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Kip

Jul 10, 2004, 8:59 AM

Post #1 of 19 (988 views)

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Internet libel repercussions

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Someone on a Private Forum has admonished us all not to say anything, even though true, about anyone for fear of legal problems. Like I said this is a Private forum dealing with problems women in Mexico face, and not being able to warn our friends of problem people, places and things, kind of defeats our purpose. Having seen the mud slinging contests on some of the other forums I find it hard to believe. No one would have time for anything but legal battles!

So my question/request is: Does anyone know "Personally" of anything like this occurring? Since a forwarded message could be doctored to say anything, it just seems strange to me.

Any help or information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Kip
kip

dumois

Jul 10, 2004, 12:27 PM

Post #2 of 19 (948 views)

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Re: [Kip] Internet libel repercussions

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Mexican law do provide actions against foreigners actively and negatively expressing their opinions about Mexican politics or what is considered to be our internal affairs. I was born in Cuba; then became a citizen of this country. I remember repeated jokes on me about Article 33 ("Te vamos a aplicar el 33", meaning that I'd be expelled from the country for saying this or that.) Of course, nothing ever happened.

In my personal opinion, far worse than the flexible Mexican law are other implications that may fall on foreigners who insist on talking destructively about Mexico and her ways. These persons are deeply disliked and rejected down here. Mexicans may be willing to listen to polite and constructive criticism; never to majaderías and uninformed prejudices.

Dealing with a Mexican official is one thing; facing the negative reaction of the people you are supposed to be interested in is another.

More than studying Mexican law then, I'd recommend you to learn and understand Mexican thinking and culture. In that way you'll be safe in the face of the law and, far more important, in the face of your neighbors.

Saludos desde Guadalajara,

Dumois

Kip

Jul 10, 2004, 1:04 PM

Post #3 of 19 (942 views)

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Re: [dumois] Internet libel repercussions

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Sorry Dumois, I didn't explain the details. This doesn't have anything to do with the Mexican people or Mexico. All the gals in our group seem to be enraptured with both. This has to do with someone warning us about and telling us her experience with a Gringa, and whether or not there could be legal repercussions even though ours is a private forum and the consensus of all who have come in contact with this person is that the situation was not out of character for her.

Kip
kip

Uncle Jack

Jul 10, 2004, 1:21 PM

Post #4 of 19 (937 views)

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Re: [Kip] Internet libel repercussions

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Kip;

As jennifer will be glad to tell you, I am no expert on Mexican law. I believe that you are talking about your Comadres group. If I am not mistaken that is a Yahoo forum and is based and hosted in the U.S. I think it would take a real stretch and a really outrageous breach of libel and slander standards to ever even come to the attention of the Mexican government. As you say, it is a private group.

uj

Marlene

Jul 10, 2004, 1:41 PM

Post #5 of 19 (931 views)

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Re: [Kip] Internet libel repercussions

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Here is a compiliation of information on this topic (from various locations in the world) for starters.

http://directory.google.com/...Defamation/Internet/

Quote

So my question/request is: Does anyone know "Personally" of anything like this occurring?

As mentioned by someone here before, there IS a case presently before the courts in Mazatlan. FYI, in Mexico slander and libel are not civil matters as they are in some other countries, instead they bring criminal charges. Big difference.

sfmacaws

Jul 10, 2004, 4:30 PM

Post #6 of 19 (902 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Internet libel repercussions

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Is it true that the case in Mazatlan is between foreigners?

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

Marlene

Jul 10, 2004, 4:41 PM

Post #7 of 19 (898 views)

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Re: [sfmacaws] Internet libel repercussions

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Not entirely.

sfmacaws

Jul 10, 2004, 4:44 PM

Post #8 of 19 (896 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Internet libel repercussions

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BTW, those were excellent references Marlene, thanks. I found it particularly interesting for the moderators of this forum since they have clearly taken it on themselves to decide what is published here, they have also taken on greatly increased liability. Just something to think about.

Jonna - Mérida, Yucatán

dumois

Jul 11, 2004, 10:02 AM

Post #9 of 19 (803 views)

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Re: [Kip] Internet libel repercussions

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Sorry on my part, estimada Kip, for the misunderstanding. As this forum is dedicated to "general discussion of any aspect of Mexico", I never thought your original message didn't "have anything to do with the Mexican people or Mexico."

Saludos desde Guadalajara,

Dumois

Kip

Jul 11, 2004, 11:01 AM

Post #10 of 19 (787 views)

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Re: [dumois] Internet libel repercussions

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Hi Dumois,

No the problem isn't about Mexico,(only to the extent of the legal aspects of it) or the Mexican people (I'm extremely happy to say!) but it was concerning legal repercussions involving gringos who live in Mexico.

Kip
kip

alex .

Jul 12, 2004, 6:52 AM

Post #11 of 19 (708 views)

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Re: [Kip] other internet mischief

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There is a potential problem lurking for those who use an employer's computer to post on the fora: If a discussion participant feels slighted or offended he may contact the employer to discuss inappropriate use of company resources. Yea, it can get that out of hand in cyberland.
Alex

Esteban

Jul 12, 2004, 11:03 AM

Post #12 of 19 (673 views)

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Re: [Kip] Internet libel repercussions

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I would guess that if YOU live in Mexico and the aforementioned people you talking about live in Mexico, then don't you fall under Mexican law?

Kip

Jul 12, 2004, 12:04 PM

Post #13 of 19 (654 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Internet libel repercussions

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That's pretty much what I was asking. O.K. I'll rephrase that. Does anyone have first hand knowledge of one Gringo in Mexico sueing another Gringo in Mexico, for something that was said on a private forum, based in the states, and the information was proved to be true?

It just seemed a little far fetched to me. There are so many things going on that are so much more important, especially when what was said can be heard by asking just about anyone. Not some dark secret that no one knew about.

I'm not involved in it, I'm just extremely curious, as usual.

Kip
kip

Marlene

Jul 12, 2004, 4:52 PM

Post #14 of 19 (604 views)

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Re: [Kip] Internet libel repercussions

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Quote

especially when what was said can be heard by asking just about anyone

That's normally called gossip. It doesn't stand up in court unless you can substantiate what you say.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Jul 12, 2004, 5:19 PM)

Esteban

Jul 12, 2004, 4:55 PM

Post #15 of 19 (601 views)

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Re: [Kip] Internet libel repercussions

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Your question is not very clear. That's probably why you aren't getting the response you want. Libel is libel in Mexico. It is not a civil case as Marlene pointed out. As for the cases that are in progress in Mazatlan, I have been a part of these cases as a witness but am not privy to any charges nor do I know who is suing who, if in fact there are lawsuits. I have heard rumors but that's it. I have been asked about these cases several times in the past few months but still, I have never seen, in writing, anything legal other than my own testimony. I know there are legal proceedings but that's all I know. If you want to know where you stand, if you live in Mexico, go talk to someone who knows Mexican law. As in the US, ignorance is not an excuse for innocence.

Uncle Donnie

Jul 12, 2004, 8:49 PM

Post #16 of 19 (556 views)

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Re: [Esteban] Internet libel repercussions

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There certainly seems to be a culture of fear being promulgated from the Ajijic area. PUHLEEZE people!

If you want to see how journalists write about suspect community events and scrufulous characters, and how fearlessly the truth can be presented, just go to www.gringogazettenorth.com and read through the back issues.

Remember when everyone was boo-hooin' and blowin' snot because that whole mess of poor innocent unsuspectin' dumbass gringos lost their land in the Baja? These folks tell a very compelling "now you know the rest of the story version". And there's an interesting story about the financial irregularities attributed to a Mexican citizen who is now heading up the fundraising efforts of a major charity over there.

Or you can read my column about one of the local neo-Nazi buffoons who threatened to have me deported. Of course once he comes slithering out from beneath his rock he'll open himself up to those woman-abuse charges again.

The events over in Mazatlan involve matters much more serious than calling someone a bozo or making fun of an individual's idiocy(ies) and probably should be addressed in civil court---except for one incident that would be a criminal matter in most civilized countries. Not that I'm, much past the Will Rogers research stage on most of their ongoing problems, or the fact that my law degree (got a T shirt to prove it) is from Primetime TVU.

Folks, who has an accurate count of the countries of the world into which we might be accepted upon expulsion from another? As I've remarked to many a strongarm goon as I was being escorted to the door---I've been thrown out of better places than this.

Ain't Mexico FUN?

Shameless self-promotion:
http://www.headformexico.com

alex .

Jul 13, 2004, 7:10 AM

Post #17 of 19 (519 views)

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Re: [Uncle Donnie] blowin' snot in the Baja

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Don't you hate it when a horse blows snot? That, and spittin' out the bit, that really chaps my hide. 8<) When folks ask me about the Baja incident , I tell them its like an American Indian living on the reservation: He has his home on a piece of ground alright, but its not his to sell. If someone external to the tribe is dumb enough to" buy " it from him, using some kind of go 'round the law paperwork, well whattaya gonna do? I know its not exactly like that, but close enough.
Alex

(This post was edited by alex . on Jul 13, 2004, 7:15 AM)

Uncle Donnie

Jul 13, 2004, 9:15 PM

Post #18 of 19 (429 views)

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Re: [alex .] blowin' snot in the Baja

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Hey Alex,

Snotty horses are much easier to deal with than some of the folks down here, although not nearly as entertainin'. Spittin' the bit doesn't bug me near as much as one of 'em slobberin' on my sleeve.

Sumbuddy sent me an url from Maz where a whole collection of posts concernin' an alleged insurance scam was takin' place. Among the accusations flyin' were murder (or medical incompetence), parole violations, insurance fraud, assault, identity theft, slander, libel, homosexuality (the old yer a homo taunt that no one should care about), unlawful international flight to avoid prosecution, etc.,etc.,etc.

And all stirred up by one little ole feller. God bless the internet. And hooray for insanity!

Shameless self-promotion:
http://www.headformexico.com

moonfam5

Jul 19, 2004, 7:57 PM

Post #19 of 19 (307 views)

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Re: [dumois] Internet libel repercussions

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Dumois,
I agree. When I am in Mexico, I would never voice my opposition to certain Mexican politics, unless of course I was only with my wife's immediate family who know my opinions anyway. I know that when someone starts railing against MY country, I tell them if they don't like my USA, then get the heck OUT! My wife (a natural born Mexican) says the same thing about the US, she loves the USA because of the opportunities it has afforded her and her family, they own and operate a number of taco shops in Califoirnia.
I think it also goes back to being a good guest. If you don't like the dinner, don't criticize the host, just finish the dinner and politely decline the next invitation.
Saludos,
moonfam5
Wink

The more I learn, I less I know.