How come nobody answered Bubba?

How come nobody answered Bubba?

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On 15 Junio Bubba posted a question about the liability involved with cards issued by Mexican banks. It's odd that there were no responses!

I'm really curious. Unlike most of you I can't understand legal talk in English much less Spanish. I was looking forward to responses. I think it's an important question.

Is there a reason no one responded? Is every bank different, are there differences from one city to another, or does everybody know about the same as I do?

Thanks,
don

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"It's good enough to be true" Gracie Maurahan 1970
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Carron

Jun 21, 2004, 11:23 AM

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Re: [donwilliston] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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It simply didn't apply to my personal circumstances. For the six years we have lived in Mexico we have done as the Romans and paid for everything in cash. We do have a Mexican bank account with an ATM card. We just use the card from time to time to get cash (pesos) from the machine in the lobby of our bank branch several blocks from where we live. We have no use for credit cards. Our ATM card stays home most of the time. Our own personal kind of security.

esperanza

Jun 21, 2004, 12:43 PM

Post #3 of 20 (950 views)

Re: [Carron] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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Ditto.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Jun 21, 2004, 1:58 PM

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Re: [esperanza] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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Ditto here too. I once tried to have the bank pay some of my bills directly but I never received the actual bill so I could check the charges. I quit that. I pay with cash and it's no big deal. Everything is close by, so again, no problem. It's not like I'm working nine to five and don't have the time. I mean, I don't even have a watch. Besides, on bill paying day, I'll usually go eat at a restaurant and celebrate that I have survived another month in Mexico without regret!

Jun 21, 2004, 2:23 PM

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Re: [esperanza] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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I have a question about ATM's that may have been addressed here already. Has the circumstance of inserting your ATM card, the machine giving you NO money, but a withdrawal being recorded by your (foreign) bank happened to anyone recently? I have heard of this happening here in Mazatlàn. The banks have rectified it quickly in the 2 cases I was told about, so that would mean that the Mexican bank must have been in agreement that the machine was out of money or malfunctioned, and no money was actually dispensed, right?

I am asking this because we have been called upon to help with a situation. The foreign bank says the money was withdrawn at an ATM, that based on their investigation with the bank in Mazatlan who told them it had. The person using the card says no money came out on both tries made to withdraw. Both banks say tough luck.

How would one prove that money did not spring forth from the machine? Is there cameras? Sounds like a fun project to help out with, NOT.

Jun 21, 2004, 2:30 PM

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Re: [Marlene] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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I have had this happen three times twice at the bank across from the Puerto Viejo Bar and once at Santander across from the Palacio Municipal. I merely call up Wells Fargo, state the facts and they say within 10 working days the problem will be rectified. So far, I have had no problems with the money being credited to my account. All the banks have to 'balance' the money with the receipts. Unless there is someone actually stealing the funds, and I doubt whether someone would risk their job for $400 USD, honesty seems to be the best policy within the system.

kirksotherwig

Jun 21, 2004, 3:43 PM

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Re: [Marlene] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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I would also be interested in what would happen if the currency the machine gives you is torn or otherwise untenderable. Of course in the U.S. torn currency isn't the issue it is here but I've noticed that generally the currency you get from the machines up north are new bills only, whereas here in Mexico the bills appear to be used.

Maybe if you get a torn bill you should hold it up in front of the camera and then call it in and hope they believe you?
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Posting under this name because my real (and paid) account kirkswig appears to be inoperative.

Adrian

Jun 21, 2004, 4:09 PM

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Re: Torn Bills (was: How come nobody answered Bubba?)

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Kirk raises the interesting point about torn bills. Here in Tampico, the ATM's generally give clean-ish notes but the cashiers give whatever is at hand - bits of scotch tape on a faded piece of pink/red paper that may have been a MN$50 at one time...

Working in the market, I generally take whatever bills folk wish to give me - boy, do we get some raggedy excuses for banknotes! I only bother checking the 200's and 500's closely as our banks (Bancomer and Serfin) don't seem too bothererd about the condition of our deposits.

However, most of our customers are VERY picky about what we give them as change - women more so than men. Most will not accept nicks, tears, clipped corners, scotch tape or any other kind of 'imperfection' on the bills in their change - no matter the condition of the bill they tendered as payment. I have had many an elderly señorita refuse to accept a new plastic MN$20 bill because it was overly creased along the center line and had begun to crack.

Now, in England, if it has the Queen's head and all the other security features then the banks are legally bound to accept it as lawful tender. However, I am told that here in Mexico there was a lengthy period when banks were very finicky about the condition of banknotes and many refused to accept any damaged ones - hence the reluctance of some of our customers to accept the same from us.

If stores won't accept yuor money, say I, then they don't want your business badly enough.

Adrian

Jun 21, 2004, 4:25 PM

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Re: [Esteban] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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In this case it is close to $10,000.00 pesos since the withdrawer(my Cuñada) used the card twice in an attempt to get action when it first malfunctioned. (That wasn't the best course of action at the same machine!) It was during Semana Santa when some of the ATM's were undoubtedly cashless, but I am wondering how it can ever be rectified if the banks firmly state that the money was dispensed.

The owner of the account (my future concuño)(sp?) lives in Europe and is having a difficult time sorting it out from there. Cuñada lives in Mexicali, so guess who gets to sort it out? We have our doubts that if it hasn't been sorted by now, it won't be possible. That is why I threw it out there. It just landed in our laps today.

Jun 21, 2004, 4:46 PM

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Re: [Marlene] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. Where is the bank of origin? The bank where the ATM machine is located will not do anything. I was assuming the actual account was in the US or Canada. If not, if it's a Mexican bank then you have to fill out some paperwork. They have the forms in the bank where the ATM machine was located. So I re-read your post and it appears the bank of origin is located in Europe? If that is so, then that is where the owner of the account will have to make the claim. After the claim is made it will take some time for it all to clear up.

bournemouth

Jun 21, 2004, 5:55 PM

Post #11 of 20 (877 views)

Re: [Marlene] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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I'm not sure of our situation matches your mother-in-law's Marlene but in Sonora once the machine told me that it couldn't dispense cash at this time, try again later. I did indeed try again but next day. When the bank statement came in on our US account it showed two deductions, one for the attempt that yielded nothing. I fled directly to the US bank who said that if the facts were proven, the cash would be restored. On our next trip south I hightailed it right into Banamex, perfectly convinced that it was a Banamex problem. The manager called for the printed roll that apparently each machine contains, went back through it and found the two transactions, one yielding no cash. He made a copy of the roll for us and we provided it to the US bank. The problems apparently occurred in the Visa system in the US which processes these transactions. I think the key in your case might be that the machine is supposed to have doled out 5,000 pesos twice - most cards will only allow 5,000 pesos in a day. A friendly manager in the Mazatlan bank might possibly get out the transaction roll which might help resolve the problem. Good luck - it's never fun beating your head against a wall. And, yes there are cameras that record what is going on but I have a feeling it may be a continuous loop and does just a day. A local young man stole a debit card from somebody, went to the bank, obtained money and it showed up on the film but that was tracked down the same day.

Jun 21, 2004, 7:16 PM

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Re: [Esteban] ATM Problemas

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Quote

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. Where is the bank of origin?

I mentioned it being a foreign bank twice in my original post actually, followed by the fact that the foreign bank was putting the onus on the Mazatlàn bank to sort it out. He has been trying to solve it with his own bank since Semana Santa (April). This is what struck me as odd and one of the reasons I posted it in the first place.

(This post was edited by Marlene on Jun 21, 2004, 7:25 PM)

Jun 22, 2004, 5:39 AM

Post #13 of 20 (798 views)

Re: [Marlene] ATM Problemas

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You are funny Marlene. What does foreign mean when you live in Mexico? It's sort of like asking the time of day when you are on a flight from Europe to Los Angeles. Don't take this as a slam because maybe I'm dense, but I still am not sure where the bank of origin is located? I re-read your post again and I saw "foreign" alright. My foreign bank, Wells Fargo, said the solution would take 10 working days. You might also look into calling them which can be very cheap if you use Dialpad or one of the other VOIP phone systems.

(This post was edited by Esteban on Jun 22, 2004, 6:47 AM)

gpk

Jun 22, 2004, 9:56 AM

Post #14 of 20 (739 views)

Re: [Marlene] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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This happened to me 3 days ago at a Banamex in Irapuato. Banamex said it is a problem for my US bank, my US bank is reviewing its accounts, so I don't know the outcome yet. The amount was 5000 pesos.

Jun 22, 2004, 10:25 AM

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Re: [gpk] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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Oh no! What bad luck! If you can inquire as to the method the Mexican bank uses as to assess the transaction that would be useful to know. I realize it all must balance, but it seems strange that the bank of origin has to go after it and that the Mexican bank doesn't reverse the transaction when they discover the discrepancy in the first place.

Something is not adding up in the case we are helping with, since his daily limit is $6000.00 pesos and yet the Mazatlàn bank is determined that nearly $10,000 pesos were withdrawn in 2 back to back transactions. The non Mexican bank (I believe the Bank of America) originally credited him pending investigation, but after having investigated, reversed the credit based on what the bank in Mazatlàn provided, closed the case and told him to feel free to go after it himself. His bank records are on the way to us. I don't have a good feeling that this will end well but it will be interesting to see what they have to say for future reference.

Jun 22, 2004, 2:12 PM

Post #16 of 20 (690 views)

Re: [Marlene] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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Ah ha! You do have a problem. The Bank of America eh. Well then you need to go to the bank where you withdrew the money and fill out a form. Like I said before, this has happened to me three times and never a problem. It was rectified by Wells Fargo. Maybe your friend needs to change banks.

Jun 22, 2004, 2:43 PM

Post #17 of 20 (688 views)

Re: [Esteban] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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Geez, this is family and future family. What can we do?
Dominico who is Welsh/Italian, works all over the world so I am sure his company picked his bank. Right now he is sitting at his beach house on the Costa del Sol in Spain for summer vacation and just received word that the investigation didn't go his way. Who do you call?? You got it.....us! Let's see how it works out. Santana is pretty good at these things and after all it was his sister who used the non-paying ATM card! She lives in Mexicali so that leaves us here in Mazatlàn to go the last mile.

Thanks to Bournemouth for the input as well.

Jun 22, 2004, 8:20 PM

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Re: [Marlene] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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Asi es la vida hermanita! Quien sabe. Digale a Santana a cononcerme a el bar Tarandas esta noche. Podemos a hablar sobre esta situation! :-) Esta cerca del mercado de flores si el no recuerda, me llama. Andale pues. Esteban

Bubba

Jun 24, 2004, 9:58 AM

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Re: [donwilliston] How come nobody answered Bubba?

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Actually, my inquiry concerned credit cards issued by Mexican banks, not debit cards. I thought it would be nice to have a backup card to our U.S. issued card in case that card was not honored for whatever reason. Then my wife indicated that she had read that, unlike credit cards issued by U.S. banks which strictly limit one's exposure if the card is used fraudently when lost or stolen, the cardholder may be held responsible for all fraud charges if that card were issued by a Mexican bank. I would most certainly not wish to carry a card with no liability limit.

As far as I can tell, no one has yet addressed the above issue.

I have been in Mexico for three years now and always get my cash using a debit card issued by my U.S. bank at an ATM. Three times I have had the machine process the card and not give me any cash. Twice at Bancomer in Ajijic and, when I complained to the manager, she got me my money once and the next time assured me that the trasaction did not record. She was correct.

The third incident happened at the Banamex ATM in Farmacia Guadalajara in Ajijic. When I complained there, I was told it was not their responsibility. I reviewed the account daily for activity and about 12 days later, up popped the charge for $5,000 Pesos. I called my U.S. banker's 800 number and was referred to their VISA investigative unit. I told them I had no proof that I had not received the money but that I definitely had not received any money at all. They looked into it and a few days later my U.S. bank account was credited for the US$ equivalent amount.

There are a couple of things that work in your favor. First, having been a banker for many years, I know that the last thing the operations people servicing those machines want is a cash overage or shortage. If the machine records a cash disbursal and does not disburse cash, then it will be out of balance at day's end and somebody is going home late. Secondly, the VISA people told be that these machines have cameras recording various transactions.

These ATM problems are handled in different ways. Our bank is a major U.S. financial institution and we have made it a point to know our branch management personally. When this unnerving sort of thing happens, it is important to have a friend at the bank if possible.

We have bank and investment accounts in Mexico. I would trust the management at the investment house to help us with any problems. As for our account at Bancomer, even though I speak a little Spanish, I would certainly hate to have to face the language barriers I might run into calling their 800 number. That is not their fault but it is a problem nevertheless.

donwilliston

Jun 24, 2004, 10:54 AM

Post #20 of 20 (535 views)