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Reefhound


Nov 3, 2010, 8:50 AM

Post #1 of 15 (2782 views)

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Marijuana fails the vote

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California soundly defeated the infamous Prop. 19 that would have legalized marijuana.

Oregon defeated a bid to expand it's medical marijuana program to create licensed dispensaries.

South Dakota again easily defeated a medical marijuana program.

Arizona narrowly defeated a medical marijuana program.



Gringal

Nov 3, 2010, 9:08 AM

Post #2 of 15 (2766 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Marijuana fails the vote

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You do realize that all the marijuana growers; all their friends, and probably the same folks from out of state who spent megabucks to defeat the gay marriage issue contributed heavily to the results?

That just means that the Central American and Mexican marijuana growers who have moved into the business over the past few years and pretty much taken it over from the CA locals will be cheering mightily at this outcome.

I don't use the stuff, but I do care about the continuing drug trafficking which is so destructive.


Peter


Nov 3, 2010, 9:33 AM

Post #3 of 15 (2749 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Marijuana fails the vote

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 In 1932, wealthy industrialist John D. Rockefeller stated in a letter:

"When Prohibition was introduced, I hoped that it would be widely supported by public opinion and the day would soon come when the evil effects of alcohol would be recognized. I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe that this has not been the result. Instead, drinking has generally increased; the speakeasy has replaced the saloon; a vast army of lawbreakers has appeared; many of our best citizens have openly ignored Prohibition; respect for the law has been greatly lessened; and crime has increased to a level never seen before."
The more one tries to negate a situation that is popularly supported by many people the worse the problem becomes and the more power that is given those supporting the popular issue.

Is it possible the problems being experienced today would be much less if the people were just given what they wanted back in the 60's or 70's?



(This post was edited by Peter on Nov 3, 2010, 9:36 AM)


Reefhound


Nov 3, 2010, 10:14 AM

Post #4 of 15 (2729 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Marijuana fails the vote

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In pretty much any referendum on any issue, the side that wins proclaims the people have spoken and the side that loses makes excuses.


Hound Dog

Nov 3, 2010, 11:47 AM

Post #5 of 15 (2697 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Marijuana fails the vote

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That just means that the Central American and Mexican marijuana growers who have moved into the business over the past few years and pretty much taken it over from the CA locals will be cheering mightily at this outcome.

I don't use the stuff, but I do care about the continuing drug trafficking which is so destructive.

Well put, Gringal. Ironoically, the vote broke down pretty consistently along certain demographic lines with old folks like us providing the margin of defeat or so I read in the U.S. press. Isn´t that rich? The flower children of the 1960s and 70s who were the primary users of weed in those days are now providing the margin to deny that substance to today´s youth unless they purchase it illegally from the Mexican murderers supplied fire power and an insatiable market by U.S. consumers. Sort of like the older women in tribal societies supporting female genital mutilation among their youth because, by God, if excision of the clitoris was good enough for them it´s good enough for their kids.

Just a month or so ago, we were talking to an old friend who was a neighbor in rural Sonoma County, California who was the chief supplier of weed to the whole neighborhood which she grew in her isolated, mountainous back acreage. She and her husband not only sold the best dope in Sonoma County but threw the best nude swimming parties in town. She has completely changed in her 60s and has become a right wing nut who lives in Oakland, hates African Americans and Mexicans and planned to vote against the marijuana referendum. Who says places like Texas and Alabama have a lock on hypocritical retards. I feel lucky I left California ten years ago before it became the Alabama I fled in 1966.

Looking back on it, California should have tried "local county option" as Alabama did at the end of prohibition except the supporters of the referendum, most of whom live in progressive urban (and some rural) areas arrogantly failed to understand that most of California is a backwater with as many troglodytes as benighted Arizona. They may have also forgotten that there are many growers and distributors in California and Mexico who would do anything to prevent legalization of any drugs except alcohol. They were naive to say the least.

In Alabama, local county option meant that of the state´s 67 counties,only a few were "wet" vs. "dry" when I was a kid. Of course all of the big cities such as Birmingham and Mobile were "wet" and a number of very poor counties with poor whites and blacks without transportation were "wet" as well while rural counties in northern parts of the state where the populations were mostly white religious fundamentalists voted to stay "dry". Remember, blacks were mostly not allowed to vote in those days. If California had tried county option, counties such as San Francisco and Alameda would probably have allowed marijuana and less enlightened places would keep weed illegal. That way, as happened in Alabama in the 50s, folks who wanted to buy marijuana would drive to the nearest county where the drug was legal, buy some weed, smoke it on the spot and get back on the highways to home driving pretty much as we did as kids after consuming a case of Pabst Blue Ribbon at the nearest "wet" county line back then.

As an aside, counties legalizing marijuana sales and consumption would receive the benefit of tax revenues arising therefrom and counties refusing legalization would forgo any resulting tax benefits. Fair is fair.

The incredibly profitable if violent Mexican drug suppliers can continue as before. I don´t use drugs of any kind any more and never go to the states. No skin off my back.


(This post was edited by Hound Dog on Nov 3, 2010, 1:04 PM)


Gringal

Nov 3, 2010, 1:06 PM

Post #6 of 15 (2673 views)

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Re: [Hound Dog] Marijuana fails the vote

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Not saying who, naturally, but I do have a few old acquaintances in rural CA who, not realizing that I can't vote on the props. as an expat, were telling me what a terrible thing it would be if the prop passed.

Why, you may ask? Because (lissen up here) their very livlihood depended upon it remaining illegal.
What possible comment can one make to that one?

I guess we can safely assume that all the growers and distributors were hell bent on defeating it, along with the cheering section of those who, like the lady you described, discovered the straight and narrow for themselves and wanted everybody else walking that path, too.

Talk about strange bedfellows!!!! ROFL.


Reefhound


Nov 3, 2010, 1:14 PM

Post #7 of 15 (2668 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Marijuana fails the vote

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I doubt all the growers and distributors would amount to even 1% of the overall vote.


Peter


Nov 3, 2010, 2:00 PM

Post #8 of 15 (2661 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Marijuana fails the vote

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Medical users in California were others that opposed Prop 19, many of them, and many of them were a co-op of small growers that could market it through MMJ dispenseries.

I had many online discussions and was surprised, a little, about who the Cons were.


Reefhound


Nov 3, 2010, 2:04 PM

Post #9 of 15 (2659 views)

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Re: [Peter] Marijuana fails the vote

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Why would the medical marijuana users be against the general legalization? Wasn't it claimed that Prop 19 would drastically cut the end user costs?


Peter


Nov 3, 2010, 2:18 PM

Post #10 of 15 (2651 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Marijuana fails the vote

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In part there was concern that the tax on recreational pot would also cost the medical users, though the counter-argument was that medicines would remain tax-free including pot. The other is that medical users thought it would muddy the water about the overall use of mj and reflect badly on them. Then there were those that had found a way to legally profit from medical mj through the dispensories since the price there is essentially the same as the street price and legalization would deflate the price of their pot.

Perhaps the number of growers in California these days is a little larger than you might expect, enough to help tilt the scale.


Gringal

Nov 3, 2010, 2:19 PM

Post #11 of 15 (2650 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Marijuana fails the vote

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Reefhound: We can speculate who was for and against, and what percentage they were, but:

What were your own reasons for being against legalization of Marijuana? Just curious.

I don't have a pup in this skirmish, since I am neither a user, a grower or a distributor of the stuff.
I was in favor of passage only because it would take the obscene profit from the enterprise and perhaps save a few lives of people involved in the dangerous task of bringing it in from Mexico and So.America.


(This post was edited by Gringal on Nov 3, 2010, 2:23 PM)


Reefhound


Nov 3, 2010, 4:47 PM

Post #12 of 15 (2615 views)

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Re: [Gringal] Marijuana fails the vote

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Gringal, I have even less pup in the fight as I am not in California and neither voted nor lobbied for or against it. I started this thread and posted the results because the proposition had been mentioned several times here in the past. I neither commended nor condemned the results.


tashby

Nov 3, 2010, 7:54 PM

Post #13 of 15 (2576 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Marijuana fails the vote

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Quote
I have even less pup in the fight as I am not in California and neither voted nor lobbied for or against it. I started this thread and posted the results because the proposition had been mentioned several times here in the past. I neither commended nor condemned the results.


That sounds like the definition of "trolling" to me.

Maybe you could mention México in one of your posts since you started a thread about four statewide initiatives in the U.S.


Reefhound


Nov 3, 2010, 8:57 PM

Post #14 of 15 (2552 views)

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Re: [tashby] Marijuana fails the vote

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Sounds more like "informing" to me.

The relevance between U.S. drug laws and drug cartel activity in Mexico has been discussed here repeatedly in the past. No need to repeat it all over again.


tashby

Nov 3, 2010, 10:03 PM

Post #15 of 15 (2542 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Marijuana fails the vote

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Quote
California soundly defeated the infamous Prop. 19 that would have legalized marijuana.

Oregon defeated a bid to expand it's medical marijuana program to create licensed dispensaries.

South Dakota again easily defeated a medical marijuana program.

Arizona narrowly defeated a medical marijuana program.


Thanks for that information.
 
 
 
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