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Rolly


Feb 7, 2011, 7:27 AM

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It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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Borderland Beat has a chilling story of a documentary made from an interview with a cartel hit man.
It is not pleasant reading. It begins:

It was Better to Just Shoot Them

Charles Bowden, writer and reporter specializing in the subject of narco-traffic and the author of the book “Murder City” interviewed a Mexican hitman over a five day period. These conversations were captured by the Italian director Gianfranco Rosi. The result is the documentary “El Sicario, Room 164” which has been shown in Europe and will be seen in New York this month, although no one in Mexico has dared to distribute it.


Rolly Pirate

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Maritsa


Feb 7, 2011, 9:29 AM

Post #2 of 12 (4084 views)

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Re: [Rolly] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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Whew! Don´t think I should have read that article until I digested my breakfast.
To think that we call our society "civilized". I often think about the violence I see on the news and read about - now and throughout history-and have wondered what the solution might be for those of us who are not violent and could never even imagine committing acts like these. I have not wanted to say it out loud, but I have thought that maybe the drug cartel guys should be lined up against el muro and the fence should be painted red.

But that could get us into a real big moral, philosophical, religious debate I guess.


wendy devlin

Feb 7, 2011, 10:40 AM

Post #3 of 12 (4059 views)

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Re: [Rolly] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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The complete documentary is available for: El sicario, room 164

http://www.la-ch.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6916%3Ael-documental-completo-el-sicario-room-164&catid=56%3Ageneral&Itemid=70

Charles Bowden's interview with the sicario appeared in Harper's Magazine in May 2009. The hitman was sent at 17 to the police academy in El Paso and returned to work out of Juarez as a state police officer. Hired to kill...all over Mexico.

When I read the full transcript a year or more back, it broke open the complicity of all players in the conflict. The article is still under copyright but the part below is readily available.

"The sicario: A Juárez hit man speaks"
Charles Bowden
Harper's Magazine


I am ready for the story of all the dead men who last saw his face.
As I drank coffee and tried to frame questions in my mind, a crime reporter in Juárez was cut down beside his eight-year-old daughter as they sat in his car letting it warm up. This morning as I drove down here, a Toyota passed me with a bumper sticker that read, with a heart symbol, i love love. This morning I tried to remember how I got to this rendezvous.
I was in a distant city and a man told me of the killer and how he had hidden him. He said at first he feared him, but he was so useful. He would clean everything and cook all the time and get on his hands and knees and polish his shoes. I took him on as a favor, he explained.
I said, “I want him. I want to put him on paper.”
And so I came.

The man I wait for insists, “You don’t know me. No one can forgive me for what I did.”
He has pride in his hard work. The good killers make a very tight pattern through the driver’s door. They do not spray rounds everywhere in the vehicle, no, they make a tight pattern right through the door and into the driver’s chest. The reporter who died received just such a pattern, ten rounds from a 9mm and not a single bullet came near his eight-year-old daughter.

I wait.
I admire craftsmanship.
The first call comes at 9:00 and says to expect the next call at 10:05. So I drive fifty miles and wait. The call at 10:05 says to wait until 11:30. The call at 11:30 does not come, and so I wait and wait. Next door is a game store frequented by men seeking power over a virtual world. Inside the coffee shop, it is all calculated calm and everything is clean.
I am in the safe country. I will not name the city, but it is far from Juárez and it is down by the river. At noon, the next call comes.

We meet in a parking lot, our cars conjoined like cops with driver next to driver. I hand over some photographs. He quickly glances at them and then tells me to go to a pizza parlor. There he says we must find a quiet place because he talks very loudly. I rent a motel room with him. None of this can be arranged ahead of time because that would allow me to set him up.

He glances at the photographs, images never printed in newspapers. He stabs his finger at a guy standing over a half-exposed body in a grave and says, “This picture can get you killed.”
I show him the photograph of the woman. She is lovely in her white clothes and perfect makeup. Blood trickles from her mouth, and the early-morning light caresses her face. The photograph has a history in my life. Once I placed it in a magazine and the editor there had to field a call from a terrified man, her brother, who asked, “Are you trying to get me killed, to get my family killed?” I remember the editor calling me up and asking me what I thought the guy meant. I answered, “Exactly what he said.”

Now the man looks at her and tells me she was the girlfriend of the head of the sicarios in Juárez, and the guys in charge of the cartel thought she talked too much. Not that she’d ever given up a load or anything, it was simply the fact that she talked too much. So they told her boyfriend to kill her and he did. Or he would die.

This is ancient ground. The term sicario goes back to Roman Palestine, where a Jewish sect, the Sicarii, used concealed daggers (sicae) in their murders of Romans and their supporters.

He leans forward. “Amado and Vicente”—the two brothers who have successively headed the Juárez cartel—“could kill you if they even thought you were talking,” he says.
These photographs can get you killed. Words can get you killed. And all this will happen and you will die and the sentence will never have a subject, simply an object falling dead to the ground.

I feel myself falling down into some kind of well, some dark place that hums beneath the workaday city, and in this place there is a harder reality and absolute facts. I have been living, I think, in a kind of fantasy world of laws and theories and logical events. Now I am in a country where people are murdered on a whim and a beautiful woman is found in the dirt with blood trickling from her mouth and then she is wrapped with explanations that have no actual connection to what happened.

I have spent years getting to this moment. The killers, well, I have been around them before. Once I partied with two hundred armed killers in a Mexican hotel for five days. But they were not interested in talking about their murders. He is.


Bennie García

Feb 7, 2011, 10:55 AM

Post #4 of 12 (4048 views)

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Re: [Rolly] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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I found some things in the article that raised the needle on my BS meter. I think the participants in these articles are all self-serving to a degree, author and hit man and film maker, and that casts some doubt on the objectivity and the accuracy of the details portrayed.


rockydog85251

Feb 7, 2011, 11:56 AM

Post #5 of 12 (4022 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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May I humbly suggest that readers and doubters of this information please add to their reading list the following by Charles Bowden.....yes, is does write for money, but so do a lot of others..........

Down by the River
Some of the Dead are Still Breathing
Murder City
Blue Desert

This is just a few of his many books that can be eye openers to the under layers of the "onion". Just keep peeling away........
Willie


norteño

Feb 7, 2011, 12:23 PM

Post #6 of 12 (4012 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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In Reply To
I found some things in the article that raised the needle on my BS meter. I think the participants in these articles are all self-serving to a degree, author and hit man and film maker, and that casts some doubt on the objectivity and the accuracy of the details portrayed.

You and I are in full agreement on this.


turnabout

Feb 7, 2011, 1:16 PM

Post #7 of 12 (3989 views)

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Re: [norteño] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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When the rag Boarderland Beat reveals who is financing the operation I may ( or may not ) take them serious. Someone is throwing big money around to keep this web rag up and running and has yet to admit to who is doing the financing. Quoting and using this thing as a reliable source with out knowing who you are in bed with may not be a good thing if you value your reputation.


Reefhound


Feb 7, 2011, 1:54 PM

Post #8 of 12 (3969 views)

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Re: [turnabout] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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What big money? You can get domain registration for $8/yr and web hosting for $5/mo, the site looks like it was designed by a high school kid, and the articles are all written by volunteer contributors.


norteño

Feb 7, 2011, 2:01 PM

Post #9 of 12 (3965 views)

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Re: [Reefhound] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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It is hard to take Bowden seriously when he makes such a big thing about the necessity to keep his informant's identity secret, and then reveals details that, if true, would out him in a New York minute if any Mexican criminal organization were really interested. (How many police cadets do you think had to get special clearance from the Juárez mayor to attend the police academy at the age of 17, and then were sent to the FBI academy?)


arbon

Feb 7, 2011, 2:04 PM

Post #10 of 12 (3962 views)

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Re: [turnabout] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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When the rag Boarderland Beat reveals who is financing the operation I may ( or may not ) take them serious. Someone is throwing big money around to keep this web rag up and running and has yet to admit to who is doing the financing. Quoting and using this thing as a reliable source with out knowing who you are in bed with may not be a good thing if you value your reputation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Boarderland Beat is usualy only the translater, and they name their source with link at the end of Source Article
Monday, February 7, 2011 | Borderland Beat Reporter Smurf Source Article:
http://www.vanguardia.com.mx/jalisconayaritycolimacampodebatallaentregruposdenarcos-647230.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Bennie García

Feb 7, 2011, 6:00 PM

Post #11 of 12 (3886 views)

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Re: [rockydog85251] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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May I humbly suggest that you don't assume we aren't aware of Bowden's works. In Down by the River I especially found numerous "BS flags", enough for me to have my doubts about much of its authenticity.

I think Blood Orchid was a far superior book.


(This post was edited by Bennie García on Feb 7, 2011, 6:01 PM)


Memo

Feb 8, 2011, 4:22 AM

Post #12 of 12 (3809 views)

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Re: [Bennie García] It was Better to Just Shoot Them

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I think this is complete and utter BS. A lot of what this supposed "sicario" said and did makes me seriously doubt it. Just a few things though:

1. The most obvious is that a real sicario wouldnt dare expose himself like this or even bother to.

2. His voice was not disguised, nor his hands, nor his handwriting for christs sake! It would be easy for just about anybody to peg this guy. Ridiculous.

3. It seems very contrived. A monologue instead of question and answer. Some really bad acting. Would a sicario put himself on as a show like this? Jumping up and down, etc etc? Doubt it. Its farcical.

4. They put the TV on loud to drown out any noise the kidnap victim in the bathroom might make? Well that just doesnt make sense. In that case, you wouldnt be able to hear the noise the victim is making because of the TV and the other guests would considering the victim would likely be tapping on the bathtub, wall, etc etc. Think about it. I would want that room dead quiet so I knew exactly what was going on at all times.

5. They used marked cop cars for secuestros? Not likely.

6. He claimed that if the kidnap victim did not have any money, he would be required to pass
over the rights to his properties. Well that is ludicrous considering how difficult the paperwork is, how traceable it is and what a hassle it would be. Bullshit.

7. He claims he made a call on a public telephone when he thought the cartel had turned on him, yet recieved a call on his own phone. So which is it? Anyways, how many public phones do you find available in Mexico these days? He clearly didnt have a problem using his own phone while performing his duties as a hitman.

8. Gps chips in the bodies of informants? Come on. If you were an informant, would you want to risk your life on the cartel finding such a chip on your body? I wouldnt, how about you?

9. Oh and he finds Christ at the end? Haha! Pleeeeeeeeeease. Holl-y-WOOD.


(This post was edited by Memo on Feb 8, 2011, 4:26 AM)
 
 
 
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