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Carol Schmidt

Dec 29, 2003, 7:49 PM

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Just heard on CNN

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Apparently older Mexican-Americans who live in areas of the US with a large number of other Mexican-Americans are less likely to become depressed than those who are more isolated. That's what the short blurb on CNN said.

So I wonder if older US citizens living in areas of Mexico where there are a large number of other US citizens are less likely to become depressed than those who are more isolated?

I didn't get any more details of the study than I cite above, and am just wondering aloud about the implications of human need for others who are similar to themselves? I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life in San Miguel, home to many gringos, and I don't think I would have done as well in an area where I felt isolated. Not being fluent in Spanish is a definite factor, though I probably would have learned more Spanish if I absolutely had had to.

I guess the study only applies to those who were studied and one shouldn't generalize without further research, but the news did set me thinking. Are there some gringos who absolutely prefer to be isolated, to not have any other gringos around?

Is just one good friend who understands you (no matter what that friend's background) enough to compensate for any feeling of missing those who are similar to you, or does it take some sort of mass of those who are similar to you whether you are close to any of them or not?

Do many gringos ever become really, really close to many Mexicans, even if they are fluent Spanish speakers? Are we ever totally accepted? Do we try to be? Should we try to be? Just airing some thoughts the news story started in my head.

Carol Schmidt

jennifer rose

Dec 30, 2003, 8:24 AM

Post #2 of 10 (860 views)

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Gringo-Mexican Friendship

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Here's the link to the story, which was noted on MexicoConnect's home page: http://abcnews.go.com/...ap20031229_1868.html

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Are there some gringos who absolutely prefer to be isolated, to not have any other gringos around?

[snip]

Do many gringos ever become really, really close to many Mexicans, even if they are fluent Spanish speakers? Are we ever totally accepted? Do we try to be? Should we try to be?

Yes, there are gringos who lead lives separate and apart from other gringos. I wouldn’t go so far as to call that “isolation;” I see it more as an issue of integration. Gringos who always remain in the pack of gringos, with their only real connection being English-speaking aliens, can get kind of boring, IMHO.

Yes, gringos can become close to Mexicans. I don’t see it as a matter of nationality, but more one of affinity groups. The color of one’s passport isn’t the defining factor in the least.

One of my social groups is held together by nothing more than getting together weekly for dinner. At first I thought “Is this is a PAN women’s group?” But then I discovered that half the women were actually PRI, with a PRD stalwart thrown in for diversity, and that political persuasion really had nothing to do with our friendship.

Another circle is loosely woven by an interest in the arts, horses and dogs, cooking and the paranormal, not necessarily in that order.

I’m the only gringo in those circles, but outside of making self-effacing jokes about it, it doesn’t seem to matter. About the only time that’s brought up is in reference to travel or study in the US or someone’s grandmother who came from France. I’m also the only lawyer and usually the only Semite, but those features are seldom the basis for forming friendships here. Common interest and similar backgrounds seem more determinative.

Carol Schmidt

Dec 30, 2003, 12:56 PM

Post #3 of 10 (821 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Gringo-Mexican Friendship

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Thanks for the ABC News link to the full story, Jennifer. I especially liked the researcher's comment, anglos living in the US think about being depressed much more, it's acceptable, while a Mexican-American is more likely to say, "Times are tough, life is hard," and shrug.

Carol Schmidt

elcomputo

Dec 30, 2003, 8:23 PM

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Just heard on CNN

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Yes, I believe language is the salient factor. The better your Spanish, the more familiar you are with colloquialisms, with "inside jokes" and such, the less isolated you will feel. But, as pointed out in another string, older gringos with little previous training in speaking and understanding Spanish typically have a very difficult time handling the isolation of having no way of communicating with Mexicans. Thus, we gravitate toward communities where there are others speaking the same language -- and having similar experiences in common.

I am currently tutoring an American teenager who needs an American GED. But he has been in Mexico for three years. He speaks Spanish fluently, without an accent. Except to get his GED certificate, he has no desire to return to the United States -- ever. He is more comfortable here. He has, in effect, "gone native." The difference between us is that he is young and could pick up the language quickly. I'm not, and I can't, and it will be a while, if ever, that I move to an all-Spanish-speaking community.

Martin

geri

Jan 2, 2004, 12:13 PM

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Just heard on CNN

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When I first moved to Mexico, I certainly intended to have more Mexican friends than I have and to be imore fully ntegrated into the Mexican community, and I take total responsibility for not having done so. It is mostly a "language thing." Although I am not dumb and am educated, I find that becoming fluent in Spanish is VERY difficult. I get by. I can converse on a minimum basis, but studies show that the brain is wired for language acquisition between the ages of 2 and 10. That doesn't mean we can't learn a language later in life, but the later the harder. If I had it to do over again, I would play videos and records in Spanish to my children at a very young age. The accent/pronunciation might get imbedded into their language brain. Ideally, I would hire a Mexican nanny, etc. etc. But, since I can't go back, I merely trudge on... taking Spanish classes, finding Mexican people willing to "tolerate" my slowness and horrible accent. There are certainly plenty of them here.

The other drawbacks to more wholly integrating are the mutliple cultural differences. These are what keep me separated and at the same time keep me here. I find the cultural differences fascinating and never-ending. While I try to adjust to some of them, I am uncomfortable participating wholly. It's the cultural differences that spark my life, make each day interesting/challenging. I think as we get older, "use it or lose it" certainly takes on more immediate meaning. Therefore, I bumble along with Spanish lessons and am ever-fascinated by the different day-to-day customs.

As a single, older woman, life here is certainly much less solitary and lonesome than in the U.S. The gringos/gringas that gravitate here are much more interesting than those in most neighborhoods in the U.S. Mexico serves as a sieve. I further sieve and find dozens of like-minded expats with whom to travel and socialize...when I'm not bent on peeling back the onion-skin layers of Mexican customs.

With all its difficulties, disillusionments, and differences, life in Mexico is still my choice.

Geri in Oaxaca

geri

Jan 2, 2004, 12:27 PM

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Just heard on CNN

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A few other thoughts. Through the years, I have met several well-meaning gringos who move here with the sole intent of becoming integrated, of avoiding the gringo community. Most, if not all of them, become disillusioned. Not because it's not possible to become integrated, but because they are naive about the reality of what it takes. You cannot, especially with limited Spanish, just GO IN. What I love about the Mexican people is their respectful natures. They are NOT abrasive (except behind the wheel of a car or in line at the supermarket). Their sense of politeness and respect is endearing, but it also makes foreigners feel, at first, more accepted than they really are. Many Mexicans, not all, are drawn to extranjeros. I'm not sure for what reasons, but real closeness is earned over time...as in any culture. Most foreigners who move here bent on becoming instantly integrated are disillusioned, unless of course they have a background/family history/language advantage.

I am talking about southern Mexico. What I experience may not be the same in other parts of Mexico. Mexico is NOT one culture. Just like the U.S. is NOT one culture. What is true of New York may be different in Montgomery, Alabama, for instance. Although this is obvious and simple, I state it to avoid flames about Mexican culture.

Peace in the New Year.

Geri

Marlene

Jan 2, 2004, 6:36 PM

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Re: [geri] Just heard on CNN

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Geri,

You have some heartfelt thoughts here and thanks for sharing them. The language is the ultimate key to unlock the door, it really is. Being married to a Mexican, I live on the inside, so to speak, and I have observed some interesting reactions to foreigners. Some that have made me cringe, and made me stop to think about how we come to Mexico and do not fully anticipate how our behavior (our culture?) comes across to the locals. They are very accommodating, but don't think they don't discuss our peculiarities (as they see them) and try to make some sense of them.

geri

Jan 2, 2004, 6:44 PM

Post #8 of 10 (649 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Just heard on CNN

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Thanks for reaffirming what I feel. Much of what I know about the cultural differences and the Mexicans attitudes toward foreigners, I have learned from friends who have Mexican boyfriends/husbands. And it makes sense. It's just not "obvious" to outsiders who want to believe that things aren't so different. They want to believe the surface smiles and niceties. Thank God for those ways, but when you start to peel off the layers of the onion, the REAL interest/challenge begins.

geri in Oaxaca

Madeline

Jan 9, 2004, 7:17 PM

Post #9 of 10 (509 views)

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Re: [geri] Just heard on CNN

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This exchange has been very interesting. I'm hoping to move to Mexico next year, and I don't want to live completely surrounded by other Americans. I will be working very hard on my Spanish on an on-going basis, and I think that I have many interests which will give me ways to find common ground. Fortunately, I have traveled enough and know enough people from other countries that I expect cultural differences. That's what makes the experienceew so textured. I know it is not going to be easy, but I'll always have the Forums! I'm new, but I already see how great this is.

TomG

Jan 10, 2004, 12:42 AM

Post #10 of 10 (492 views)

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Re: [geri] Just heard on CNN

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Hi Geri;

I didn't know you were back from Guatemala. Aqui estamos en casa. I hope you can stop by. I'm anxious to talk with you about this topic.

Tom Gibbs

(This post was edited by TomG on Jan 10, 2004, 1:16 AM)