Forums > General > General Forum

jennifer rose

Dec 10, 2003, 9:09 PM

Post #1 of 12 (865 views)

Shortcut

Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post |

About five years ago on this board, an American teacher living in Mexico questioned whether she should salute the Mexican flag. The responses were interesting, but it's time to revisit the topic.

Do you think foreigners living in (or visiting) Mexico should salute the Mexican flag when it's presented in a ceremony? Should they sing Mexico's National Anthem?

tntex

Dec 11, 2003, 4:10 AM

Post #2 of 12 (842 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jennifer rose] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

That is a good question . I have never thought about it and do not know the answer, but would like to see what the proper thing to do is.
tntex

esperanza

Dec 11, 2003, 5:47 AM

Post #3 of 12 (835 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jennifer rose] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

There is probably a 'correct' answer to these questions in terms of international diplomatic practice. I only know what I do, which is correct for me today and is subject to change as I live longer.

When the himno nacional (national anthem) is played in public (for example, at the beginning of a parade or other event), I stop whatever I am doing~conversing, taking a photo, etc~and stand respectfully until it finishes. I sometimes sing it. The flag is usually displayed during the time the himno is being played and although I don't salute it, I don't disregard it either.

My opinion is that it is a show of disrespect to the country I live in to do otherwise.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Georgia

Dec 11, 2003, 6:18 AM

Post #4 of 12 (824 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jennifer rose] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

I agree with Esperanza that it is entirely appropriate to stand and show respect for the other country's flag and national anthem. I remember being somewhat offended when we had an exchange student from Sweden at our New York home and she did not stand or even acknowledge in any way that our national anthem was being played at an event. She remained seated and continued what she was doing.

Whenever an event is occurring that our foreign hosts treat with respect, whether it is the national anthem, a funeral passing by, a religious procession passing by, it is always in good taste to stop, stand and be respectful.

If one wished to participate, I see no harm in that either. I don't think most Mexicans would take offense, but some might, I suppose.

Marlene

Dec 11, 2003, 8:26 AM

Post #5 of 12 (804 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Georgia] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

While teaching in a private school here, I did participate in the weekly flag and anthem ceremony. It wasn't discussed with me by the administration, and since I was the only foreign teacher, I simply did what the other teachers were expected to do. I think it would have raised eyebrows if I hadn't. My fellow teachers did tell me that a student was exempted for religious reasons. I observed the student to be a small foreign child who always looked a little sad standing there while his young Mexican classmates enthusiastically participated in the ceremony. For me, being a part of it was an honor.

raferguson

Dec 11, 2003, 5:46 PM

Post #6 of 12 (757 views)

Shortcut

Re: [esperanza] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

I agree that standing and showing respect is appropriate. It would not be appropriate for a foreigner to salute. I would probably not sing the song, although I have not studied the words to the hymno national. I don't think it makes any difference whether you are in Mexico or Afganistan, it is just polite to stand and show respect. If you are a citizen of one country, it is kind of two-faced to swear alegiance to another country, so I would not want to go too far.

Of course, if you were a teacher, an employee of the Mexican government, you could reasonably be expected to participate in the ceremony, as kind of an informal condition of employment, and certainly I would not object in that situation. In that case, you are simply providing an example to the students, which is just another function of a teacher.

http://www.fergusonsculpture.com

mjr234

Dec 14, 2003, 3:29 PM

Post #7 of 12 (688 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jennifer rose] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

There are some wide variations in normal national response to the playing of the national anthem. In Canada, we would expect a Canadian to know the national anthem of Canada and to act with some decorum if and when it is played in public. However, we would not expect a citizen of another country to recognize it. Thus, you would have to go some be offended by the action or lack thereof of someone who had no idea it was the national anthem. In point of fact, as our anthem is sung part in French and part in English at most national events, and it is notoriously difficult to memorize in either language, we do not get offended when Canadians miss a word or words ---- in fact there is a lot of humming goes on admist the singing of our national anthem at any time.

The anthem of the USA must be the most recognized in the world. I would recognize it. If it were a public place and being played live [i.e. not at a taped gold medal cermeony at the Olympics] then I would anticipate doing something to acknowledge the playing: Removing my hat?, remaining silent, etc. However, I feel it is somewhat narrow-minded to think everyone, everywhere will recognize the anthem and know what is the appropriate response - according to US standards. There is no need to go looking for snubs, IMO, as enough are served to us without looking for them.

I must say I really enjoy the Mexican military ceremony for the lowering of the national flag at dusk. Even though I do not the words nor the music, or even if it is the national anthem, it is very moving. As a non-musical type, I can feel the enthusiasm and appreciate the emotive power of the buglers as they play: Unforgettable.

Michael in Ottawa

pat

Dec 14, 2003, 6:38 PM

Post #8 of 12 (665 views)

Shortcut

Re: [mjr234] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

"However, I feel it is somewhat narrow-minded to think everyone, everywhere will recognize the anthem and know what is the appropriate response - according to US standards."

I thought this thread was a discussion of the proper way to show respect for the Mexican flag. How did the standards of we narrow-minded Americans (oops, excuse me.... citizens of the US, I mean) get dragged into this?

mjr234

Dec 15, 2003, 4:42 AM

Post #9 of 12 (645 views)

Shortcut

Re: [pat] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

See above on the Swedish girl in NY. Maybe she did know it was the anthem, in which case she chose to be rude. Maybe she should be told what is apporpriate, so as to be able to knowingly chose her reaction and to judged accordingly. It appears to me we each try to imagine the appropriate response in Mexico, based on our own reaction in our own country.... what else can you do.... other than to ask what is appropriate for a foreigner to do in Mexico? When in Rome, do as the Romans would have you do. Michael in Ottawa

sandykayak

Dec 18, 2003, 12:43 PM

Post #10 of 12 (566 views)

Shortcut

Re: [jennifer rose] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

Oh, dear. I was born in England, raised in Venezuela, and attended the British elementary school and the American High School in Caracas.

It was mandatory for all school children to sing "Gloria Al Bravo Pueblo" and salute the Venezuelan flag.

We, of course, sang "God Save the Queen" and curtsied to everyone.

As a member of the US Brownies (Girl Scouts of America) from the age of 7 and thru til a Senior Scout and then a troop leader at 21, I sang the Star Spangled Banner and saluted the Stars and Stripes.

So, I've been singing the national anthems and saluting the flags of three countries since I was seven years old. It will be a pleasure to learn the Mexican anthem and salute their flag as well.

What exactly does saluting a flag mean?

Making the Pledge of Allegiance (which, I do in the US, of course) is definitely pledging. Isn't saluting merely a sign of respect and acknowledgement?

American Heritage includes: to honor formally and ceremonially; to make a gesture of greeting or respect...
Sandy Kramer
Miami, Fla & El Parque

pat

Dec 18, 2003, 4:37 PM

Post #11 of 12 (546 views)

Shortcut

Re: [sandykayak] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post | Private Reply

What exactly does saluting a flag mean?

Making the Pledge of Allegiance (which, I do in the US, of course) is definitely pledging. Isn't saluting merely a sign of respect and acknowledgement?

Hi Sandy. You are exactly right.

If I were present when my host country's National Anthem was played, I would stand quietly and respectfully, with both hands by my side. (hmmmmm......Sounds a lot like standing at attention, doesn't it?) I reserve the hand over the heart gesture for my own country's flag.

Pat Patterson

Uncle Donnie

Dec 22, 2003, 9:07 AM

Post #12 of 12 (497 views)

Shortcut

Re: [pat] Saluting the Mexican Flag

Can't Post |

This one is very interesting, showing a variety of attitudes.

After the 9/11 attacks several of us attended the grito ceremony in Chapala. When the official delegation; Municipal Mayor and his Deputies, first appeared to make general remarks of welcome each had an American flag affixed to his lapel. Condolences to those of us from the U.S. were offered by those officials and many of the celebrants in the crowd turned to speak to us and in many cases embrace us. I'll never forget the respect they showed us that evening, and the heartfelt responses. Even those who didn't approach sent us those small sad smiles of regret.

I have always saluted the Mexican Flag (I love that Roman Legionnaire cross-chest move), stood for the anthem, and offered any appropriate honors in respect to and for other national and cultural icons and ceremonies. As a VN vet I don't want to demean or even run the risk of dampening anyone's national pride or causing a public scene. This attitude does not extend to certain situations involving armed aggression against any country in which I'm living, nor to oppressive regimes anywhere in the world. This is a general, not a specific observation so don't start jumping
up and down.

All in all, I'd say it's a strictly personal decision. Do what you're comfortable with because I'm bettin' there's no law defining responsibility or attitude in this case.

Thanks for having the sensitivity to bring up the subject.

Shameless self-promotion:
http://www.headformexico.com