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jreboll

Sep 22, 2004, 9:53 PM

Post #1 of 14 (767 views)

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choice of shopping

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Someone just set up an estanquillo next to my house. It's very convenient to go there for refreshments. The prices are competitive and they have a good selection of everything that we need. However, we still go half a block down to Mr. Ramiro's store to buy most of what we need. Mr. Ramiro is an older gentleman. His diabetes and his recent bout of phlebitis haven't erased his warm smiile and friendly disposition. My kids, now in their twenties, remember the times when they could go there and buy treats for all their friends and say "ponlo en la cuenta." They and Mr. Ramiro knew we didn't aprove of this but Mr. Ramiro would never say no. We as grownups also had our moments when money was tight and we knew we could go there and say "apuntelo" and we could get what we needed at that moment.
Here in the states I frequent a hardware store that will sell me a screw or a washer without my having to buy a dozen of each. Sure, we have Home Depot and WalMart but it is so much nicer to talk to someone who is knowledgeable of what I need.
I know I am rambling about different things but I'll bet some people care about service and about seeing a product that says "Made in America" and would be willing to pay a little extra to see these things.

Bubba

Sep 23, 2004, 7:58 AM

Post #2 of 14 (733 views)

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Re: [jreboll] choice of shopping

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I had a friend who lived on the wild and largely uninhabited coast south of San Francisco.He lived in what had traditionally been a portuguese fishing village known as Pescadero which is located on the sea about 40 miles south of the city. He fell in love with the notion of of this small coastal village and bought the local hardware store. He had visions of good ole boys whittlin' on the bench out front and sharing a few brews at the local pub down the street. Surely, the ole boys would come in to see Tom to get the occasional bolts and screws or a few nails. Now, despite the fact that Pescadero was isolated on the cold and rugged Northern California coast, if one drove over the twisted and primitive roads of the coast range to the inland urban centers of San Mateo and Santa Clara Counties, there were countless huge discount box stores selling everything Tom was selling and a great deal more at substantially less markup. Tom knew he could never compete with the urban box stores about a 45 minute arduous drive into the city but he always thought that people would stop in for small purchases and miscellaneous hardware items needed on their various home improvement projects. He could survive on that, or so he thought.

Well, Tom went broke. A while later, he and I were sitting in one of our favorite watering hole in San Francisco's financial district and Tom was bleeding over this experience which had been a costly lesson for him in a number of ways. After loosening up with a few horns, he told me, " You know, I never would have believed how cheap people can be. The same ole boys who crowded my bench all day long never bought a damn thing from me but never stopped yakking so I could concentrate on my bookkeeping. Those skinflints would drive all the way to Redwood City to Home Depot to save a couple of bucks rather than patronize me even though the net cost to them was far greater after considering the expense of driving over the mountain. And, when I tried to take ownership of my bench out front and kick those reprobates out, I found out that it wasn't my bench at all.The town turned against me because, after all, I was from San Jose and never belonged there anyway. Why, I wasn't even Portuguese."

I also hope that the small local merchant will survive the box store phenomenon here in Mexico. I grew up in small town Alabama and we always tried to support our local merchants. But then came the interstate and the huge box stores in Montgomery just 38 miles away and, today, the main street of my home town is deserted and forlorn. Let's hope that doesn't happen here.

(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 23, 2004, 8:00 AM)

Carol Schmidt

Sep 23, 2004, 9:32 AM

Post #3 of 14 (709 views)

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Re: [Bubba] choice of shopping

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I lived outside a small town in rural Michigan that was an 80-mile, non-freeway drive to Detroit and around 40 miles to any large city. Both a Wal-Mart and K-Mart decided to come to town.

The Wal-Mart picked land that had some creeks in it, so they were stopped because it was wetlands. K-Mart, a Michigan-based store, did come to town and within two years half our "downtown" was vacant.

The little stores which did offer service at slightly higher prices couldn't compete--price won over service, neighborliness, and loyalty to neighbors.

I had a ceramics shop where women would come in for a couple of hours to get away from the kids and the farm and do something beautiful and rant about their husbands a bit.

They'd pay $20 for the greenware to make their own cannister set, and another $20 for the two firings to decorate it and make it foodsafe, plus maybe $12 in class time and $5 in glazes. For $57 they'd have something totally unique, totally their own, and the personal experience of having created something that others would admire and the time off from their lives to just rant in a safe place for awhile. A nice cannister set from a good store would cost much more than that.

K-Mart had cannister sets from China for $20. Everybody within a 40-mile range had one just like the two or three styles K-Mart offered, and you'd know just how much your neighbor paid for hers and where she got it.

But now women would come into my shop and say, I can get the entire finished cannister set for $20, why should I pay that just for the greenware? They'd still rant about how terrible metro Detroit was but now their money went to K-Mart's headquarters in metro Detroit instead of going into the cycle in the town's economy.

I would have quit the store anyway for health reasons but K-Mart did ruin our area's small businesses, and it destroyed a nice part of the town life, that camaraderie, that sense of personal involvement with your neighbors.

When a woman made a frilly lamp for a neighbor's newborn daughter, that girl would grow up knowing her neighbor liked her and cared enough for her to make something personal for her, something unique, just for her.

Now the girl sees a hundred lamps just like the one so-and-so bought for her when she was a baby, big deal.

Oh, customers would still come in and want me to put in Christmas lights into the village set they'd bought at K-Mart for $30, a set they could have made themselves at my shop for probably $60 and had a good time doing it, but now I'm supposed to take my time and drill holes in the roofs of the buildings made in China and do the hard work of lighting it up for them and make only a few dollars and be glad to do it.

The little accessories like tiny lightbulbs that sell for a few cents might be what the customer bought from me after K-Mart came to town because K-Mart didn't sell such minor items, or at least not individually. I'd make four cents, K-Mart made $40. And they'd be mad if I didn't have the right size to fit the Chinese-built item.

Yeah, I offered service, neighborliness, individuality, all sorts of things, but K-Mart was cheaper.

Carol Schmidt

alex .

Sep 23, 2004, 2:25 PM

Post #4 of 14 (657 views)

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how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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The people who like the small , cozy places drive me crazy when they try to behave the same way at the big places. Here I am with my faucet washers in hand, trying to pay for them and the old guy in front of me in line wants to talk about all the places that he hurts and what medicines he's taking nowadays and how maybe he ought to brush his dog's teeth. Then he wants advice on how to install HIS bunch of faucet washers. Heck, I already KNOW how to fix the faucet, which is why I'm buying the parts to start with. The clerk says "that will be $1.87 with tax" and the old guy opens his change purse and puts coins on the counter one at a time. Dang. I would just flip 2 bucks and let the cashier make the change, the cashier makes change for a living and can do it a hell of a lot faster than I can. Geez. I could have been home, fixed the faucet and been enjoying a dip in the pool by now.....my time IS worth something.
Alex

(This post was edited by alex . on Sep 23, 2004, 2:32 PM)

Carol Schmidt

Sep 23, 2004, 5:58 PM

Post #5 of 14 (615 views)

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Re: [alex .] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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You moved to Mexico why again? You're obviously not on Mexico time. Who needs the stress of facing people like you in a line behind me? Ease up, go with the flow, enjoy life, let people be.

Carol Schmidt

RafKarina

Sep 23, 2004, 6:00 PM

Post #6 of 14 (613 views)

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Re: [alex .] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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Hey Alex, I'm glad your time is valuable. How about some empathy for folks with a different concept of time than yours.

I was brought back to the time when my brother used his librito de fiado at the corner store, El Canton. We had different simple and sane choices: el mercado downtown, Don Evaristo's store, Moy's little store, el puesto de la esquina, and all the itinerant merchants. Here in LA I sometimes use the HOME DEPOT but I prefer the personalized service of the nearby hardware stores. And thank God we have all the small ethnic stores which I prefer to the ALBERTSONS and their computerized customer preferred programs with all my private information and frigid atmosphere. Most of the time the cashiers don't even have the energy to smile and say hello.

johanson

Sep 23, 2004, 6:46 PM

Post #7 of 14 (596 views)

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Re: [RafKarina] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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Now remember guys and girls, before we get too hard on Alex, there are at least two Mexicos. And although, I haven't been to Monterey many times, don't most of those who live in Monterey have the same hustle and bustle that Alex has?

I volunteer at a local ISP. Those still working be they Mexican, American, Canadian etc, usually come in, take care of business and leave very rapidly. Most of the retired folk are the same way. Sadly there are a few, usually gentlemen from NOB, who apparently have so little to do, that they come in wanting to socialize. And a one minute conversation, if I allowed it would be expanded into 30 minutes. That wouldn’t be fair to those waiting behind him. Luckily as the person answering the questions, I can somewhat control the length of the conversation.

Changing the subject slightly, one of the funniest angry phone calls I received was from a lady who had a dialup connection with us, who couldn’t get on line, and went to the phone in her house and tried to phone us to complain. Her phone line was dead; so she went to a payphone and phoned the office complaining that she couldn’t get on line. Rather than being apologetic when I explained to her that if her phone line didn’t work, there was no way she could go on line, she got angrier. It’s customers like this that rather than making me mad, are so unbelievable and therefore to me entertaining, that I enjoy volunteering.

(This post was edited by johanson on Sep 23, 2004, 6:49 PM)

talosian

Sep 23, 2004, 6:52 PM

Post #8 of 14 (590 views)

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Re: [RafKarina] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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I remember my grandparents had a neighborhood mini-mart before there were mini-marts. A little of everything and it was nice but of course when the larger supermarkets came into the neighborhood, well, you know.

So yes, I agree 100% with buying local and I do that; I love shopping at the hardware store (the little one by TelMex) but if I had to buy a TV (which I actually do), I would go to Costco or WalMart because the difference in price could well be $100 or more from buying locally.

Also remember, a lot of people come and live in Mexico because they are on a fixed income and over the period of a month or two, the difference between buying local and at the "big box" stores may be substantial to their budget.

I also get a kick out of the fact if I go to the pier at the lake (Chapala) I can get an ice cream cone and it will cost me $15, or I can talk a couple of blocks away from the tourist/gringo area and get a larger one for $8 (at the plaza).

My point? None really, just rambling.

Spock.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

johanson

Sep 23, 2004, 7:11 PM

Post #9 of 14 (576 views)

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Re: [talosian] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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Talosian you said you needed a new TV and talked about the good prices at Costco and Wal-Mart. Don't forget to go to the Liverpool Shopping Center which in Guadalajara is between Costco and Wal-Mart, where when we talked cash, I was offered an HDTV at a price so much less than advertised that it was less than the Costco price. If you offer cash often they will drop the price significantly.

mrchuck

Sep 24, 2004, 5:42 AM

Post #10 of 14 (526 views)

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Re: [johanson] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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Thank goodness for progress.
Yes, that is what all you people are talking about regarding the mega-stores in Mexico.
If we didn't have progress, no one on this board would be living down here in Mexico in their retirement, cause the "model T" car you would be driving couldn't of made it down here.
Yeah, you would still be up in bum-f**k Iowa, or somewhere, complaining to your neighbor, as there wouldn't a computer internet to make contact with.

All that being said over spilt milk, the big Soriana's stores, Ley's, Costco"s, CCC's, and soon a Home Depot, and an Office Depot to come, are just simply wonderful over here at the "tip of the Baja Peninsula".
I wish we had a Walmart too. Soon, they say.
I believe that the local poor mexican families can now see that they must raise their children to a higher level for them to get a job in one of them.
Already, I personally see families working harder so they can go shop at them.
All these new HUGE stores here are NOT for the "rich tourist gringos".
Yes, you see this type of shopper in them, but really open your eyes, and you will see normal type of Mexican families shopping side by side with the "wealthy" Mexican Hotel owner buying supplies.

All little stores in any country in the world will lose out to the huge store if that little store doesn't find it's niche or specialty product to sell.

I also see the "BIG STORES" donating more to the community and also paying it's fair share of taxes to the Govt, where the small store always try to not pay the taxes or make donations.
Saludos, mc

Bubba

Sep 24, 2004, 9:45 AM

Post #11 of 14 (473 views)

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Re: [alex .] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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I have to agree with Alex on this even though his response on another thread concerning the 1,000 monkeys and 1,000 typewriters gave me a severe headache and caused me to break my diet.

Here in Ajijic AKA Geezer Central, the Old FAARPS meticulously and slowly counting out centavos while chatting about their most recent operation is a common occurrence giving Bubba time to fantasize about their screams as I turn up the gas under the oil vat demanding, "Count This!" but then I crash back to reality. Maybe the new Soriana in Chapala could put in an express line only for people who have been members of various local expat societies for 10 years or longer. This would be a hidden benefit for the rest of us.

jimindetroit

Sep 24, 2004, 11:40 AM

Post #12 of 14 (447 views)

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Re: [jreboll] choice of shopping

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I grew up in a border town on Lake Huron where my Swedish grandfather was minister at the town's Presbyterian church. The "adjective deleted man" would ring his hand bell every Wednesday as his horse pulled the cart through our neighborhood and folks would run to his cart. There, the "adjective deleted man" would sharpen knives and lawnmowers, replace handles on skillets, etc., from his miniature machine shop on his cart. Every Friday the Italian vegetable man would come through in his horse-drawn cart, and on Saturdays the egg lady drove her farm truck down our street.
The local grocer knew us kids, of course, and allowed us to put our pop and candy purchases on my dad's monthly tab. It was the '50s and everything seems so simple then.

This year we came to your village with cobblestone streets. The roosters and church bells woke us each morning; we stared at the twinkling lights across the lake at night before the dogs barked us to sleep. We walked through your village and the locals smiled and spoke to us in a language we barely could speak. We saw extended families in the plaza, old men on the benches, a wedding in a 500 year-old chapel. On occasion, a few cows would be guided down the narrow village streets; men on horseback would pass us; we saw a stray burro being followed by a dog and a cat. It seemed so 1950's and simple again.

Each of us NOB, likely, is looking for something we don't have: a simpler lifestyle, a little more discretionary income, meaningful friendships, the opportunity to do some good for others. And after living among a million or more people for thirty years, we saw and felt something in your village that makes us want to return.

(This post was edited by jennifer rose on Sep 24, 2004, 12:36 PM)

Texwheel

Sep 24, 2004, 5:53 PM

Post #13 of 14 (381 views)

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Re: [Bubba] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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Come on Bubba, the first day they installed a fast check-out would also be the first day you had a couple of cocktails prior to going shopping, and you'd be the old codger holding up the check-out line while you tried to count pesos!

I did talk to the folks at Sam's in this area...if you can locate a manager type person you feel like you've located the holy grail...and they said they've tried quick check-out and couldn't machine-gun the hordes of complainers fast enough.
Tom Williams
Georgetown, Texas
Texwheel@aol.com

talosian

Sep 24, 2004, 10:30 PM

Post #14 of 14 (342 views)

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Re: [johanson] how much is your time worth? some folks don't get it

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Thanks. I thought the large places, especially in malls, weren't into dickering. I'll check when I return.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.