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Nancy Boyd

Jun 27, 2004, 9:08 AM

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Longevity in Mexico

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This post is twofold:

1. A recent post on a forum discussed using cynoff as a bug killer. That name sounds suspiciously like cyanide. The post also discussed having houses sprayed and fogged. This can't possibly be good for humans.

2. Another post talked about harvesting the weeds from Lake Chapala and hoping they weren't used for fertilizer of crops due to the heavy metal contamination in the lake.

It sounds as if chemicals are a possible hazard to health in the area. Comments?

Marlene

Jun 27, 2004, 9:50 AM

Post #2 of 8 (569 views)

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Re: [Nancy Boyd] Longevity in Mexico

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Things that are a concern in other countries aren't always (and sometimes never are) a concern here in Mexico. The way things are done here is something that comes with the territory, really.

For example, I now know the sound of the mosquito spray truck and during this particular season I make sure that my parrot is inside and that there is no patio dining.

We live on a narrow one way street, and while we live quite high up, the folks on the lower floors get it full on! If you don't hear him coming (there is a loud generator type motor), then look out...

The first time I experienced this, I was sitting on my neighbors patio at street level. Needless to say, the cold drinks and pizza had to be put thrown out and we were a bit concerned as to what was in that big fog surrounding us.

None of us felt ill or had any side affects later, so honestly in answer to your question about longevity my guess would be that it would be the sun and tequila that could shorten the life span of humans, if anything.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Jun 27, 2004, 1:09 PM)

Bubba

Jun 27, 2004, 10:55 AM

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Re: [Nancy Boyd] Longevity in Mexico

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The exterminator we used (Angel in Ajijic) mentioned in the other thread claims to use only organic pesticides. We have had no ill effects over the past three years. If you call Angel or any other exterminator in Mexico, simply ask them what chemicals they will be using and do your research as to toxicity on the internet. We both grew up during the 40s and 50s when DDT was widely used. I used to love that smell. So, if we go senile, we won't know who to blame. Ignorance is bliss.

I don't know why you would be harvesting weeds from Lake Chapala but, whatever your reasons, you are welcome to them. The lake is full of toxins and, when it is in recession, there are many truck farms along the shore where all sorts of vegetables are grown in toxic residue that could find themselves to your dining table.

It will be hard to boost interest in whether or not chemical toxins create health habits in a developing country. Since you mentioned Lake Chapala, keep in mind that the government of Jalisco state has other things on its mind at the moment. The prolific rains that Lakeside residents are so pleased to receive and view as beneficial are creating havoc 40 miles north in Guadalajara where thousands are being flooded from their makeshift homes in what MURAL says is a major disaster affecting over 200 colonias in that city. During the dry years, many poorer people built their homes in arroyos or other areas subject to flooding and are now suffering not only from loss of their homes but from diseases borne by the combination of excessive water, garbage and untreated sewage. This phenomenon has caused some physicians in Guadalajara to warn of the possibilty of a rise in mosquito borne Dengue Fever according to MURAL.

To put all this in perspective, according to the most recent edition of Harpers Magazine, Mexico's slums are nothing compared to slums in many lesser ( or least) developed countries in Africa and Asia. According to Harpers, at least 2,000,000 children worldwide die each year in LDCs as a result of contamination of water with human and animal waste.

Mexico's infrastructure is truly advanced compared to many areas of the world according to Harpers. In Bombay, for example, in poorer areas there is one toilet seat per 500 inhabitants and in poorer neighborhoods of Manila and Dhaka, only 11% and 18% of those living therein respectively have any way to dispose of human waste.

Everything's a trade off. Mexico is a lot safer health wise than India but Indian food is arguably a hell of a lot better than Mexican food. I'll stay here, thank you, and take my chances.

Jun 27, 2004, 11:22 AM

Post #4 of 8 (546 views)

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Re: [Nancy Boyd] Longevity in Mexico

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Quote

Nancy Boyd writes:
....A recent post on a forum discussed using cynoff as a bug killer. That name sounds suspiciously like cyanide. The post also discussed having houses sprayed and fogged. This can't possibly be good for humans....

If the material being applied is really Cynoff, an FMC trademarked product, its active ingredient is Cypermethrin, CAS #52315-07-8, a synthetic pyrethroid compound. Synthetic pyrethroids are man-made chemicals which resemble and act similarly to the pyrethrins found in pyrethrum extract obtained from chrysanthemum plants. Because of their lineage, some people either mistakenly or intentionally identify synthetic pyrethroid compounds such as Cypermethrin as "natural", "organic", or "from chrysanthemums"; they're not.

Depending on who's nomenclature you follow, Cypermethrin's chemical structure is either:
- (RS)-ý-cyano-3-phenoxybenzyl (1RS)-cis,trans-3-(2,2-dichlorovinyl)-2,2-dimethylcyclopropanecarboxylate (IUPAC), or
- (RS)-cyano (3-phenoxyphenyl)methyl (1RS)-cis,trans-3-(2,2-dichloroethenyl)-2,2-dimethylcyclopropanecarboxylate (CAS)
In either form, you do have a cyanide group attached to a somewhat complex molecule:

In such a case you would not expect the preferential binding with hemoglobin (the oxygen-carrying component of human blood) and consequent chemical asphyxiation that you see from the hydrogen cyanide that most people think of as "cyanide". Instead both on mammals including humans, as well as insects the material is used to combat, Cypermethrin affects the nervous system. Whether or not this should be of concern to you would logically depend on the application method, concentration of applied material, frequency of application, magnitude of exposure, and frequency of exposure.

(This post was edited by ET on Jun 27, 2004, 12:07 PM)

Jun 27, 2004, 12:02 PM

Post #5 of 8 (534 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Longevity in Mexico

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"Bubba" writes:
The exterminator we used (Angel in Ajijic) mentioned in the other thread claims to use only organic pesticides.....

This can translate to a lot of things. In addition to the confusion of pyrethroids v pyrethrins discussed in my other posting in this thread, you have the classic chemistry separation of organic chemicals and inorganic chemicals, as well as the possibility of organophosphorus (organophosphate) pesticides being the products of choice.

As anybody who attended freshman chemistry learned, the chemical world is divided into two huge realms, organic chemicals and inorganic chemicals. Organic chemicals are those which use one or more carbon atom as a "backbone" and commonly have one or more hydrogen atom attached to this backbone (there are some exceptions to the hydrogen rule, carbonyl chloride (phosgene) as an example has had all of the hydrogen atoms replaced with oxygen and chlorine atoms). Inorganic chemicals are everything else. Using this definition, you've got a pretty broad range of chemicals that could be used under the definition of "organic pesticides" including your DDT as well as such crowd pleasers as methyl parathion, Agent Orange, and sarin "gas".

Within the pesticide world, when concerns rose about the persistence and bioaccumulative properties of the organochlorine pesticides such as DDT, endrin, dieldrin, and chlordane, they were first replaced with organophosphorus compounds such as parathion, malathion, chlorpyrifos, diazinon, and DDVP. Although many of these compounds were considerably more acutely toxic than their organochlorine predecessors, when applied properly they tended to rapidly degrade into non or less toxic molecules. Unfortunately, more recent studies have found that in addition to the high-concentration effects that applicators were protected against, low-level long-term exposures to some of these compounds may have more subtle neurological effects and/or risks of cancers to these same applicators. Whether or not these effects can be extrapolated to the general population is still being hotly debated but the end result is that the use of many organophosphorus pesticides has been phased out in the US.

Personally, if somebody came marching through claiming they were applying organic pesticides, my response would be along the lines of "Really....".

PS - The odor you associate with DDT was most likely from the "inert" ingredients used to make DDT go into a solution that could be spray applied, and/or the mercaptans that were commonly a byproduct created during the manufacturing of DDT. You can still get your happy childhood memories (if getting sprayed with a pesticide is a happy childhood experience....) without having the perigrine falcons go crunch on their little ones.

(This post was edited by ET on Jun 27, 2004, 12:09 PM)

kirkswig

Jun 27, 2004, 2:01 PM

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Re: [Nancy Boyd] Longevity in Mexico

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I've spent a good deal of time thinking about health concerns too, as I've just finished a week's stay in Mexico and will be returning to live in a few weeks.

The pesticide question I think is a toss-up. While the stuff they may use in Mexico sounds scarier, I think in the long-run it's likely less hazardous to humans, simply because they get to use more effective pesticides like DDT, which hopefully translates into less frequent applications of the stuff. Maybe that's not so good for the environment, but it's probably a plus for your personal health. Marlene points out that the city will spray regularly for mosquitoes, and that at least she has the opportunity to escape the bulk of that. I remember a few years back when I was living in Brooklyn and the city was spraying for mosquitoes during the West Nile Virus scare and there was no escaping that: they used helicopters. So personally, I don't consider Mexico any more dangerous than the U.S., at least on that front.

I am however somewhat concerned by the air pollution I witnessed. I very quickly noticed how effective the emissions controls in the U.S. are. I was walking along some heavily travelled streets away from the coastline where the fumes would become downright noxious and it wasn't a happy sensation breathing that stuff in. That said however, I've managed to find a neighborhood that is not so heavily travelled by automobile, an apartment that has a steady breeze coming in from the ocean, which is very sweet air, and plan on spending most of my time away from the apartment on the beach, or otherwise by the coast, so air pollution shouldn't really be a problem for me personally. Again, there are some pretty noxious avenues in the U.S. too, emission controls or no. I think it's more a matter of the locality you live in than the country itself.

My biggest concern going in was food and water. Sure, most of the time you're OK but that one time you get hit with something nasty can be enough to make you forget how good the fare was the rest of the time. For the most part, my concerns here were unfounded. The water situation is very good; where I live you have a veritable army of guys prowling the neighborhood looking to sell you bottled water that has been purified and which tastes great. I wouldn't drink water from the tap in the U.S. either, unless it was very good, like it is in New York City. And while some of the restaurants I frequented wouldn't appear to have a chance in hell of passing a safety inspection in the U.S., the proprietors of these establishments and their employees are (justifiably) proud of their cuisine. In the U.S., while the restaurant may be spotless, it's usually pretty clear that everybody working there would rather be somewhere else. I'd take the former over the latter any day. Dirt, rat droppings, and flies all find a kind of containment in the natural equilibrium formed in a busy restaurant. I'm more concerned with what happens to that tortilla that gets dropped on the floor. In the U.S., I'd bet half the time it ends up back on my plate. I think that much less likely in the restaurants I frequented in Mexico (except maybe a couple of the touristy ones.)

The more depressing question of food is the one you bring up, heavy metals. But you're not escaping that no matter what you do. Mercury is everywhere, especially in seafood, and I plan on eating a lot of that in Mazatlan regardless. Vehicles pumps out enormous amounts of heavy metals regardless of emissions controls, and they routinely drive past farms and ranches where the stuff eventually finds its way into your food. The runoff from the Colorado River that gets dumped into the Sea of Cortez, and therefore onto the beaches I'll be frequenting, is likely laced with some very nasty stuff too. That said, I'm living next to the Colorado River right now. That's where I get my tap water. What am I supposed to do? Where am I supposed to go to be free of this?

To boldly go where no wig has gone before.

jardinero viejo

Jun 28, 2004, 10:15 AM

Post #7 of 8 (389 views)

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Re: [Nancy Boyd] Longevity in Mexico

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Reading the posts makes one realize the worldwide environmental problems we are headed for. Pretty serious stuff, yet often underestimated.

Of course, we all know the routine- we can only hope that enough folks give of their time to: 1) pass on the type of information that Bubba mentions to as many others as possible; 2) support efforts by governments and eco-groups to intensify finding and implementing solutions; and, 3) become passionately involved personally.

Here we sit, hoping that our Mexico experience will be a relaxing, stress-free escape from the culture and hassles up above and elsewhere. The idea was to not have to worry about so many things. But, the world has indeed gotten smaller, so escaping worldwide problems just doesn't work any more. Just the luck of the draw for current generations.

Like all countries, Mexico has groups working to protect/restore the environment. They are small and grass-rooty, but they are there. From what I've seen, Mexicans in general seem to support protection of natural things. The only glitch is that they are not aware of the problems or the solutions out there. Unlike the US, they have not been made aware of the danger of the spraying, the food growing conditions, the air quality, etc. And, with the day-to-day demands being so limiting, they are not able to become 'activists'. But, I believe they would support these 'activists' and their programs, if only they were aware of the problems.

In tactful ways, it is possible to give real help to the protection of the earth and our health in our little slices of Mexico. If done with respect, which is always appropriate, a foreigner living in Mexico can become involved with these issues. In fact, having lived in more developed countries, we have built-in knowledge and skills that are so needed. Contributions to grass-roots environmental groups will usually go directly to the source, unlike a government organization where the $ may end up elsewhere. Time and energy volunteered results in exactly the type of unique cultural interaction that many of us came here for.

Although we've spent a lot of time in Mexico, we are still rather new to our Mexico living experience. We'd welcome hearing about any of these groups or organizations, especially in the Nayarit/Jalisco region. Thanks in advance.
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" To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the public."
Theodore Roosevelt
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Bubba

Jun 28, 2004, 1:26 PM

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Re: [ET] Longevity in Mexico

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Thanks, ET:

Keep in mind that Bubba was a football player in a truly awful public high school where the football coach also was the chemistry teacher thereby ensuring academic success for Bubba whose sole recollection of that entire year is of his showing us how to make gunpowder. Whatever the meaning of the term "organic", at least the things that can kill you that you cannot see do not give you the willies in the process. As I am not desirous of sharing my living space with cockroaches, scorpions and such, I will continue to have the house professionally sprayed and suck up the resultant potential poisons. This is all my parents' fault. I didn't ask to be born, after all.