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geewiz

Nov 15, 2012, 7:35 AM

Post #1 of 77 (6614 views)

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Overstaying tourist visa

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For years we have come to Mexico for the whole winter with a 180 day visa. This year we would like to fly back a couple of weeks beyond our standard 6 months. Does anyone have personal experience or real data of the consequences of overstaying 180 days?
Thanks.



Axixic


Nov 15, 2012, 8:00 AM

Post #2 of 77 (6600 views)

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Re: [geewiz] Overstaying tourist visa

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As long as you don't get into any trouble who will know you overstayed it? All they can do is kick you out of the country and you are leaving anyway.


chicois8

Nov 15, 2012, 8:29 AM

Post #3 of 77 (6589 views)

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Re: [geewiz] Overstaying tourist visa

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It used to be when flying you will have to show your FMM to a customs agent and the FMM is usually collected by the airline ticket agent, if your FMM is past due or "lost" you will have to pay about $45.00 USD for a replacement before you can board the plane...
Rincon de Guayabitos,Nayarit
San Mateo, California


chinagringo


Nov 15, 2012, 8:35 AM

Post #4 of 77 (6585 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Overstaying tourist visa

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Here you have been obsessing about Mexico changing the rules/regs but are now advocating breaking the laws. Did you include such in all of your emails to the press, etc?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



morgaine7


Nov 15, 2012, 8:42 AM

Post #5 of 77 (6580 views)

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Re: [geewiz] Overstaying tourist visa

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You should probably ask people who fly out of whatever airport you'll be using. At La Paz and Los Cabos airports, immigration status must be sorted out before the airline will issue a boarding pass.

Kate


Yacatecuhtli


Nov 15, 2012, 8:48 AM

Post #6 of 77 (6577 views)

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Re: [geewiz] Overstaying tourist visa

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Geewiz have you thought about contacting INM to have it extended ?


! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !


Rolly


Nov 15, 2012, 8:56 AM

Post #7 of 77 (6571 views)

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Re: [Yacatecuhtli] Overstaying tourist visa

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An FMM cannot be extend. There is an exception if you cannot travel because of a health issue such as being in the hospital,

Rolly Pirate


La Isla


Nov 15, 2012, 10:28 AM

Post #8 of 77 (6553 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Overstaying tourist visa

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Back when FMMs were FMTs, I had a couple of them extended a few days by going to INM and asking for extensions. MY reason was I wanted to stay a few days longer, no health issues were involved.


Axixic


Nov 15, 2012, 10:35 AM

Post #9 of 77 (6550 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Overstaying tourist visa

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You don't live here and you are not faced with the problems the new rules are causing, yet you pop up and criticize and try to pick fights. Why don't you go uncover what makes you so unhappy and work on that instead of trying to fight with people on a web board?

I doubt people overstaying an FMM for a couple of days will face any problems and it is hardly a major law to violate.


Yacatecuhtli


Nov 15, 2012, 10:48 AM

Post #10 of 77 (6545 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Overstaying tourist visa

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Yes I knew people that had 180 permits extended as well, that is why I mentioned it but I do not remember the details (when, what where how) , but I do know that a hospital visit was not involved.....

Perhaps there is no harm in asking, but that's up to the OP.........


! Al pan, pan y al vino, vino !


geewiz

Nov 15, 2012, 11:30 AM

Post #11 of 77 (6537 views)

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Re: [geewiz] Overstaying tourist visa

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Thanks for the input.
It would simplify our life this winter if we didn't have to go through the "FM3" application.
I understand we can also go to a nearby border (Belize - 3 hours), exit, and re-enter with another 180 days.


YucaLandia


Nov 15, 2012, 3:58 PM

Post #12 of 77 (6499 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Overstaying tourist visa

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In a twist of the Golden Rule, (do unto others, what you would want done to you): Is intentionally breaking Mexican laws, any different from similarly breaking US and Canadian laws? Do we really want illegal aliens, regardless of which side of the border you live?

Maybe, if the OP thinks it is a good thing for illegal aliens to ignore US/Canadian laws, then it would be consistent to plan to intentionally ignore Mexican law?

A rational consequence of advocating these positions is that the Mexican Government will begin cracking down on cheaters, and they will put even more stringent requirements in place, and harsher penalties - which is what has reportedly happened in the new INM immigration rules.

INM officials are reported to have said that there has been too much past cheating by expats living in Mexico on work and $$ issues, so, they "had to raise the Residente Temporal income limit" by a large amount on all expats, to try to counter the effects of the cheaters. Which is a way of saying the rest of us often ultimately pay for the current indiscretions of a few people.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


cbviajero

Nov 15, 2012, 5:19 PM

Post #13 of 77 (6477 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Overstaying tourist visa

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In Reply To
I

INM officials are reported to have said that there has been too much past cheating by expats living in Mexico on work and $$ issues, so, they "had to raise the Residente Temporal income limit" by a large amount on all expats, to try to counter the effects of the cheaters. Which is a way of saying the rest of us often ultimately pay for the current indiscretions of a few people.

I find that difficult to believe.


chinagringo


Nov 15, 2012, 5:24 PM

Post #14 of 77 (6475 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Overstaying tourist visa

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Steve:

Why is it necessary to attempt to rationalize by comparing with the breaking of US or Canadian laws? This is strictly a Mexico and its relationship with foreigners issue! Now I won't say that I haven't considered that there may be some retaliation built into the new rules either for the way Mexican citizens are treated NOB or more likely for the abuses to the system with foreigners throwing money around to get their way. I don't know if you remember or not when about a year or two back, the Mexican Government announced that the largest group of illegals in Mexico were from the United States?

Through many years of following this and numerous other forums, I have so often read way too many rationalizations and suggestions that it is OK to break, bend or otherwise manipulate the rules, regs and laws of Mexico. When I see people recommending such behavior, I have to ask myself: "would they be doing the same in their home country?"
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



morgaine7


Nov 15, 2012, 5:26 PM

Post #15 of 77 (6474 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Overstaying tourist visa

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Quote
INM officials are reported to have said that there has been too much past cheating by expats living in Mexico on work and $$ issues, so, they "had to raise the Residente Temporal income limit" by a large amount on all expats, to try to counter the effects of the cheaters.

That is extremely disturbing, particularly if North Americans are said to be among the "cheaters".

Kate


YucaLandia


Nov 15, 2012, 6:13 PM

Post #16 of 77 (6459 views)

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Re: [morgaine7] Overstaying tourist visa

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The first hand report came in writing to us, from an old-hand expat getting their new INM permit today, and yes, the INM official specifically called out Canadians and Americans as the cheaters.

And since the rest of us often do pay the price for the mal-actions of other expats and visitors from NOB, then it seems reasonable to say that we would like to be treated the way that the people considering breaking the rules would like to be treated back home. I'm not grumpy or upset over these things, just realistic.

It's better to flick a problem on the nose, while it is still small, than try to later get the whole camel out of our community tent.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com


mcm

Nov 16, 2012, 1:07 PM

Post #17 of 77 (6387 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Overstaying tourist visa

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In Reply To
The first hand report came in writing to us, from an old-hand expat getting their new INM permit today, and yes, the INM official specifically called out Canadians and Americans as the cheaters.

Let's see: a ''first hand report'' told to the poster by someone who was told something by an INM official. Sounds like third hand to me.
Really, something told to someone in one office might or might not have anything to do with the rationale for a major change in immigrations rules.


bronco

Nov 16, 2012, 3:27 PM

Post #18 of 77 (6366 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Overstaying tourist visa

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agree 100%. cheenagringo dosnt live here, but has opinions about everything under the sun. he should restrict his posts to "costco". i doute most expats w/fm3s are cheaters, proberly very few. i fail to see how a 6 month visa helps mexico. they can get $3000 pesos per person for a renewal (thats 5 yrs 15,000 plus pesos), the persons travel money will be spent here. there is something "else" going on, dont believe the govts story. cheenagringo should stay out of this.

(This post was edited by bronco on Nov 16, 2012, 4:40 PM)


Axixic


Nov 16, 2012, 3:40 PM

Post #19 of 77 (6364 views)

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Re: [mcm] Overstaying tourist visa

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I think it is almost impossible for many foreigners to be cheating. We stand out. It's not we are easy to hide. Mexico has a right and should care if someone is here illegally and costing Mexico money but that is also impossible in Mexico. What services can an illegal receive from Mexico like an illegal can receive in the U.S.?

An illegal in the U.S. can check into a hospital, stay 6 months, leave without paying a dime and not get turned in. That is not possible in Mexico.

So if a Northerner is here illegally that person is not a burden on Mexico and must have some means of support.

Perhaps Mexicans are complaining about illegals coming over the Southern border not the Northern border.

The new rules were not thought through. I doubt the rules are meant to punish. They are just ignorant of who we are and our resources.


chinagringo


Nov 16, 2012, 4:02 PM

Post #20 of 77 (6357 views)

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Re: [bronco] Overstaying tourist visa

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Well I guess it is time for me to hang my head in shame? After all the opinions voiced by two certainly trumps fact!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



bronco

Nov 16, 2012, 5:00 PM

Post #21 of 77 (6343 views)

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Re: [Axixic] Overstaying tourist visa

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yes, an illegal mexican get free hospital care in the us & then some........! as for the new rules applying to migrant workers from panama, thats absurd. they never had the old minimal requirements. people come here in a pickup truck are looking for some construction work while they pass through, then make their way to the US border. it is ludaris to say that raising monthly income from $1200 to $1900 relates to central america. as for "cheating"??? cheating on WHAT??? you show a bank statement &/or income. you pay TAXES! (fees) you are not a guest, you are a customer. as for "working under the table", what do they mean? teaching a yoga class? people will charge for things if they choose too, even if they make $700usd more per month. so that exuse dosnt fly. immigration was making it "easier" (for a while), even no proof except after 4 yrs. why the turn-a round? mexico is the last country on earth to do a moral sermon. & cheenringo, what makes you so self rightious? tell us old wise one, mr. funky on the road.

(This post was edited by bronco on Nov 16, 2012, 5:06 PM)


chinagringo


Nov 16, 2012, 5:29 PM

Post #22 of 77 (6334 views)

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Re: [bronco] Overstaying tourist visa

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Quality of the compsition speaks for itself and not even worth the effort to comment. Your time might be better spent earning a GED?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM



Axixic


Nov 17, 2012, 4:48 AM

Post #23 of 77 (6301 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Overstaying tourist visa

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Not everyone on this board speaks and writes Native English.

Mark Twain had terrible writing skills, hated punctuation, had run on sentences, ignored most rules of writing and a proof reader was needed to correct his mistakes but he had brilliant ideas.

Too bad you can't ever contribute anything positive.


Axixic


Nov 17, 2012, 4:50 AM

Post #24 of 77 (6300 views)

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Re: [bronco] Overstaying tourist visa

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An article about U.S. and Canadian "illegals" in Mexico:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...adio-and-tv-17098719


(This post was edited by Rolly on Nov 17, 2012, 6:42 AM)


YucaLandia


Nov 17, 2012, 7:01 AM

Post #25 of 77 (6284 views)

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Re: [bronco] Overstaying tourist visa

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In Reply To
agree 100%. ... i doute most expats w/fm3s are cheaters, proberly very few. i fail to see how a 6 month visa helps mexico. they can get $3000 pesos per person for a renewal (thats 5 yrs 15,000 plus pesos), the persons travel money will be spent here. there is something "else" going on, dont believe the govts story. cheenagringo should stay out of this.


I did not say that most expat FM3 holders are cheaters, I actually said that the actions of a few gringos often cause problems later for the rest of us. Consider: If you live around popular gringo areas, and know FM3 snowbirds who own homes, (especially in beach areas), it's common to hear from them that they rent their homes to other gringos while they are back NOB. In my limited 27 years of visiting and living in Yucatan, I've found stories from snow-bird gringos talking about their remodeled homes and rental income is very common.

If you ask these gringos how difficult it is to report that income to Hacienda, many reply that they have no problem with that: they simply do not report the rental income. I know at least 15 expat couples who rent their homes part-time, and do not report the income and do not pay taxes.

Consider expats who live in Mexico, either full or part-time. How many of them have cleaning ladies, gardeners, painters, mozos, et al?

Will the critics and doubters please tell us their honest estimates of how many (what %) of expats report their pay to household help to the Mex. Gob.? How many expats hire construction workers to do painting etc, tell them how to do the job, tell when they should show up for work, and give instructions to the painters et al during the job? All of these expats owe taxes to the Mex. Gob. on the $$ paid to workers that they direct on how to do the job and what aspect of the job to do next. How many of these expats pay the annual payments to the Mexican worker/social security dept. for all these workers? I would guess that less than 50% of expats pay to provide health care and (small) retirement benefits for their household help, painters, mozos et al? I know at least 20 expat couples who do not pay their taxes on this stuff.

How many expats personally do small jobs, little projects, or other work like repairing appliances or computers, sell arts and crafts, bake specialty breads, etc., and take cash payments without reporting them to el Gob.? I personally know at least 20 expats who do this.

The non-payment of taxes on rental income, the non-payment of taxes for payments to household or garden help and construction workers, and the non-payment of taxes on their personal miscellaneous income all adds up to significant total $$$ of cheating across all of Mexico.

Since these expats talk openly about their rentals, who is good household help, who paints well, or their latest arts and crafts or project, at regular gringo gatherings in restaurants, parties that include Mexican friends, and talk regularly with their Mexican neighbors, then Mexicans who hang out with expats, clearly know that many expats do not pay all their taxes.

Moving back to the issues of intentionally breaking rules, like planning to overstay a tourist permit:
All of these types of regular tax-dodging by expats makes it reasonable to expect that INM officials realize that many expats are not paying the taxes they owe, especially in areas popular with gringos.

I have not been privy to INM jefe meetings in DF on this issue, but having lived-with and worked-with govt. regulatory officials in the US for 4 decades, I'd say that this type of reasoning by Govt. jefes is common on both sides of the border.

This all makes the report believable that tax cheating by Canadians and Americans was one cause for INM to raise the income requirements for INM residency cards. Taken as a whole, these things also point to the benefits of encouraging tourists, visitors, snowbirds, and expats living here to all follow Mexico's laws and rules - since the rest of us do sometimes pay the consequences for the bad behaviors of the few.

I'm not scolding, I just don't like being gigged for something that other people did.

This stuff is pure self-interest. I just don't like it when a few people think it is OK to pee in the community pool, and I think it is worth taking some flack for asking people:
Please don't pee in our pool.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.com
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