Rolly and I both use) is Dec. 10th, not Dec. 2010.

chinagringo

Dec 20, 2010, 4:38 PM

Post #19 of 24 (3052 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] vehicle permit not returned

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Sorry Maz but that is exactly what we did. I turned my application in first but when Kathy tuned hers in, the lack of Passport exit stamp raised the red flag. I would never had been caught since the previous trip I was still using a Birth Certificate that had stamps on the back. Had I still been allowed to use that document, I would have been caught too. As I stated earlier, the only reason that I was caught was because my FMT was folded together with Kathy's. She knew she was busted and decided to give it up.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

mazbook1

Dec 20, 2010, 5:02 PM

Post #20 of 24 (3048 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] vehicle permit not returned

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chinagringo, No, really, that passport stamp has no particular significance. I have exited and entered México who knows how many times in the last 50 odd years, and the ONLY time I have turned in my tourist visa was at an airline checkin the few times I flew out. I could show you my passports for the (almost) 12 years before I became a Mexican citizen, and there aren't enough stamps (either exit stamps or entrance stamps) to cover but a tiny fraction of the times I entered and exited (and the last few times really should be exited and entered) México. Of course now (last couple of years) I exit and enter with my Mexican passport, so never get a stamp in my U.S. passport.

I think you just got bamboozled by some INM folks wanting their aguinaldo early, as I never heard of having to pay a Mexican fine with U.S. Dollars!

(This post was edited by mazbook1 on Dec 20, 2010, 5:06 PM)

chinagringo

Dec 20, 2010, 8:02 PM

Post #21 of 24 (3003 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] vehicle permit not returned

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YMMV! Why argue about what did or didn't happen or what we may or may not have done wrong? As I have said before: the only consistency in Mexico is its inconsistency! Sure we could have used the Juarez crossing and maybe had a different experience? Like bullet holes?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

jerezano

Dec 21, 2010, 6:14 AM

Post #22 of 24 (2975 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] vehicle permit not returned

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Hello all,

mazbook1 is correct in his statements about the return of the tourist permit with ONE EXCEPTION. He said:.............The non-returned sticker is another thing entirely. It can ONLY (realistically) be returned at the border check point (around 25 km into México) where you get the computerized cancellation tape...............

You may also turn in the tourist permit at the border crossing point with the aduana section. Same computerized tape as proof (constancia) of your return.

I did this recently at the Los Indios (Free Trade International Bridge) crossing in November of 2010. I did this because at the Reynosa check point some 21 or so km inside of Mexico I was told that it had to be done at the border crossing and the Los Indios crossing was most convenient for my trip to Harlingen.

As ever, jerezano.

Reefhound

Dec 21, 2010, 7:48 AM

Post #23 of 24 (2960 views)

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Re: [jerezano] vehicle permit not returned

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Border crossings vary. In some cases these services are right at the border, in others they are at the interior checkpoint. And there is no standard in how things are laid out or signed. I've been through six different crossings in Texas and they all are a bit different, and I couldn't advise anyone on crossing in New Mexico or Arizona except in a general sense.

jrpierce

Dec 22, 2010, 11:29 AM

Post #24 of 24 (2886 views)

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Re: [santaclause] vehicle permit not returned

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FWIW, I have had two friends--both experienced travelers back and forth to the USA--who had problems with vehicle permits. In both cases they failed to surrender the permits at the border (though both knew they were supposed to, they both had "good" reasons not to). In one case my friend returned with a new car (having sold the old car with the permit still on it). In the other case, my other friend went to the Embassy in Denver and thought he had canceled the permit with them. When he returned, he had the original car but did not have the travel trailer which also had a permit on it.

In both cases, before they could be allowed back into Mexico, they had to return to the border with the vehicles on which the permits had not been surrendered. Both tried everything possible to negotiate with the officials, but to no avail.

Of course, the simplest solution to the problem is always to surrender the permit at the border and get the computerized proof that you did so.