Forums > General > General Forum

Rolly

Nov 5, 2010, 9:37 AM

Post #1 of 15 (3111 views)

Shortcut

Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

According to the tally kept by Reforma, the death toll from the drug war passed the 10,000 mark this week, reaching 10,035 killed since the start of the year.

According to Reforma’s report released on November 4, 2010:

- 45% of the registered deaths this year occurred in two states: Chihuahua registered 2,797 executions and Sinaloa 1,795.

- Following these two states are: Guerrero with 786, Durango with 700, and Tamaulipas with 700 drug related deaths.

- 52 soldiers and 637 police from different jurisdictions have been killed around the nation.

- 276 of the deceased were minors.

- 798 people were tortured prior to death and 326 were decapitated.

- Narco-messages were found in 674 of the total deaths.

This information taken from Borderland Beat.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

norteño

Nov 5, 2010, 11:48 AM

Post #2 of 15 (3082 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Rolly] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

>- 52 soldiers and 637 police from different jurisdictions have been killed around the nation.

This newspaper must be using very restrictive criteria for listing murders as drug war-related. I can think offhand of at least five murders of soldiers that have been reported in Jalisco alone this year and it is not considered a hotbed of cartel violence, and no day ever goes by that there are not reports of law enforcement officers killed somewhere in Mexico, at times as many as twenty in a single day.

Brian

Nov 5, 2010, 4:19 PM

Post #3 of 15 (3035 views)

Shortcut

Re: [norteño] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

Criminal statistics are not kept in Mexico as they are in the United States. For instance, within the past two years in San Miguel de Allende, two separate bodies which were killed execution style were discovered on the road to Los Rodriguez. After the first one, the chief of police was asked about narco activity in the area. Not only did he deny it's existence, but he also said that the deceased would not count against local homicide statistics. The reasoning was that he may have been murdered elsewhere and only dumped in San Miguel.

skier14

Nov 5, 2010, 6:49 PM

Post #4 of 15 (3003 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Brian] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

Another CAPO can be added to the list. Tony Tormenta, head of the Gulf Cartel was put down this afternoon my the mexican marines. I just caught the news and a web cam via you tube.

Reefhound

Nov 5, 2010, 7:35 PM

Post #5 of 15 (2991 views)

Shortcut

Re: [skier14] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

Yeah, he was just featured on a big billboard in Brownsville with a $5 million price on his head. Massive shootouts all over Matamoros today between zetas, cdg, feds, and military. 47 dead reported.

dongringo_catemaco

Nov 6, 2010, 9:16 PM

Post #6 of 15 (2868 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Reefhound] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

Sitting here in beautiful downtown Catemaco, we had a recent shootout were three were killed, and 110 died in a nearby town during the recent Veracruz flooding. That turned out to be 1 person shot in the leg, and 4 drowned. Those 47 killed in Matamoros will probably be reduced to equal numbers.

Rolly rolls statistics of 10 thousand +/- dead in the drug wars since the beginning of the year. That is a horrible number, especially to any Vietnam Vet who remembers a 16+ year war with only 58 thousand US dead plus a few hundred thousand "other" people.

Mexico has a national statistical agency, called INEGI http://www.inegi.org.mx/
which used to count murder victims in Mexico. I guess they lost track over the last few years. Nowadays they only report murder convictions.
Anyway, murders had been on a down trend from about 15 thousand per year in the late 1980's to about 10 thousand in the early 2000's. If you didn´t know it before, Mexico has always had one of the highest murder rates in the world, always greater than the US, excluding Vietnam of course.
http://catemaconews.blogspot.com/.../good-ol-mexico.html

Nowadays Mexican newspapers keep track of the number of killeds. Sort of like watching body count TV in the US in the 1960's. BUT NOONE mentions the total number of murder victims in Mexico. Should another 10 thousand be added to the "drug war" body count? Does anybody know? or care?

If they are included in the body count, then business is as usual in Mexico, and Mexico is just getting a lot of bad press like Miami did as the drug killing capital of the world in the 1980's. If not, then Mexico is just like it was 20 years ago, which makes sense, because very little in Mexico has been able to move into the 21st century.

Of course variations in geography come into play here. Most of the drug murders are in the US borders states, which are also the most economically advanced in Mexico, and had been considered a safe haven until a few years ago. Would the total statistics suggest that Mexican murders are just leveling off across the country?

Statistics provided by the Mexican government are about as reliable as its unemployment figures of 6%. Nut neither do I put faith in newspaper statistics that count what other newspapers say.

Did I ever tell you about the recent suicide in the local area who shot himself in the head three times?
What this country needs is a COUNT Dracula.
Visit Catemaco News

(This post was edited by dongringo_catemaco on Nov 6, 2010, 9:22 PM)

Reefhound

Nov 6, 2010, 9:57 PM

Post #7 of 15 (2862 views)

Shortcut

Re: [dongringo_catemaco] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

I don't think anyone is suggesting the stats are infallibly accurate or even approximate but what is the alternative? I posted 47 dead because that was what some reported. I suspect the number is lower too or else we would have seen lots of photos of bodies in the streets.

richmx2

Nov 7, 2010, 11:41 AM

Post #8 of 15 (2792 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Reefhound] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

The late "Tony Tormenta" was 47... years old. There was also either a marine operation against various gangsters around Matamoros or various inter-gang mayhem resulting from the alleged gang leader's demise. There could have been 47 deaths overall, but then again, it may just have been the Brownsville Herald made a mistake... or used an "anonymous source" without confirmation. It's an old reporter maxim that if your mom say's she loves you, you still need confirmation from another source.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

chinagringo

Nov 7, 2010, 12:01 PM

Post #9 of 15 (2781 views)

Shortcut

Re: [richmx2] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

With the disparity throughout various news reports on this incident on the numbers killed, we will probably never know the true final count. If the report that there were 600 or so military involved in this operation have any basis in fact, the Mexican Government would be inclined to publicize 47 killed if they were all cartel members. On the other hand, if there were high numbers of innocent citizens, the tendency seemingly would be to minimize those numbers. From the video clips I have seen, there were a tremendous number of rounds being discharged as evidenced in the audio portions.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

norteño

Nov 7, 2010, 9:03 PM

Post #10 of 15 (2717 views)

Shortcut

Re: [richmx2] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

In Reply To

And what would be the source of that confirmation, in a city where the local papers have not even mentioned the death of this cartel boss? One paper even managed to report its own reporter being killed in a crossfire without a word about who the participants other than the military were.

Rolly

Nov 7, 2010, 9:47 PM

Post #11 of 15 (2703 views)

Shortcut

Re: [norteño] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

Google Tony Tormenta, and you'll find plenty of confirmation.
The fact that the local papers are afraid to report certain things does not mean that other media will not report.

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook

Reefhound

Nov 7, 2010, 10:02 PM

Post #12 of 15 (2697 views)

Shortcut

Re: [norteño] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

The Reynosa papers ran it on the front page in big bold headlines.

As far as whether the 47 dead in Matamoros is an accurate number or not, I don't know but The Brownsville Herald is saying the toll is rising. While the official count is 10, their sources say it is at least 55 and with more shootings Saturday there and in Valle Hermosa the weekend toll is over 100.

dongringo_catemaco

Nov 8, 2010, 7:58 AM

Post #13 of 15 (2659 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Rolly] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

AHA. I just got smarter.
There were 31546 murders in Mexico in 2009, including all categories. That was a few thousand more than the generally decreasing number of murders since 2002, but the same as in 2001 and considerably lower than in the previous years.
The 31546 represent 29.3 victims per 100 thousand.
Figures are from:
http://www.icesi.org.mx/...icidio_1997_2009.pdf

The US reported 15241 murders in 2009, a rate of 5 per 100 thousand.
http://www2.fbi.gov/...9/data/table_01.html
A direct comparison may be too low, because the way both countries deal with negligent manslaughter.

The quoted 10 thousand plus for drug related murders is an astounding statistics when related to the whole, and I suspect they include a few thousand that should belong in other categories. Reforma, which is one of the best newspapers in Mexico does have its own agenda. Its owner ran his family out of Mexico to the US in 2008, presumably because of narco threats.

Mexican newspapers just strted picking up on the US consuls in Matamoros warning that "Due to continuing violence in the Matamoros metropolitan area and Consular District, the Consulate General's security office has restricted personal travel outside of immediate residential areas between the hours of midnight and 6:00 A.M. for American personnel at the Consulate and their families." It's getting more difficult everyday to recommend crossing the Mexican border, unless flying.

The numbers game of the dead in Matamoros is still in full swing
"Friday’s exact toll is unknown, but well-placed sources put the number of dead at 55 or more. Official statements from the Mexican government acknowledged 10 deaths, while one law enforcement officer, speaking on condition that his name not be used, told The Brownsville Herald that the two-day toll “easily” passed 100.
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/...ights-continued.html
Visit Catemaco News

Altahabana

Nov 8, 2010, 11:44 AM

Post #14 of 15 (2615 views)

Shortcut

Re: [dongringo_catemaco] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

Some sound bites from Friday in Matamoros.

http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related

RickS

Nov 8, 2010, 8:37 PM

Post #15 of 15 (2549 views)

Shortcut

Re: [Altahabana] Report on 2010 drug war deaths

Can't Post | Private Reply

Amazing footage..... but I don't know but what the 'camera man' had a death-wish.