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Yacatecuhtli

Jul 26, 2011, 1:40 PM

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Less than a year per head ……..

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El Ponchis, Edgar Jimenez Lugo, is found guilty of murdering and beheading 4 rivals (of the 7 he was accused of) in Cuernavaca and is sentenced to 3 years in jail.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...world_news-americas/

chinagringo

Jul 26, 2011, 2:16 PM

Post #2 of 14 (1270 views)

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Re: [Yacatecuhtli] Less than a year per head ……..

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From the article, I understand that to be the max sentence he could receive under the law. Similar in many ways to the 21 years that the Norwegian bomber/shooter can receive. One has to wonder if Mexico will extradite him to the US after he services his time since according to reports, he was in the country illegally?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

mazbook1

Jul 26, 2011, 2:29 PM

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Re: [chinagringo] Less than a year per head ……..

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Not similar at all, chinagringo. This kid was only 14, so therefore could only be sentenced as a juvenile offender, something that expires when he reaches 18. This is similar to the U.S., where a juvenile this young probably could never be tried as an adult offender, thus getting only a juvenile sentence that can't be carried on into adulthood. The deal in Norway is quite a different situation.

chinagringo

Jul 26, 2011, 3:13 PM

Post #4 of 14 (1245 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Less than a year per head ……..

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I misspoke is using that comparison. I was thinking more along the lines of the original statement: "less than a year per head....."
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

stevebrtx

Jul 26, 2011, 4:26 PM

Post #5 of 14 (1220 views)

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Re: [Yacatecuhtli] Less than a year per head ……..

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When I first saw the story (and I realize this is not MX) I thought it was a misprint. Then I read a story which was the usual apologetic claptrap titled "A Message to Norway" - I wrote them and said your story is mislabeled, it should have been "A Message FROM Norway" (to the world).
www.chapalaweather.net

Reefhound

Jul 26, 2011, 5:04 PM

Post #6 of 14 (1205 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Less than a year per head ……..

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"This is similar to the U.S., where a juvenile this young probably could never be tried as an adult offender, thus getting only a juvenile sentence that can't be carried on into adulthood."

False. 14 yr olds can and are often tried as adults in the U.S. for violent crimes, and almost always for premeditated murder. Many states allow prosecutors sole discretion in whether to charge them as adults while others require a judicial hearing. Yet others require them to be tried as adults for certain crimes. And when all else fails, juvenile sentences can extend to age 25.

"There are 232 inmates in the state prison system who committed crimes as juveniles, were prosecuted as adults and sentenced to life in prison without parole, said Seth Unger, spokesman for the California Department of Corrections. Unger said he didn't have the breakdown on how many of those inmates were convicted in Ventura County."
http://www.vcstar.com/...p-170-da-cites-gang/

"In 1994, Maryland lawmakers voted to require police to charge minors 16 and older as adults when they are arrested for any of a long list of crimes, including armed robbery, possession of a handgun and various forms of assault. The state already required police to treat youths 14 and older charged with first-degree murder and rape as adults."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/...s/youthlaw032998.htm

All states have provisions for prosecuting children as young as 14 in courts of law as adults. Many states are steadily lowering the age that children can be tried as adults. In some states this could be the case for children as young as 10 years old.
http://www.come-over.to/fasstar/juvcrime1.htm

whynotwrite

Jul 26, 2011, 5:28 PM

Post #7 of 14 (1194 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Less than a year per head ……..

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I love your examples,
Life with out parole for minors
Some states can prosecute 10 year olds.
Nice. Glad I moved away from that justice system.
Have a nice day, watch out for those traffic cameras.

chinagringo

Jul 26, 2011, 5:59 PM

Post #8 of 14 (1190 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Less than a year per head ……..

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Now, there is something progressive that the US can hang their collective hats on! Taking juveniles who are too dumb to be able to drink, too young to drive, can't vote but treat them as adults in order to slap harsher sentences on them. Mexico at the very least recognizes their limitations and takes the chance that they won't become a permanent part of the system. How about we prosecute the members of Congress as juveniles for acting as such?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

cbviajero

Jul 26, 2011, 7:03 PM

Post #9 of 14 (1171 views)

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Re: [whynotwrite] Less than a year per head ……..

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He was convicted of killing and beheading 4 people for money,nice kid,3 years seems a tad lenient to me.He will be 17 or 18 when he gets out,I hope they don't release him in my neighborhood.IMO you moved away from a bad justice system to one that is much worse.

Reefhound

Jul 26, 2011, 7:54 PM

Post #10 of 14 (1157 views)

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Re: [chinagringo] Less than a year per head ……..

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Whatever. The fact is the juvenile system was designed for unruly kids who steal things or destroy things, not kids who commit kidnappings and murders. It is a system from an era when such things were unheard of, now adults manipulate the system by using kids knowing they can be treated leniently. And the kids are not so naive either.

When this kid gets out in three years he will almost surely return to his gangs and continue killing. Let's hope his future victims aren't you or your loved ones.

(This post was edited by Reefhound on Jul 26, 2011, 7:56 PM)

richmx2

Jul 26, 2011, 11:36 PM

Post #11 of 14 (1132 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Less than a year per head ……..

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Part of that is that the United States is NOT a signatory to the U.N. Convention on the Rights of the Child, but Mexico is. And — as the new provisions in our Constitution make explicit — such international conventions are the law of the land. Without getting into the merits (or even justice) of incarcerating minors as adults, a longer sentence for a child would be unacceptable in signatory countries.

I'd also point out that although México is radically secular, Roman Catholic thought on crime and punishment have had a tremendous impact on the legal system here. Going back to Aquinas, it's been held that one must be of the "age of reason" to have fully informed moral responsibility for actions. Maybe Aquinas was never a child, or maybe serfs grew up fast in his day, but he set the age of responsibility at 7 years. There's been a bit of discussion about that over the last 800 years or so, but it's normally considered to be 14 or 15.

And, both Latin American and Europe, in THEORY, incarceration is more about rehabilitation than punishment.

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http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Reefhound

Jul 27, 2011, 7:03 AM

Post #12 of 14 (1105 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Less than a year per head ……..

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"And, both Latin American and Europe, in THEORY, incarceration is more about rehabilitation than punishment."

Without getting deeply into a debate on the proper "age of reason" and how children *should* be handled, the above statement is very important. In keeping with it, I don't see how rehabilitation is possible when you limit the incarceration to the point that the perpetrator (not to mention the victims) see it as a slap on the wrist.

I don't see how anyone can honestly believe one becomes instantly "rehabilitated" because they reach a certain age. If one truly believe a 14 yr old is too young to fully understand the responsibility of his actions, how does it make sense holding him til he's 18? You're keeping him in detention while he is not responsible and then releasing him when he is responsible. How does that make sense?

jreboll

Jul 27, 2011, 12:54 PM

Post #13 of 14 (1025 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] Less than a year per head ……..

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I doubt that this young man will be a threat to anyone from here on. Now that he is well known he will be lucky to make it out of jail and if he does his enemies will be waiting for him. His family might also suffer because of all this.

Mexberry

Jul 28, 2011, 4:47 PM

Post #14 of 14 (878 views)

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Re: [Yacatecuhtli] Less than a year per head ……..

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Whether they are suicide bombers, executioners or child soldiers, kids are being abused by adults and probably not given any option - do it or die.
The real villains are the zealots who prey on children. If you lock juveniles up for any longer, they will for sure become hardened criminals.
Mexberry.