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talosian

May 19, 2004, 9:10 AM

Post #1 of 47 (1763 views)

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This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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I was looking up information on auto insurance in the archives and found this in a 2002 post:

I saw one interesting case while in Ajijic. While eating at a outside cafe, a Dominos driver on a motorcycle hit the parked car of a fellow diner. The rider was hurt badly and many people saw him loose control and hit the car. The car owner and his wife were removed from the cafe by the police and taken to the Chapala jail. I assume he was released when he could show he had insurance. It was so strange to see this 70+ man and wife taken to jail for owning a parked car that was hit by one of these Domino's nutty drivers. Oh well, that's life in Mexico..

Can this be actually true???

Also, is the insurance rate different for a Mexican plated car and one from the U.S. or Canada? How so? I assume driving record is considered but do the Mexican Ins. agents get a copy of your DMV record from whereevery you come from?

Just curious now but it will be relevant later.

Thanks.

"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Rolly

May 19, 2004, 9:43 AM

Post #2 of 47 (1721 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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1. The owner of a parked car is not arrested and taken to jail. He/she may be asked to come to the police office to make a report.

2. Yes, the rates for foreign plated cars are generally lower than for Mexican plated cars. Who knows why?

3. The driver's record is not considered. The rates are based upon the value of the car, etc.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

talosian

May 19, 2004, 9:51 AM

Post #3 of 47 (1715 views)

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Re: [Rolly] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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Maybe it just looked as if they couple were arrested.

Also, what if the vehicle is in two names (husband and/or wife), how does that effect insurance and even bringing it into Mexico? In California, cars are often registered in the name of both the husband and wife.

Always something else.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Carol Schmidt

May 19, 2004, 12:05 PM

Post #4 of 47 (1692 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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I've been told by long time residents that when there is some confusion the police will sometimes take all parties to jail and let the lawyers and insurance agents sort it all out with everyone in safe custody. Many Mexicans are urged to run whenever there's an accident, no matter what, and I've had long time gringo residents tell me the same thing, though of course running invalidates your insurance claim! No way could I ever leave the scene of an accident. I always check that my car insurance plan has a legal clause to it where I can call the rep and he will come out immediately to the accident scene on my behalf.

Bubba

May 19, 2004, 2:10 PM

Post #5 of 47 (1679 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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The story about the Domino's scooter driver and the parked car is not strange at all. One can, indeed, be jailed as a material witness to an accident here.

Recently, a family returning to Ciudad Guzman from Guadalajara airport late at night were broadsided by a semi as they sat motionless on the shoulder of the highway to Barra da Navidad. Their car was totalled and three of the five occupants were killed and another was hospitalized. The truck driver fled. The totally innocent driver of the wrecked car, who was the husband of one of one the dead women and kin to the other woman and a child killed in the accident, was arrested on the spot and transported to a jail in Guadalajara where he was incarcerated at least overnight. Don't tell me he wasn't under arrest - by definition.

Whether or not you are arrested after an accident, you had better have legal aid as a stipulation in your insurance policy or your butt will belong to the local authorities whomever they may be.

After you have lived here a while, you will realize how funny it is to think that your driving "record" has anything to do with auto insurance rates.

talosian

May 19, 2004, 2:23 PM

Post #6 of 47 (1670 views)

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Re: [Bubba] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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What I have read here is scary. What if your ins. agent/claims adjuster isn't available immediately? I can see a totally innocent person/victim sitting in a Mexican jail not knowing when he will be released. And has been pointed out, what if he is injured. Or what if it's a frail woman? Can a passenger also be held?

So being diplomatic, I would wonder if there is any local "wiggle room" on the arrest portion. In other words, would it cause more problems for the driver to tell and show the police he/she is a resident, etc. and offer to show his/her "appreciation" for not immediatlely being taken into custody?

I know appreciationi works well in most other instances but how about this type?

Thoughts?
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

gbatrucks

May 19, 2004, 2:40 PM

Post #7 of 47 (1663 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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Get busted with one beer under your belt in the Czech Republic & see what happens...it ain't pretty. Try drinking in public in Saudi Arabia & it gets worse. Point is, your logic basis is based on American assumptions that have nothing to do with anywhere else in the world. Read Bubba's post again and assume it is the God's honest truth as to the way things are in Mexico. Don't try to analyze it. If in doubt, trust Bubba.

Trucks
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."

talosian

May 19, 2004, 2:46 PM

Post #8 of 47 (1659 views)

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Re: [gbatrucks] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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I read the post but I have also read that greasing the wheels is a very well accepted way in Mexico to handle matters or at least smooth out the possible problems. I'm not talking about anyplace other than Mexico.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

esperanza

May 19, 2004, 2:51 PM

Post #9 of 47 (1661 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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I believe that I have posted this scenario before, but in case you haven't read it here--one more time.

A dear friend of mine (Mexican citizen) took her new fiancé (US citizen) to meet her relatives in Ensenada. A grand weekend was had by all; on Sunday afternoon the happy couple headed toward San Diego, chattering about their coming wedding as she drove. As they approached Tijuana from Rosarito, a pickup truck driven by a well-known local crossed the median and slammed broadside into their vehicle. She was killed on impact. Her fiancé was seriously injured. The truck driver was not injured--he was too drunk to be hurt.

The police arrived. The fiancé was taken to the Tijuana municipal jail--not treated for his injuries--and was held there for three days before he was released after pressure was applied by authorities on the US side of the border. Mexican authorities refused to release her body until a week later 'in case more details of the accident might come to light'.

And the driver of the pickup? No charges filed.

Talosian, there is no wiggle room in this kind of situation. Mexican law--based on Napoleonic law--presumes you guilty until you are proven innocent. The fact that you are a foreign resident in Mexico has no bearing on the case: you are subject to the laws of the country in which you are living. My friend's fiancé was presumed guilty because he was in the car, he was male, and he was presumed to have been driving.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on May 19, 2004, 2:53 PM)

gbatrucks

May 19, 2004, 3:04 PM

Post #10 of 47 (1648 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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I wouldn't advise trying to bribe a cop in this serious a situation. I do plan to make the acquaintance of a good lawyer upon my arrival & make sure he will be "on call" all hours. Due Process has a totally different meaning SOB.

Trucks
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."

talosian

May 19, 2004, 3:18 PM

Post #11 of 47 (1640 views)

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Re: [gbatrucks] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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OK, I think I get the picture. To me the really scary part is that someone can be completely innocent of any fault (even istting in their own parked car with the engine off and hit by a drunk in the parking lot) and they can be thrown in jail without medical help if needed. So clearly Mexico isn't perfect in this respect though it's an important one.

I complain a lot about the legal system (incorrectly called the justice system) in the U.S. but from what I have read in this thread, I prefer it over the Mexican system.

So I will just drive very carefully and know that if some blind drunk driver corsses over the line, jumps the curb and plows into my car in a parking lot, I'll be spending time at the Mexican version of the "Hotel Greybar".

Whatever.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

gpk

May 19, 2004, 4:47 PM

Post #12 of 47 (1623 views)

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Re: [Rolly] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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The cost of insurance, on my Mexican plated car, goes down every year because the value goes down and I haven't made any claims, so the driver's record is considered--sort of.

rockydog85251

May 19, 2004, 5:17 PM

Post #13 of 47 (1615 views)

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Re: [gpk] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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While sitting in our house one day during the remodel, I heard a crash and a tinkling sound of broken glass.
I told my husband I was going out to just check and make sure our car was okay because we hadn't lived in the neighborhood too long and to my horror, a young girl had pulled out of her parking spot across the street and driven right into the driver's side back door. She had gotten out and was looking at it so I grabbed our digital camera and took pictures. Our kind neighbor told us to call our insurance agent after listening to some conversation between the driver and others in the street. Our agent came after learning that she did not have insurance and the police were called. We were all told to report to the Jail immediately and they impounded our car as well as hers! We cooled our heels in the office there long enough for me to take a nap on one of the desks and finally our agent told us we could collect our car and leave. What an experience! Thank goodness we had a wonderful bi-lingual agent since our Spanish at that time was truly abysmal.

Willie
Willie

Marlene

May 19, 2004, 5:28 PM

Post #14 of 47 (1610 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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Or you can practice your sprinting skills as mentioned above. A bus driver ran over a man on a bicycle here in Mazatlan not long ago, and he was off that bus and gone in a cloud of dust so fast. The driver would probably not have been held at fault north of the border since the cyclist (as often do motorcyles) passed the bus on the right, just as the driver was negotiating a right turn. Driving here has a variety of risks so best not to come in with rose colored glasses. Also as mentioned above and many times before, Napoleonic law says you are guilty until proven innocent, so your quoted thought "To me the really scary part is that someone can be completely innocent of any fault" .... needs reassessing for life here. The bus driver probably believed that he would have a tough time proving himself innocent and didn't relish the thought of time in prison, hence his decision to run.

talosian

May 19, 2004, 5:35 PM

Post #15 of 47 (1606 views)

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Re: [Marlene] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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Let's get real here. And how long does he think he can hide? A week, month, year, decade? And then he has another charge against him, unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. A no win for everyone it seems.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Marlene

May 19, 2004, 5:49 PM

Post #16 of 47 (1601 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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Okay so... who told you that there was an "unlawful flight to avoid prosecution" law here? I am being completely forthright and sharing knowledge that I have gained in the years I have lived here as is everyone else. We all know this is NOT a suburb of the United States, but rather a foreign country with it's own unique set of laws and ways of doing things, not unlike many other foreign countries.

Marlene

May 19, 2004, 5:56 PM

Post #17 of 47 (1601 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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Hi Willie, I didn't know you had a brush with the local law! You had to go to Colonia Juarez?? Just out of curiousity, how did you proceed with the repair bill? Were you reimbursed by your non-insured neighbor? Unfortunately too many drivers on our streets are not insured. Makes it tough in an accident, because if they can't afford insurance they surely can't afford car repairs either.

talosian

May 19, 2004, 6:02 PM

Post #18 of 47 (1596 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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Willie, a question.

Were you under arrest? Could you leave at any time? Were you told that you had done something wrong? What?

So what would have happened if this had happened and everyone was out to dinner and the car left at your house when this happened? Would the policia have waited for you or tried to find you?

I guess everyone there prays they don't get into an accident. It seems the best way is for people to not all the policia if there are no injuries and try to work it out between themselves.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Bubba

May 19, 2004, 8:06 PM

Post #19 of 47 (1572 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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It is standard practice here for drivers of commercial trucks and buses to flee when involved in an accident. The luckless victim remaining at the scene is in great danger of being jailed and may face criminal charges. It is imperative that all of you understand the absolute necessity of having legal aid as a stipulation in your insurance policy. You should make sure you have a cell phone with you at all times and the emergency 800 number of your insurance company handy on your person as well as in the car. If you have a good insurance company, their representative will come to your rescue. Also, having that legal aid provision in your policy is proof of financial responsibilty. Without it you must prove that you are financially responsible for undetermined damages and you may have to do so from your jail cell.

In Guadalajara this year alone, close to 100 pedestrians have been run over and killed by city buses, most because the drivers, who drive about the city with reckless abandon, were clearly at fault. Not even one Guadalajara bus driver has been charged this year. Not one has lost his job. They commonly run red lights at high speed and bully other drivers incessantly. If you are run over by one or are involved in an accident with one, God help you. Their union is so powerful that they consider themselves to be and, in fact, are above the law.

The water truck driver who serves my street in Ajijic, recently backed recklessly up the street (it is difficult, at times, to turn around) and ran over and killed an elderly lady who was crossing and too frail to get out of the way. She is dead. He ran away. He is back driving again. Same route. Same bad habits.

You are on your own here. Drive defensively and, whatever you do, never challenge a bus in Guadalajara or Puerto Vallarta. You will lose and you may lose your life.

talosian

May 19, 2004, 9:02 PM

Post #20 of 47 (1561 views)

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Re: [Bubba] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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OK Bubba and all, how do I find the "legal aid" provision in a policy? What does it say? If anyone reading this thread has a policy with the legal aid provision in it, maybe they could post it so we all can see what it covers and how it is worded.

I have to believe that with all that has been posted here, there must be several people with policies who could take them out and look them over for the provision.

Thanks.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

jennifer rose

May 19, 2004, 9:19 PM

Post #21 of 47 (1558 views)

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Re: [talosian] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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Talosian, you indicated to me that you were a lawyer admitted to practice in California. The "legal aid" provision would be apparent in the insurance contract.

talosian

May 19, 2004, 9:48 PM

Post #22 of 47 (1545 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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I read the online policy from one agent/provider and it didn't contain the provision. I am simply curious how it is worded to be able to form an opinion of just how well the insured is protected. As you know, in contracts, wording is everything and while you may be told and believe one thing, what the salesperson giveth the contract may taketh away (or never have to start).

OK?

Thanks.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Carol Schmidt

May 20, 2004, 8:45 AM

Post #23 of 47 (1499 views)

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Re: [Bubba] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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A friend was in an accident on a bus and the driver fled, though he was caught. The accident was clearly not his fault and he did do a lot of good helping injured passengers once he was caught, and my friend spoke up in his defense to the bus company when all the legal stuff was going on, and he was not charged.

She experienced the usual horrendous problems trying to get some sort of recompense from the bus company in helping to pay for her medical bills, and finally she was told that the rep for the bus company was coming to SMA to pay something toward damages to all those injured. My friend publicized the coming visit on every Spanish-language media she could contact, including doing an interview with our local Spanish-language radio station, and she put up flyers to try to contact the other 30 or so people who had been injured.

The day the bus company rep arrive, with an envelope full of pesos, figuring to give about $1000 US to about 20 people, my friend was the only one who showed up. She got her $1000 and the bus co. rep left happy. The law here and the insurance companies work in mysterious ways.

(Another friend who had her car stolen in SMA finally got a $6,600 payment from the insurance company for it, and it only took six months, dozens of meetings, hundreds of phone calls and FAXes and photocopies, and threats of lawsuits to the U.S. affiliate of the company.)

Carol Schmidt

sandykayak

May 20, 2004, 8:58 AM

Post #24 of 47 (1491 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] This one is hard to believe, even for Mexico

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I like the bit about "US affiliate"... could we come up with a list of insurance companies that have such an affiliation?
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

Rolly

May 20, 2004, 9:45 AM

Post #25 of 47 (1473 views)

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My bus story

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A couple of weeks ago I had an encounter of the jarring kind with a bus. About 7:AM on my way to the grocery store, I was waiting at an intersection when a bus rear ended me, clipping my right rear bumper and fender. Before I could get out of my truck, the bus pulled around me and sped away.

I though for a moment about giving chase, but decided against it for several reasons. The bus driver is personally responsible for any damage he does, and he would be unlikely to be able to pay for my repairs. The bus was loaded with folks on their way to work, so if I was able to catch and stop the bus, there would be a lot of people with problems at work. Even if I could get to the driver, my Spanish would not be up to the task of dealing with him or the police. The accident happened in Lerdo, but when the bus entered the intersection it was in the next town, Gomez Palacio – more problems. I intend to keep my truck until one of us dies, so the resale value is not important to me. I don’t view my truck as an extension of my persona, so I don’t really care if it has banged fenders, etc, so long as it runs well. So I went on the grocery store.

Later I went to my buddy’s welding shop where he and some friends performed a bit of magic on the twisted bumper and dented fender. Cost – a round of beer.

The bus did not break the tail light. I had already done that when I backed into a tree at the river where we went swimming. The tail gate had never worked right; it was very hard to open. Since the crash, it works just fine – easy to open. Having a tail gate that is easy to open is much more important to me than a twisted bumper. So, on balance, it was not such a bad thing.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

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