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HHERRINGTON

Dec 11, 2003, 6:19 AM

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SS checks to Mexico

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Check out the following URL which is an article in the Arizona Republic.

http://www.azcentral.com/...10mexbenefits10.html
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Life is too complicated to be expressed in one liners.

NEOhio

May 26, 2004, 9:34 PM

Post #2 of 14 (628 views)

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Re: [HHERRINGTON] SS checks to Mexico

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I found this of interest - haven't found anything else about it, however, still going to look further and think about it.

Bubba

May 27, 2004, 8:18 AM

Post #3 of 14 (595 views)

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Re: [awcaldwell] SS checks to Mexico

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I was a bit surprised that Mexican workers in the U.S., whether legal or illegal, were not eligible for full social security benefits if they paid into the system for the appropriate amount of time. I was told by the SS office at the U.S. Consulate in Guadalajara that even "wetbacks" (his word, not mine and, according to my Spanish teacher, not a pejorative term in Mexico) received benefits regardless of their residency status if they paid into the system. This remark had been in response to my inquiry as to benefit status for qualified foreign citizens not resident in the U.S who had paid into the system.

As for the fact that these constitute transfer payments out of the U.S. economy, so do SS payments to those of us who are expats and live full time down here. In fact, these transfer payments are a good thing. We know a retired Mexican national in Chiapas who gets full Mexican benefits that are the equivalent of US$150 a month which is not enough for him to live on so he must continue to work to supplement his meager pension. Mexican laborers and U.S. retirees living in Mexico will spend their relatively large pension payments in the Mexican economy which will, in turn, help that economy prosper and help stabilize relations among economically disparate North American societies.

One needs to look no further than the relatively prosperous Lake Chapala North Shore communities to see the positive effect that these transfer payments can have on local economies in Mexico with a sizable number of constituents receiving said payments.

Don

May 27, 2004, 10:23 AM

Post #4 of 14 (558 views)

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Re: [HHERRINGTON] SS checks to Mexico

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Mexicans who have gotten their U.S. Citizenship can have their full benefits sent to Mexico, without a penalty. You will find that many have their funds deposited into U.S. accounts and use ATM withdrawals to get their money as needed. I am sure there are some that are not U.S. Citizens and have returned to Mexico. They use a friend's or family member's address in the U.S. as their address to get around losing part of that income. Just as some "gringos" create phony addresses in the U.S. to register their cars, Mexicans can do the same, but for other purposes.

(This post was edited by Don on May 27, 2004, 10:24 AM)

gbatrucks

May 27, 2004, 10:36 AM

Post #5 of 14 (552 views)

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Re: [Bubba] SS checks to Mexico

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Just pray that in their wisdom congress doesn't try to tighten up on ex-pats as the fiscal noose tightens NOB. Remember a few years back when Ex-Sen. Phil Grahm (R-TX) talked about NOT paying SS benifits to legal resident-alians unless they became US Citizens? Ex-pats are a political minorioty, & congress will screw them every time if it will create a populist appeal to the majority & get them re-elected.

Why doesn't Medicare cover us if we live abroad? Obviously that would cost the treasury less than having us limp home for the triple by-pass. Has anyone heard anything new about that possibility?

Trucks
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."

Esteban

May 27, 2004, 11:46 AM

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Re: [gbatrucks] SS checks to Mexico

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I heard, through the grapevine, a story about a medicare pilot program in Guadalajara but it appears to be gone. I doubt, especially looking at the state of the economy in the US, that any Medicare will be available in Mexico for some time. The US government will do anything to cut back on Medicare expenses and the ex-pat community here is not a big voting block. It's much easier for the politicos to just say no than even look at whether it will cost less or more.

Bubba

May 27, 2004, 12:11 PM

Post #7 of 14 (530 views)

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Re: [Esteban] SS checks to Mexico

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Don's comments seem to imply that Mexican citizens who are not U.S. citizens pay a penalty for that fact. This doesn't make sense to me. As I stated earlier, the U.S. Consulate in Guadalajara was emphatic in stating that one's entitlement to full U.S. social security benefits was not tied in any way to U.S. citizenship or even a requirement that the person claiming said benefits worked in the U.S. legally. The counselor official with whom I spoke was quite clear on this issue.

To me it makes sense that anyone receiving SS benefits whether they live in Mexico or Albania, maintain a U.S. bank account for electronic transfers of SS benefit payments since that is the most efficient and safest way to get your money. If you open an account in most U.S. banks fed by recurring electronic transfers from an employee or the SS Administration, the account will be free of service charges and safe from long term currency exchange fluctuations. Who wants to have a SS check mailed through the corrupt and unreliable Mexican postal system? The fact that we live in Mexico, have no real property assets in the United States and that one of us is not a U.S. citizen or U.S. resident has been of no consequence in access to our full benefits. The SS officer at the Guadalajara Consulate indicated that this right is not compromised by the legal status of the worker/contributor as it should not be. To believe otherwise is to sanction official theft.

Don

May 27, 2004, 4:40 PM

Post #8 of 14 (485 views)

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Re: [Bubba] SS checks to Mexico

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Bubba:
The penalty I refer to affects survivors of non U.S. Citizens and also family of some U.S. Citizens. Example: A gentleman, non U.S. Citizen, in our town died last year. He worked in the U.S. many years. Had a daughter born in the U.S. The wife is now collecting survivor benefits here in Mexico. Even though she lived in the U.S. she never worked. She too is a non citizen. Her survivor benefit will cease if she is out of the U.S. for over 6 months. She must return to the U.S. before the 6 months is up and proved she stayed there for 1 full month. She has to keep doing this. I would call that a penalty. My brother in law, a Mexican and a U.S. Citizen collects SS benefits and lives in Mexico. His wife is now eligible for Spouse benefits. She has to go through the same routine listed above as she is not a U.S. Citizen. As you can see, there are penalties for not being a U.S. Citizen and having an address outside the U.S. I would consider that a loss of income due the expense of having to return to the U.S. for a month. How many can't do that and lose all benefits. Check out the Social Security website.

(This post was edited by Don on May 27, 2004, 4:46 PM)

PBGollaz

May 27, 2004, 8:36 PM

Post #9 of 14 (453 views)

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Re: [Bubba] SS checks to Mexico

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Bubba,

It's certainly true, as you were told, that entitlement to U.S. social security benefits is not tied to U.S. citizenship or to having worked in the U.S. legally. But, there's often a catch, right? Although there's no requirement to have worked legally in the U.S. there is a requirement to have worked there (even if illegally) AND to have contributed to a Social Security account. That's the big catch for many undocumented aliens.

Since they're in the U.S. illegally, they're always afraid of being caught and deported. So, they work for cash "under the table" (with no SS deductions), or they "borrow" someone else's SS number, or they use a false SS number. In none of those cases do they have an account balance with Social Security that they can prove belongs to them. So, if they're not part of the system, they can't receive its benefits.

Patrick
Zapopan, Jalisco, México

Papirex

May 27, 2004, 8:56 PM

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Re: [Don] SS checks to Mexico

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I was surprised to read in a post that some non-U.S. Citizens must return to The U.S. every six months to retain their eligibility for SS benefits. My mother in law is a Mexican Citizen and has been receiving SS survivors benefits for some 14 years now. Her late husband was a U.S. Citizen, and worked and lived most of his life in The U.S. She is not required to return to The U.S. to retain her benefits.

She has had many appointments over the years at The Social Security Administration office at The U.S. Embassy in Mexico City. The issue of her needing to ever return to The U.S. to retain her benefits has never been raised.

The biggest problems she has had concerned the aftermath of Social Security checks stolen from The Mexican mail system. That has happened about once every 3 or 4 years. That always requires several trips to The Social Security office to remedy. Explaining those problems would require a whole book.

Until very recently, Mexican Citizens receiving Social Security benefits had no choice in how their payments were received. The had to be mailed to them from The U.S. The California Commerce Bank accounts tied to a Mexican bank account are restricted to American Citizens, so that didn’t work for her.

After the U.S. Social Security Administration finally approved direct deposit of S.S. benefits to Mexican banks, she applied to have hers deposited to her Mexican bank account last November. They were not deposited by last February. The bank said they weren’t sent. The S.S. office at the Embassy said they should be there, if not they will all arrive “next Month.”

In March, she went up to Tacoma, Washington for a month to attend her granddaughters’ wedding. Her son lives in Tacoma, he was born in Texas and is an American Citizen by birth. He opened a joint account at his credit union with her, with two ATM cards. They then went to The Social Security Administration office there, I believe it is located in Seattle, to have her Social Security payments deposited there, instead of in her Mexican bank account. They told them at The Seattle S.S. office that the problem was that the S.S. office at the Embassy in Mexico City had not completed the papers to change her method of payment. No problem, she would get all her back payments the third week of “next month.”

This is “next month”, and still no deposits. My mother in law went to The S.S. office at the Embassy this week. They maintain that they had sent all the paperwork to the proper departments. They said they will double check and she should receive all her back payments in “two weeks.” At least that is some progress, even if they are still full of crap, at least their estimates are getting shorter.

In the meantime, my brother in law in Tacoma checked at the local Social security office about the problem. I was surprised that they would even talk to him about it, usually their policy is not to discuss or reveal anything about anyone’s Social Security account to a third party. Maybe the person he talked to remembered him, because they did give him some information. They verified that the problem was caused by the failure of the Mexico City Embassy to file all the necessary paperwork. They said they will follow through from Seattle, and she should get all her back payments within “two weeks.”

Well, there is real progress, two government offices agreeing on something. It may be empty promises, but at least they are both saying “two weeks.” It has now been six months since my mother in law has received one of her Social Security checks.
Fortunately her Social Security payments are not her only source of income, but it is an important supplement. This situation has put a major crimp in her life.

On a personal note, I have changed the financial institution that my own Social Security payments are deposited with twice, while still living in The U.S. It required a simple phone call each time, and was effective immediately.

Our own experience with them has shown that there are many incompetents, and ego-maniacs working at the U.S. Embassy, just as there are in any typical Mexican government agency, particularly in the visa section. They are known to most qualified Mexican citizens seeking a visa to visit the U.S.A. to be always difficult to work with, and sometimes impossible to please.

While she isn’t one of their constituents, I am going to write an Email to my U.S. Congressman, and both of my U.S. Senators about my mother in laws problem with the deposit of her Social Security payments. It may not do any good, but I know from past experience they will always reply via snail mail to any Emails they receive. Maybe something good will happen “next month.”

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

jennifer rose

May 27, 2004, 9:48 PM

Post #11 of 14 (443 views)

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Re: [Don] SS checks to Mexico

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The Social Security Administration website http://www.ssa.gov is a mother lode of information.

A few issues which haven’t been addressed in this thread:

1. Social Security benefits can be directed deposited to a beneficiary’s Mexican bank account. Beneficiaries are not limited to receiving their benefits by direct deposit to a U.S. bank or in the mail.

2. Those beneficiaries residing abroad who are under full retirement age are subject to the Foreign Work Test described at http://www.socialsecurity.gov/...your_ss.html#foreign:

A monthly benefit is withheld for each month in which a beneficiary younger than full retirement age works more than 45 hours outside the U.S. in employment or self-employment which is not subject to U.S. Social Security taxes. It does not matter how much was earned or how many hours were worked each day.
A person is considered to be working on any day he or she:
· actually works as an employee or self-employed person; or
· has an agreement to work even if he or she does not actually work because of sickness, vacation, etc.; or
· is the owner or part owner of a trade or business even if he or she does not actually work in the trade or business or receive any income from it.
Generally, if a retired worker's benefits are withheld because of his or her work, no benefits can be paid to any other people receiving benefits on his or her record for those months. However, the work of others receiving benefits on the worker's record affects only their own benefits.

The foreign work test can detrimentally impact those expatriates who intend to start receiving Social Security retirement at less than full retirement age while working part-time abroad.

Don

May 28, 2004, 11:40 AM

Post #12 of 14 (392 views)

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Re: [RexC] SS checks to Mexico

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Checkout this Social Security information:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/...al/your_ss.html#what

(This post was edited by Don on May 28, 2004, 11:43 AM)

Papirex

May 28, 2004, 1:15 PM

Post #13 of 14 (376 views)

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Re: [Don] SS checks to Mexico

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That is very interesting information Don. I had not been aware of the six month residency restriction to continue receiving SS benefits for a non U.S. citizen before. Since my mother in law is receiving survivors benefits, the only exception that she would be eligible for would be the one for five years of residence in The U.S.A.

I have never asked her how long she lived in The U.S. I do know that she and her husband lived for a time in Texas where their first child was born. It may have been for five years or more though, because she has never been required to return to The U.S. to continue receiving her benefits.

She did have one of the original green cards in the 1950s. Those were the ones that were actually green colored, so I know she did spend a few years living in The U.S.A. The Social Security website does not say whether the five years residency in The U.S. must be continuous, or in total. She is not here right now, when I see her again, I will ask her about it just to satisfy my own curiosity.

If it should ever be necessary for her to return to The U.S. every six months, it would not be too big a hardship for her. It would just give her an opportunity to visit her son in Tacoma more often.

My wife comes from a truly international family. Her family here in Mexico is huge. Her father was a Mexican American born in Texas, a U.S. citizen. She has many aunts, uncles, and cousins living in The U.S. Some are legal residents, some are naturalized U.S. citizens, and some of them were born In The U.S. and are citizens by birth, like her oldest brother.

She has two uncles and an aunt that are legal residents of Canada, I don’t know if any of them have achieved citizenship up there or not. We also have a niece that is attending university in Leer, Germany. She has a boy friend over there and says she loves Germany. Maybe she will end up living over there.

Our house is like the Tower of Babel at the holiday seasons. People are speaking Spanish, English, French, and Romanian (one uncle by marriage is from Romania) Etc., here. Maybe if our niece marries her German boyfriend we will be hearing German spoken in our house sometimes too.

Sorry if this drifted off subject a little, I get carried away sometimes.

Incidentally, my mother in law had four of her missing SS payments deposited today. SS payments are usually deposited on a Wednesday. Maybe they will catch up with the rest of them soon.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

(This post was edited by RexC on May 28, 2004, 1:24 PM)

Don

May 28, 2004, 6:38 PM

Post #14 of 14 (327 views)

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Re: [RexC] SS checks to Mexico

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I feel sure your mother in law qualifies as one that doesn't have to return to the U.S. every 6 months. There are exceptions to the rule and obviously one of them fits her. Our friend that has to return every 6 months also doesn't mind the trip. She gets to visit close family in Arizona and do some shopping.