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DavidMcL


Jan 9, 2009, 11:15 AM

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On the decline of civility

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I am bringing over a posting made on the Foro de Camagüeyanos por el Mundo which I believe is good starting point for a discussion here on MXC.
Over my time here in Mexico - only 13 years, I still consider myself a Novice - I and my friends have noticed a distinct decline in the fabric of common civility and courtesy that allows society to function healthfully. While Mexican society appears to show less deterioration than the piece below describes, there is a definite lessening of common social behaviour among the English speaking population here in this part of Mexico. People are more impatient, ruder, less forgiving and less open than 10 years ago. I have found the same to be true in the US and Canada - at least in the parts I have visited in the last while.
My question is: have you noticed the same in your parts of Mexico and to what do you attribute this increasing callousness? Or is it isolation from one another?

The Posting that I am pasting below (with permission) is written in the context of Great Britain, but I see a distinct parallel to here in Mexico.

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Puesto por PETER RABBIT en Enero 01, 2009 | 10:46:16

Two years ago I was travelling by train from London to Edinburgh to spend Christmas with my family. All the seats were taken, so I had to stand in the aisle. I wasn't the only one. Standing a few feet away from me was an elderly man who looked familiar. The sergeant-major posture, the aquiline nose, the forbidding brow of an Easter Island monolith: Jack Charlton.

I was surprised. Not because I'd found myself sharing a standard-class train carriage with a much-loved former footballer, but because no one offered him a seat. A lot of the seats in the carriage were occupied by young men wearing football tops. Clearly, they liked football – and yet, just as clearly, they didn't like football enough to give up their seat to a man who had once helped their country to win the World Cup. Charlton, who was then aged 71, stayed on the train until it reached Newcastle. The journey took around three hours. He spent every minute on his feet, completing a crossword puzzle in a newspaper he had no surface to rest on.

I was surprised at the time. I don't think that I would be now. Because in 2008, Britain as a nation became ruder than ever. And I'm not even talking about the kind of rudeness that prompted Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand to leave chortlingly obscene messages on the answering machine of a blameless actor. I'm talking about bad manners.

More and more last year, it seemed that many of us thought it our right to offend or inconvenience others. We considered consideration beneath us. Today, as we decide on our New Year's resolutions for 2009, being more polite would make an excellent choice.

We know that Britain has got ruder because all the signs are there – literally. In overground railway stations there are now notices begging passengers not to assault train staff. In stations on the London Underground there are similar ones pleading with passengers to let others off the train first, not to push each other, not to use seats for their bags. It's bewildering that we should need to be told these things, yet evidently we do. What's next, "Please don't steal", "Please try not to kill each other"?

The latest technology has also brought us innumerable new opportunities to be rude – and look how often we take them. The mobile phone, for instance. In 2008, it became an everyday occurrence to spend a bus or train journey inwardly groaning as some halfwit of a fellow passenger broadcast music through the tinny loudspeakers of their mobile. It was also common to see a customer at a checkout in a shop, babbling on their mobile while an assistant served them.

Then there's the internet. The internet is in many ways informative and entertaining, a revolutionary news resource. But as a means of communication it has become a mouthpiece not only for the decent majority but for the malicious minority.

Go to YouTube and search for a video featuring your favourite singer. Below it, read the comments posted by other visitors to the site. Among them there's almost certain to be an eruption of insults based on the singer's character, intelligence, gender, sexuality, nationality or religion. Other visitors, more often than not, will have leapt to the singer's defence – usually by posting messages insulting the original visitor's character, intelligence, gender, sexuality, nationality or religion. On the internet, people now feel at liberty to taunt others in a way they'd never dare do in person – or so you'd hope, anyway.

And while many of the latest electronic means of communication were created to bring us closer together, they are also cutting us off from each other. If you're reading your emails on an iPhone while walking down the street – an increasingly widespread habit last year – you may be keeping up with friends and colleagues, but you're oblivious to pedestrians around you.

However, these new means of communication have succeeded in achieving one thing: they have given us the impression that we are entitled to get whatever we want, as quickly as we want it. Listen to music, check your emails, make some telephone calls – whenever and wherever you like. Being spoilt in this way means that, when we find ourselves experiencing the least inconvenience, we feel affronted, as if our rights were being trampled on.

A long queue at the cash machine, being kept on hold when telephoning the bank, waiting more than 10 seconds to cross a busy road – it's almost a reflex, these days, to take such trifles personally. A phenomenon of the Nineties was road rage. Today, I'm sure that more and more of us feel pavement rage. There are too many people and they're in our way.

More than a million members of Facebook have joined a group on the website, called "I Secretly Want to Punch Slow Walking People in the Back of the Head". Getting angry, in this irrational and impotent manner, only makes us ruder. Either we barge other pedestrians out of our path or we snap, "Excuse me" in a tone more appropriate to a curse.

Perhaps the biggest problem is that rudeness is, in some quarters, no longer something to be ashamed of; it's applauded. This is an attitude fed by reality television. We see it in every series of The Apprentice and Big Brother. Again and again, contestants who have said something tactless or insulting will protest that they're merely being "honest", while contestants who politely try to conceal their dislike of others are dismissed as "two-faced".

Last year, it was announced that lessons in good manners were to be introduced to schools. As long as teachers drop the waffle (the classes are to promote "emotional and social intelligence", apparently), this sounds a useful idea. Well, if you overlook the inevitable flaw: the pupils most likely to pay attention to such lessons are the ones who already have good manners. The ones with bad manners, naturally enough, will ignore them.

But how can we expect the adult world to become any more polite in 2009 – as the recession's grip tightens, businesses collapse and jobs and houses are lost? If we were irascibly inconsiderate in the boom years, goodness knows how we'll treat each other in the lean years.

Let's try to look at it in a more positive way. The less that we have, maybe the more we'll realise the importance of manners, of thoughtfulness, of common decency. In a time of pessimism, that would be one thing to hope for. As life gets crueller, perhaps we'll get kinder.

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Original Posting source:
http://www.camagueyanos.com/.../mensajes/84917.html
David McL
WebJefe

(This post was edited by DavidMcL on Jan 9, 2009, 11:16 AM)



Oscar2

Jan 9, 2009, 2:36 PM

Post #2 of 14 (2016 views)

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Re: [DavidMcL] On the decline of civility

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Excellent reminder David. It’s a reminder of consciousness progressively dwindling away with each item highlighted in the article and more. These are signposts pointing toward, in my view, to an individual and collective false sense of self, inflated (as the article points out) by glorifying human dysfunction.

Instant replays and mass media communication, just to name a couple, are psychologically shrinking the world for all to see the commonality of foibles, inconsistencies, indecency’s and anything else sensational that sells on the airways. Desensitizing is sheik, in vogue while being nice, yes, is now considered unreal and yes, even two faced.

It is very, very sad that a false sense of self in being forced, yes compelled by ego’s that have become loose cannon’s spreading an epidemic which started way back when (?) thinking (thought) your neighbor was no longer fit to breath the same air you breath because he sees and lives life differently than you do.

Of coarse, this is just a synopsis of what is going on but the only hope I see, again, in my view, is using the media, (as if this could ever be cost effective or possible) too promote and compel collective conscious awareness, much like, or akin to ongoing adds making smoking not only a public nuisance but a killer. This kind of drumbeat, subliminal public messaging has proven to work itself to the core of who we are and what we can be.

Deeper, conscious awareness of our egos can be a starting point which can reset our identity to a more forgiving, kinder sense of self....


mskitty


Jan 9, 2009, 3:36 PM

Post #3 of 14 (2003 views)

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Re: [DavidMcL] On the decline of civility

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I can't speak for Mexico, but this trend is something I've definitely noticed up here in the USA. Once or twice, I've outright asked a college student to give me and my groceries his seat [seats clearly marked as priority for seniors or disabled]. I figure somebody has to teach them some manners. :) I only use the age card when I've been grocery shopping and have more than I can comfortably hold for that long -- and I often give up my seat for someone who is more elderly than I, or disabled.

Rudeness is everywhere, and it's no wonder, since we are bombarded with rudeness that's treated as humor and entertainment on TV and other media, as already noted. Sure wasn't the way I was raised.

However, I think this is a common complaint of every 'older' generation against the current younger generation. I've seen writings by either Plato or another of his ilk and age, making the same basic complaints about the youth of his time.

I have to wonder -- with humor -- why the person who wrote that article didn't give the gentleman in question his or her own seat, rather than making him stand for 3 hours.

Kitty


(This post was edited by mskitty on Jan 9, 2009, 3:37 PM)


Ed and Fran

Jan 9, 2009, 5:40 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1978 views)

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Re: [mskitty] On the decline of civility

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I have to wonder -- with humor -- why the person who wrote that article didn't give the gentleman in question his or her own seat, rather than making him stand for 3 hours.


Second line of the article. He was standing also.


mskitty


Jan 9, 2009, 5:43 PM

Post #5 of 14 (1975 views)

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Re: [Ed and Fran] On the decline of civility

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Okay -- my face is red. That's what I get for scanning something quickly after a long day dealing with year-end accounting issues.


(This post was edited by mskitty on Jan 9, 2009, 6:52 PM)


DavidMcL


Jan 9, 2009, 6:18 PM

Post #6 of 14 (1964 views)

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Re: [mskitty] On the decline of civility

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Perfectly understandable . . :)
David McL
WebJefe


kathleengam

Jan 12, 2009, 12:42 PM

Post #7 of 14 (1839 views)

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Re: [DavidMcL] On the decline of civility

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I've lived in Qro. for about 14 years. I can honestly say I haven't noticed this here.


thriftqueen

Jan 13, 2009, 1:53 PM

Post #8 of 14 (1772 views)

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Re: [kathleengam] On the decline of civility

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Yes, it seems that civility is on the decline, however as someone pointed out rudeness was around centuries ago. Surely, when I'm in a snit because someone has been rude along comes someone who is pleasant and accommodating. I'm always impressed by a young person who holds open the door as I approach or says excuse me. (I'm in the states right now). What I do hate is when I am looked through because of age. I try to smile mucho and find that sometimes opens the door for civility.

I agree with the writer on the cell phone usage. I am noticing more and more signs (usually ignored) asking folks to turn off their cell phones before entering a building, etc. I've actually had a clerk hanging on to the phone between her shoulder and ear while waiting on me, the customer!! I, usually come back with a hell o o o o just to get her attention. That does not cause a bit of embarrassment for the offender.

It's hard to judge civility in Mexico since I find the cultures are so different. Things I consider rude are sometimes just a difference of culture.


esperanza

Jan 13, 2009, 3:31 PM

Post #9 of 14 (1756 views)

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Re: [thriftqueen] On the decline of civility

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A few months ago, someone sent me one of those forwarded emails--this time with funny signs. The best of the lot was the sign outside a church. It read, "You may hear God calling during our services, but it won't be on your cell phone. Please turn it off as you enter."




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donJohn40

Jan 13, 2009, 6:30 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1724 views)

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Re: [DavidMcL] On the decline of civility

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I hope this message isn’t a flagrant violation of forum rules, because the incident I am relating happened in Costa Rica, rather than Mexico. If I don’t see the message posted, I will realize I am off-base, and I’ll understand.

Anyway . . . A few years ago I was on a rickety old bus on a journey from San José to Cahuita -- a small Jamaican village on the Caribbean coast. The majority of the passengers were black, who speak “Pidgin English” as a first language, Spanish as their second dialect.

Now, Costa Rican buses routinely post signs declaring that: “disabled passengers, pregnant women, elderly women and elderly men have priority of seating.” At a stop about a half-hour from our destination, two elderly black passengers climbed aboard. A white-haired man climbed in first, and next, a white-haired woman. As the man approached, I started to get up to let one of them have my seat.

But the woman protested. “No! I be old woman, so dat seat, he belong to me!”

The spunky old man shouted back, “No! I be older dan you. Keep you big mouf shut!”

Embarrassed, I didn’t know what to do. The passenger next to me in the seat pulled me back, saying, “You don give seat to either of dem! Dey no got respect.”

The old woman shouted, “Maybe you be more older, you also be more ugly!”

The reply was, “Hah! You be so ugly you make a turtle sick!”

That was the beginning of a hilarious exchange of insults that kept the passengers laughing and hooting for the rest of the trip. Several times I started to get up to surrender my seat, but the passengers shouted at me to sit down!

When we arrived at our destination, the entire bus departed, giggling and slapping each other on their backs. Including the old woman and the old man. I realized they knew each other, were probably neighbors, and good friends.


(This post was edited by donJohn40 on Jan 13, 2009, 6:38 PM)


Camille

Jan 13, 2009, 6:38 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1717 views)

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Re: [donJohn40] On the decline of civility

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GREAT story! Felt like I was there.....


pez222


Jan 14, 2009, 8:48 AM

Post #12 of 14 (1660 views)

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Re: [Camille] On the decline of civility

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A GREAT story, the kind that can happen on bus trips.


Oscar2

Jan 14, 2009, 2:25 PM

Post #13 of 14 (1618 views)

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Re: [donJohn40] On the decline of civility

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Another short story that happened in Mexico:


A number of years ago while staying in a great looking; high-rise beachfront resort in Cancun and coming back to the resort by bus in the wee of the morning from partying in town, about 5 or 6 youngster howled themselves into the same bus. They careened in, some staggering and some howling loud enough to wake up the homeless in los callejón's….Laugh

They were hand totting those huge glasses of booze and a Tequila bottle that had them stumbling and at one point they were jumping around and turning summersaults while hanging from the upper hand rails, screaming and caring on as if they were not on a public bus but at a private, unseen party house. Honestly, at first we though it to be hilarious and I think the bus driver was already preconditioned to this until disaster struck….

Yes, a couple of these 15 or 16 year olds started barfing all over the place and the bus instantly became an enclosed poisonous gas chamber…leaving us gasping for fresh air. The need for oxygen started windows flying open but the reek of the gas choked us off the bus in the wee hours to wait for the next one …….. Sheeeeez. We think of this now and laugh, but when it happened, suffocation ruled….. Laugh

(This post was edited by Oscar2 on Jan 14, 2009, 2:32 PM)


BajaGringo


Jan 14, 2009, 3:24 PM

Post #14 of 14 (1600 views)

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Re: [Oscar2] On the decline of civility

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Geez, makes me want to ride the public transportation more late at night...


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