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talosian

May 31, 2004, 1:56 PM

Post #1 of 18 (753 views)

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Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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I'm planning on arriving in Chapala June 29th. The operative word here is "planning" of course.

I'm going to try to get my FM-3 in Los Angeles but my house in Chapala will not have closed by then. It closes on July 5 or possibly sooner (within a couple of days of my arrival). I will also try to get my Menaje de Casa approved (can I do that at the Embassy in L.A. when I apply for my FM-3?).

I am going to ship my car to El Paso (SWA flys there one way for $116.00 Senior Citizen rete) and hopefully get it from there (in life, timing is everything) without problems and drive it to the border and register it on my FM-3 and then following directions I found here (and my Grarmin Street Pilot III) I will get to GDL. I will have a lot of personal items in the car which I brought with my on the flight to El Paso.

Prior to this, I will have had the items on my M de C (assuming it's approved/issued) sent by air freight to GDL. How long will they keep the shipment in customs for me?

I'll get to GDL and work on getting the personal items on my M de C cleared. Concurrently, I want to arrange to meet a trucker (any referrals for me here? I dea of cost?) who will load the 25 or so boxes (about 30# each) onto a truck and we caravan to my casa in Chapala where everything is unloaded and I have my scheduled nervous breakdown.

Any input, thoughts, constructive criticism, offers to help me in exchange for food are solicited.

I can not say how much help this Board has been.

Thanks all.

Spock.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

marickpayton

May 31, 2004, 2:12 PM

Post #2 of 18 (734 views)

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Re: [talosian] Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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Good luck. Incidentally, do you plan to try and legalize your car in Mexico? If so (and it is newer than 1994), how will you get that done?

talosian

May 31, 2004, 2:17 PM

Post #3 of 18 (732 views)

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Re: [marickpayton] Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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The car I'm bringing is a 1993 Ford Escort with a remanufactured engine (500 miles on it) and I will be having it gone over from front to rear bumper before I bring it down.

Yes, I will probably Nationalize it since I have to bring in another custom car and can't have two in my name.

I'm wondering, what happens if someone else (my ex wife) brings in a car and leaves it with a Notarized Declaration allowing me to drive it? Probably not a good way around the "one car only" rule.

Thanks.

Spock.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

esperanza

May 31, 2004, 4:03 PM

Post #4 of 18 (711 views)

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Re: [talosian] Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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My goodness, Talosian, you have been a busy little bee up there in Gringolandia.

Here are some opinions about your plan--for what they're worth.

1. Do you mean the Mexican consulate in LA? I doubt that there is an embassy, although god knows I have been wrong before.

2. You can apply for a menaje de casa at the same consulate where you apply for your FM3. You can ONLY get a menaje de casa from a consulate, so that has to be done in your place of origin.

3. A car is not 'registered on' an FM3. They are separate and apart from one another. You do not need an FM3 to import your vehicle using the temporary importation process at the border.

4. You need to find out from customs in Guadalajara about how long (or if) they will hold your shipment. This is a crazy way to do your move--IMHO.

5. I know a man who would probably (depending on his time commitments) be able to handle the pick up and delivery for you, but it will cost you. His fee will not be terrible, but ordinarily there are other fees that have to be paid along the way for the privilege of moving your stuff from one municipality to another. You will be moving through three municipalities: Tlajomulco, Ixtlahuacán, and Chapala. This is one reason why most people use a professional moving firm rather than this Rube Goldberg scheme you have cooked up. And I say that with great admiration. If you want me to contact my friend, PM me.

Finally: About your car: are you prepared to pay duty, licensing, insurance, and taxes on it in order to have it nationalized? If you are, then you may be able to jump through those hoops. If you're not, there is no other way to go. The 'amnesty' program for nationalizing (not legalizing; once you obtain the temporary import sticker, your car is perfectly legal in Mexico) pickup trucks older than 10 years has been over with for some time now. There could be another such program for some or all vehicles in the future, and then again there may never be.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

(This post was edited by esperanza on May 31, 2004, 5:52 PM)

Uncle Jack

May 31, 2004, 4:28 PM

Post #5 of 18 (708 views)

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Re: [talosian] Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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I cannot imagine a more convoluted or bizarre plan for a simple move.

You say that you are going to pay to have you car shipped to El Paso.......Why? It's going to cost you a lot of money to get your car to possibly the most inconvenient crossing into Mexico available to you from L.A. to Guad.

You say that you are going to have your "Stuff" air freighted to GDL....Why?....couldn't you think of a more expensive way to move you goods?

Why don't you just go get your FM3 and your M de C at the Mexican consulate in L. A. and then contact someone like Strom Moving here at Lakeside or maybe even Mayflower and let them do the move one Hell of a lot cheaper and take care of the paperwork here on this end.....get in your car and take a leisurely 3 day drive down the west coast of Mexico and stop and smell the cactus blossoms.

uj

Ed and Fran

May 31, 2004, 4:45 PM

Post #6 of 18 (703 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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Tal,

One other comment, since you asked. You said:

"I will also try to get my Menaje de Casa approved (can I do that at the Embassy in L.A. when I apply for my FM-3?). "

It may be different in LA, but my past experience is that you need to actually have your FM-3 in hand when you apply for the MdeC. I'm under the belief that you'll need to make 4 trips to the Consulate. 1. Apply for FM-3, 2. Pick up FM-3 (most Consulates issue docs only in the afternoon, yours may be different), 3. Return with FM-3 and MdeC list and apply for MdeC (again, the Consulates I have dealt with only accepted applications in the mornings), 4. Pick up the MdeC.

Someone with more experience at the LA Consulate may be able to correct this, as it is based on experience at other Consulates. I only offer it as a comment on the plan.

Good luck

Ed

Marlene

May 31, 2004, 4:59 PM

Post #7 of 18 (698 views)

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Re: [talosian] Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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How long will they keep the shipment in customs for me?

When I sent a shipment by air freight to Mazatlán there was no problem with them holding it at the airport for a few days or more. I think it was a week before I got around to picking it up and they charged something like 30 pesos a day once 4 or 5 days had passed. They inspected my 10 or 12 boxes on the spot and sent us on our way. I didn't need a broker because my shipment was deemed duty free. It was not on an M de C, I simply produced a translated list of what was in the boxes, along with a letter signed in the Aduana office and all was well. (Prior to that I arrived in the main office of Aduana to get a letter authorizing my goods as duty free because they were used and not elegible for duty). I think I have posted this before. Suerté.

El Gringo Nuevo

May 31, 2004, 6:44 PM

Post #8 of 18 (671 views)

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Re: [talosian] Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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Quote

From a recent poster.

My furniture has made it across the border! - NEW Quote | Reply | Private Reply

I received a phone call from Kathy at Strom Moving this afternoon to tell me my belongings had made it across the border and is on its way to Ajijic. There was only one bump in the road at the crossing. I failed to list the make, model and serial number of my tiller. They fined me $300 for that little oversight. However, if had not been for Doug Strom doing some fancy footwork, it would have been confiscated. On the bright side, they didn’t catch my duplicate box number. I suppose things always have a way of working themselves out! I can’t say enough good things to say about Strom Moving. They are extremely professional and provide a very personal service to their customers. They were there to hold my hand every step of the way. Kathy was always available to answer all my dumb questions. Doug was at my home here in Corpus to personally supervise the loading of the truck. He was also at the border for the crossing. They will make sure all my belongings will be safely stored at La Floresta. Juan at the storage place was also very helpful. I also want to thank Rolly for the use of the examples of his Menaja on his website. Good, practical examples to follow. Now if I could only get my house to sell, I would be on my way South of the Border!

talosian

May 31, 2004, 8:04 PM

Post #9 of 18 (654 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] Here are my reasons. Help me out here.

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It seems more people feel I am creating problems for myself by how I'm doing my move however let me list some things and maybe I can get some help.

On air shipping my boxes to GDL: My cost including all "surcharges" for gas, etc. comes to a total of $0.95 per pound. My cost for delivery to Customs at the GDL airport will be under $750. When I checked with several shippers for the move from L.A. to Chapala, the least expensive was $2,700 which was the minimun charged for something like 2,000 #. So I'm saving $2,000 which to me is a decent sum. I don't know about the cost of transporting about 25 medium sized boxes from GDL to Chapala but considering it isn't that far, I would think it can't cost that much. And what I will be bringing in the car will be mostly clothing, personal items (linens, etc.) and some small items. I didn't expect to be stopped at any state borders but if I am, I think even though I don't speak Spanish, I can handle any issues by being friendly and showing appreciation for any help given by the authorities. Yes?

My car "problem" is this: I need the Ford Escort for the gas mileage and its mechanical condition and it is an everyday driver. But I can't part with my replica of a 1929 Mercedez Gazelle which I really love (I have posted a picture of it here before). So it seems Nationalizing the Ford is the only want to get the Gazelle in legally as a second car. If anyone knows another way or has an idea, I'm all ears (well, eyes).

I am coming alone so to get the Ford to Chapala, I would have to drive it all the way from Los Angeles which using www.mapblast.com or www.mapblast.com gives me something like a minimum 5 day drive. Take into account I'm not the best driver (I can get road hypnosis easily) I figured it would not be that much more to ship the car to El Paso and fly SWA one-way. I figure the savings in time is worth the added cost and some slight insurance so my drive is only something like 2 nights from El Paso to Chapala.

As I said, I don't can not think of another way but I will appreciate any more help or constructive criticism.

Thanks.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Papirex

May 31, 2004, 9:49 PM

Post #10 of 18 (633 views)

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Re: [talosian] Here are my reasons. Help me out here.

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http://www.mexconnected.com/mex_/travel/mking/mktramites.html

Read the article the link above leads to. It will give you some idea of how, and what you will be facing to nationalize a foreign registered car in Mexico. You may have a much harder time, or it may be just as easy as achieving permanent world peace to nationalize your Ford.

It might be more practical to think about buying a Mexican plated car to use as your “everyday” car, return your Ford to The U.S., and then bring your Gazelle in on a temporary import permit, keeping it here permanently under your FM3 status.

Since you have already put a rebuilt engine in your Ford, it might be worthwhile to consider buying a similar Ford and having a local shop swap engines with a locally purchased car. Mexican mechanics hourly rates are very reasonable.

As for having your ex-wife bring the Gazelle in on a temporary import permit, that would take a big commitment on her part. She would need to get an FM3 visa, and renew it every year, as the vehicle temporary import permit is valid only as long as her visa is valid. If she brings it in using a FMT tourist visa, the car’s import permit is void when she leaves the country. If she brings it in using a FM3 visa, the car’s import permit is void if she fails to renew the FM3 visa. This could get a little dicey when renewing Insurance, etc. Her name might also need to be on the title, Although there are exceptions to this, leaving your name on the title might lead to the suspicion that you are trying to skirt the law limiting you to importing one vehicle only.

Besides certain close family members, a person with the same immigration status as the importer can drive a car brought in to Mexico on a temporary import permit. It might be possible to have her import the car for you, but I think a lot would depend on whether your relationship is good enough that she would want to make the commitment required. You also might be setting yourself up to have your baby confiscated if the authorities conclude that the car is really for your use.

Rex

"The supreme happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved" - Victor Hugo

esperanza

Jun 1, 2004, 6:12 AM

Post #11 of 18 (597 views)

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Re: [talosian] Here are my reasons. Help me out here.

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The potential problems with this Rube Goldberg move are infinite. I'm not going to address the USA portion of the trip; I think you're nuts to ship your car to El Paso, but hey--to each his own.

The portion of the trip through Mexico is another story. First of all, the route you are planning is definitely not the route of choice, but it's better than coming through Nogales. If you're counting on your computerized navigational thingy to get you from Ciudad Juárez to Lake Chapala, beware. A computer won't understand the difference, for example, between Route 54 and Route 57 coming southwest toward Guadalajara. But lemme tell you--YOU will sure know the difference. Do a search on here to read all about it.

You mentioned being stopped at state borders; I'm assuming you're talking about Mexican state borders. That's a little puzzling: although certainly there are some puestos de revisión at state borders, no one there will care about your personal items. If you find yourself at one with an eager-beaver checker, he may poke around briefly in your clothing and tchochkes, but those checkpoints are for other things, such as guns and drugs and diseased animals.

The two places where you will run the chance of being thoroughly inspected and required to pay duty are (1) as you cross the border--where you are required to hit the red light/green light--and (2) at the 30 kilometer inspection station, where you are required to show your ID and other papers (which will likely include your car papers) and once again hit the red light/green light. If you get the red light, be prepared for the possibility that you will be asked to unpack your entire carload. This seldom happens, but once is enough.

The idea that you can, without Spanish, talk your way out of whatever you think you might need to talk your way out of with the aduana is naive bordering on foolish. Even with excellent Spanish it's not usually possible. You know the old saying in English, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."? You know how that's a joke? It's equally a joke in Mexico. Mexican customs authorities will be gracious and polite, but it's all business--their business, not yours.

Re-read my last post. Someone with a small truck is going to have to pick up your 25-30 boxes at the Guadalajara airport. That person is going to have to haul your things to Chapala, which as you accurately pointed out is a short distance--about 45 minutes to your new house. Nevertheless, as I mentioned before, that person will have to drive through three separate municipalities--Tlajomulco, Ixtlahuacán, and Chapala. Life in Mexico is not like life in the USA, Talosian. Each municipality has its own regulations about what can move through it, when, and by what route. There is high potential that the driver of your load of stuff will be stopped by the police in any or all of those municipalities and made to pay fees for the right to continue moving your load through the municipality in question. These fees are non-negotiable if you want your truckload to keep on trucking--although they are variable, if you get my drift.

The last person I know who insisted that his way was going to save him a pile of money ended up spending a little more than the move estimate in getting his stuff down here his way. After you're here I'll tell you the whole story; it happened just about a month ago.

I strongly recommend that before you start your trip, you burn a CD of every known artist who ever sang that classic, "(I Did It) My Way" (and don't forget the numerous versions in Spanish). At least you'll have something appropriate to listen to in your car as you inch up and down Route 54 toward Guadalajara.

All that aside, there is every possibility that you will hook up with your car in El Paso in a snap, you will cross the border and find helpful customs officials who will welcome you and wave you on your way, you'll find excellent and inexpensive motels for your two nights along the road to Chapala, you will pick Route 57, your air shipment of boxes will arrive without a hitch, be stored till you can retrieve them, and you'll toddle on down to Vista del Lago with nobody the wiser and no fees paid. From my mouth to God's ear, Talosian. Buen viaje.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

talosian

Jun 1, 2004, 6:45 AM

Post #12 of 18 (596 views)

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Re: [esperanza] I'm not as stupid as I may seem.

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First, I appreciate your take on my situation however while you point out what I'm sure are a lot of negative scenarios, you don't give me some alternatives. The only thing I can pick up is that it would be better to simply hire a moving company and give them a (blank) cheque. This is a very easy solution for those of us who live the "lifestyle of the rich and famous" of which I do not number myself as one.

And since my car must, as I am told, be driven across the border by Moi, I'm simply trying to avoid driving it there from Los Angeles. The difference in cost between shipping it to Texas and then getting it and driving it myself, is only a couple hundred dollars and is a savings of at least two or three days driving, motels (I can't drive straight through) gasoline, food and any other unexpected expenses which can crop up.

And as to the route of my travel, I have taken full advantage of the plethora of information on this Board from those who have "been there and done that" before. I did not intend to blindly follow my Garmin (GPS receiver) and/or take the mountain route. My way was to follow the toll roads as at least two posters have mapped out in detail and I found in the Archives which I searched.

I know government employees, any government employees from any country, are usually not there to help me so I will have a fair number of engraved portraites of dead American presidents in my pockets (not to take out too many at once) to show my appreciation for any assistance given me and my belongings on the road from the airport to my casa. I don't think it will total near $2,000. As to customs, I can handle inconveniences of having my boxes searched, and that is what I would consider it, an inconvenience and not a disaster. And I have read stories here about people who have sailed through customs without a hitch or delay. I may have a "customs angel" with me - - - who knows? Just kidding on this one.

And finally, you use the word "tchochkes and I'm wondering why you used that and some other non-secular terms in your responses to me. I am much better versed in English and a smattering of Spanish and a few words in French (as well as reasonably fluent in ASL) than Jewish idioms.

Anyway, I do need and appreciate not only constructive criticism but alternative suggestions which are appreciated.

Take care and "Live Long and Prosper."

Spock/David
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

esperanza

Jun 1, 2004, 7:12 AM

Post #13 of 18 (587 views)

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Re: [talosian] I'm not as stupid as I may seem.

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You already know the alternatives, Talosian. Either sell it all and buy new when you get down here, ship it via a moving company now, or wait for a moving company that has a partial load coming and see if you can get a price break. Maybe the ex-wife can keep the stuff in storage for you till then.

I didn't address the USA portion of your trip. As I said, to each his own.

It's good that you are taking the advice of folks who have been there/done that, as you said. That's the best advice there is.

I would strongly advise not taking those greenbacks out of your pocket for the customs guys. Bad move.

As to your final paragraph, it's just the way I talk. If we meet in person sometime, you'll see. I'm the same in real life as I am here, kind of a wise-ass know-it-all.

I could have written several other words rather than tchochkes, but that's the one I picked. Before my fingers hit the keyboard, tiliches and chácharas ran through my head, but I figured since you are not the only one who reads these posts, tchochkes would be understood by more people than the Spanish words which mean the same thing.

Qué la Virgen te cubre con su manta en tu viaje.

http://www.mexicocooks.typepad.com

Uncle Jack

Jun 1, 2004, 7:22 AM

Post #14 of 18 (582 views)

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One other suggestion........

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.....you'd best bring a hat. Your head could get a terrible sunburn.

http://members.aol.com/...squet/talosian2.html

uj

talosian

Jun 1, 2004, 7:25 AM

Post #15 of 18 (580 views)

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Re: [esperanza] I'm not as stupid as I may seem.

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I will ask about partial loads though I don't know how many moves there are to the Lakeside area in any given day, week or month. Costs nothing to ask though.

I did NOT intend to take the $$ out for Customs, rather if there is a "traffic stop" from the airport to my casa by the local Policia which was what I picked up from another post.

If you're a "wise-ass, know it all" we'll hit it off fine <smile>.

Maybe I can find someone to drive with me and that would help greatly but I still don't like a long drive.

Thanks.
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

Carron

Jun 1, 2004, 5:35 PM

Post #16 of 18 (487 views)

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Re: [talosian] Here is my (tentative) final plan. Will it work?

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All your plans give me a headache. If you think such intricate plan ahead measures are going to make your move to Mexico a success, please think again. How much time have you actually spent down here? The Mexican mentality is more of a take-what-comes and handle it later. Does the culture here really suit your plan it down to the last detail attitudes? What happens if it all falls apart as you cross the border? There are no hard and fast rules. Everything is a crap shoot. There is no way you can possibly plan ahead for your move. Are you flexible? Adaptable? Speak enough Spanish to warm chatter yourself through many unplanned situations? I wish you luck...and I think luck more than planning is what you must hope for.

Just do it, stop talking about it, and after you have been living in Mexico for a few weeks, months, years, post an update and let us know how you are doing.

talosian

Jun 1, 2004, 6:50 PM

Post #17 of 18 (462 views)

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Re: [Carron] How to cure your headache from my posts and avoid more.

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Take two aspirins and in the morning don't read any more of my posts/questions.

I don't think asking questions and planning ahead is a bad thing.

Most of the input I have received here has been positive and helpful, as I would/will give if and/or when I know something and can help someone else. I believe the only stupid question is the one I don't ask.

And you are right, I only spent 9 days in Mexico and decided I wanted to live there. And so because I made the decision and paid the money, I want to make the best of it and one way I can do that is to ask those more knowledgeable than I. If I am faulted for that, so be it.

If I can avoid problems, I prefer that route to going blindly into something and handling the consequences "later." If that's a bad attitude, I guess I will have to live with it as that is one of the things I am bringing with me.

Am I "flexible & adaptable", I think so, yet I still prefer to know as much as I can with the understanding it may still not be enough and may not work the way I want/plan.

I will update what happens and I will continue to ask for help in life so long as I live. I don't know near everything. But your input is still appreciated since I feel it's important to know how others see me and you have given another date point for me to consider. For that I thank you.

David/Spock
"When all logical explanations have failed, we must look to the illogical for the answer.

(This post was edited by jennifer rose on Jun 1, 2004, 7:18 PM)

mkdutch

Jun 1, 2004, 9:36 PM

Post #18 of 18 (430 views)

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Re: [talosian] How to cure your headache from my posts and avoid more.

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OK...
you have a few comments here from those who think you are nuts. Whatever!

As regards the drive down. My husband and I have not traveled the route from el Paso, but we have made several trips through Nogales, and one through Laredo.

The route from Nogales is not too bad, in my opinion. We leave from Las Vegas, and spend the night in Tuscon. Then drive to Ciudad Obregon (about 400 miles) the first day in Mexico, then on to Mazatlan (another 400 miles) the second day. Then on to Guad, and the Lakeside area, about 300 miles. The only bad road is between Mazatlan and Tepic. The road itself is OK, but it is a narrow, two lane, winding mountain road, and no shoulders. If you are not an agressive "passer" like my husband, it will take a while driving behind all the trucks you encounter on that section. When we drove that way, two weeks ago, we had no problems. We got the green light at the Nogales border crossing, and another green light at the place where you have to stop to get your car import stuff taken care of. We were not searched anywhere else, but were "waved through" other stops near Mexican state borders.

When we came through Laredo last year, our Mexican drive was much shorter. We stayed the night in a town called (I think) Matehuala (or something). It is about 1/2 way between Laredo and Guad, and the total trip is about 650 miles. The roads are very good, even though some are only two lane, they mostly are new and have shoulders.

I think the hardest thing you will have to do is figure out if you can "legalize" your car. If you get that done, the rest should be easy.

Occasionally I have seen the P.F.P. (federales) searching trucks on the road between the Guad airport and Chapala. But that was usually on the side of the road FROM Chapala TO Guad. And even if a truck with your stuff from the airport was stopped, if you have the appropriate paperwork from customs, I don't see that as a problem. I think they are mostly looking for drugs. But then, you just never know.....there are still some police that think they should be able to supplement their income with "mordidas".

Good Luck
Kay