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Bubba

Sep 14, 2004, 10:36 AM

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Fresh Produce in Mexico

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A thread on another Mexico Connect forum has touched tangentially upon this topic but it strikes me that the subject of the availabilty of high quality produce in Mexico vs. that availability in the United States is one that spawns what I will call exotic myth enhancement.

When I was a kid, I never traveled outside of my native deep south so, when I finally gained my freedom, I became a compulsive world traveler. For the first time in my life, I experienced the wonders of exotic foods from Ethipoia to India and it was like a new awakening. For a young and inexperienced person, the excitement of observing, smelling and feeling exotic lands and tasting their foods is transcendent. Later, one views life in far flung lands through a jaded prism. The tomato first purchased in a Paris street market or the fish consumed in Provence on the sea is always better than the mundane every day comestible purchased at the local Safeway in Fresno. This is simply human nature.

But, now, I have to propose, although not so seriously as to start a riot, that there are many among us whose taste buds and eyesight have become less acute upon their arrival in Mexico and, therefore, even though the produce available here, either in supermarkets or street stalls, is, generally speaking, demonstrably inferior to like foodstuffs available in metropolitan areas of the United States in both taste and quality , these folks are convinced that these products are of higher quality than those available from whence they came. Thus, we have the amusing spectacle of local tianguis or municipal market vendors heading to the nearest wholesale market early in the morning and buying commercially grown produce to sell to star crossed gringos walking about in funky surroundings and admiring the same products they would view with disdain at WalMart on the same day.

On the other forum, a poster speaks of the fact that, in the United States, tomatoes are bred for tough skins and picked green so as to facilitate harvesting, shipping and enhanced shelf life. Is there some sort of myopia suffered by NOB expats that they cannot see that Mexico emulates these same practices and that these are the products they are purchasing in the so-called farmers' markets throughout Mexico?

Now, I will posit a theory that some of you will not like. This is a form of racism. You will grow out of this when you hold people in your adopted land to the same standard you held those in your native land. You will know that you are approaching this milestone when you begin to notice how dreadful their tomatoes are down here.

And, I haven't even brought up the subject of the generally bad quality of meats available here.



johanson


Sep 14, 2004, 11:34 AM

Post #2 of 25 (1359 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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I'm told that the best apples are grown in northern states like WASHINGTON. The trouble is, here in WA we can't get these high quality apples. All we get are seconds. The better quality apples are exported. Yes, that's right, I can get a better quality WA apple in Jalisco than I can in my local WA grocery store.

Could it be that many of the high quality vegetables grown in Jalisco are exported leaving the seconds for locals, just like in the rest of the world?

I know that I have never tasted better berries than those grown at the West end of Lake Chapala, from farms that export their product to other parts of the world. Overly ripe berries, rather than being thrown out, are offered to the public at a discount.

DISCLAIMER: I do not claim to be an expert about anything having to do with food other than the Burger King Whopper


jennifer rose

Sep 14, 2004, 11:43 AM

Post #3 of 25 (1354 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Maybe you're not shopping in the right places, Bubba. I regularly find great produce at Costco and Walmart. And meat? Have you tried SuSazon http://www.susazon.com/? It's even better than Costco's meat.


Bubba

Sep 14, 2004, 11:54 AM

Post #4 of 25 (1349 views)

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Re: [johanson] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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When we lived on Mobile Bay, we had to rush to the shrimp boats when they came in because, otherwise, the best shrimp were destined for Chicago. Now that we live on Lake Chapala, we find that the best raspberries in North America are grown just south of Jocotepec, about 10 miles away and all but seconds go immediately to the United States (The seconds are pretty damn good by the way and they make a great raspberry brandy with the rejects). When we visit the Loire Valley in France, the only reason we are able to purchase the white asaparagus or frais de bois from the local farmers or gatherers when is brought in from the field or forest is because the farmers/gatherers are lifelong friends of my wife's 80 year old mother. My father-in-law was with the agricultural ministry in France and, for that reason, I have tasted the best Calvados moonshine on the planet that came from the farmer's reserve and was probably proferred as a bribe. I could go on and on but, suffice it to say, that the produce or meat or seafood goes where the money is. I live a few hours from the fishing fleets at Manzanillo or Puerto Vallarta but I promise you I can get better seafood in Des Moines than I can get here.

This gets back to my proposition. The produce and seafood and meats available at market here in this land of abundance leave something to be desired. That has less to do with the products themselves than with the delivery infrastructure. You can kid yourself with those rose colored glasses but that does not change reality.


Bubba

Sep 14, 2004, 12:19 PM

Post #5 of 25 (1335 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Jennifer:

Now wait a minute. I also love the meat at Costco and Susazon. A month does not go by that I have not savored Susazon's meats and Cafe Martinique espresso coffee. I regularly buy the filet strip and rack of lamb at Costco in Guadalajara. I also admire the true Spanish chorizo, Serrano ham, Spanish olive oil, Chilean wines and French aperitifs at Europea and Goitti in Guadalajara. My olives and cornichons and foie gras all come from delis in Guadalajara. Note that all of these products are imported and damned expensive. The subject is Mexican produce and meats which are, at best, marginal. The cult that has grown up around the funky street and municipal markets that proliferate around Mexico is the subject of my rant. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this marketing system. I'm asking starry-eyed expats to stop deluding themselves that the quality of the products sold at these outlets is superior. Folks, taste with your tongue, not your wistful and prejudiced mind.

I believe we are on the same track, Jennifer.


Caarina12

Sep 14, 2004, 1:04 PM

Post #6 of 25 (1316 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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I live in San Diego and spend a lot of time in Baja with my husband's family. I have had this very conversation with my in-laws in Baja California. I am appalled at the produce in Baja in the supermarkets and tianguis. In your local Gigante, you will find wilted, rotting food in many cases. Just try to find a good head of Romaine Lettuce for your Ceasar Salad (first made in Baja)! Baja exports all their good produce to the US. We have learned to make adjustments like buying olives, asparagus and other items from the growers who often set up just outside the big supermarkets or on roadside stands in Ensenada. We also call on extended family members who have ranchos outside of town to get better food.

My experience in Central Mexico has been way better than Baja. When I was in Mexico City recently, I did find the produce at the SuperWalmart far superior to what I can get in Baja. My Mexican friends from Queretaro used to be broccoli farmers, and also complained about the lack of quality produce in markets and supermarkets. Consquently, they grew their own vegetables.


abq

Sep 14, 2004, 1:07 PM

Post #7 of 25 (1315 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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In San Miguel, there are a couple of stores that sell fresh, organic localy grown produce. The prices are a little higher but worth the cost.


Georgia


Sep 14, 2004, 4:08 PM

Post #8 of 25 (1271 views)

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Re: [Bubba] True Spanish Chorizo

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Where? I usually have friends bring in Gaspar's Chorizo which is manufactured in a Portuguese area of Massachusetts. But true spanish chorizo???? I'll go there now.... just tell me where! What brand?


Georgia


Sep 14, 2004, 4:12 PM

Post #9 of 25 (1270 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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I have often found the wilted offerings at Lakeside stores and markets to be unappetizing and limit my purchases there to onions, garlic, oranges, jicama and cucumbers. The rest I buy either from (a) street vendors who seem to have fresher stuff, epecially cilantro (b) WalMart off Vallarta which has an awesome produce section.

Did you know that those little red potatoes you buy around here are most often little white potatoes that are dyed red?


Bubba

Sep 14, 2004, 5:47 PM

Post #10 of 25 (1243 views)

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Re: [Georgia] True Spanish Chorizo

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Georgia, Darlin',

These thangs change day to day but here is what I would do. Drive to Europea in any of their many branches in Guadalajara or Goitti on Mexico Avenue and buy true Spanish chorizo or Jamon Serrano that will blow your mind. There are other places to buy these precious things including this fantastic Spanish place on Avenida de Americas where you can also find a Spanish Omelete (Tortilla de Espanol) but Bubba's mind is not up to remembering this.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 14, 2004, 5:49 PM)


Bubba

Sep 14, 2004, 5:53 PM

Post #11 of 25 (1237 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Georgia:

You are OK in my book.

Bama Bubba


Adrian

Sep 14, 2004, 6:26 PM

Post #12 of 25 (1223 views)

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Re: [Caarina12] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Amen to that!

The best produce here in Tampico is at HEB and WalMart. The only thing the downtown mercados are good for is basic veggies (onions, carrots etc) and seafood (Tampico, being a Gulf port city, is an exception).

Having watched the 'fresh' meat being unloaded, prepared and stored in the market I was relieved to find that my in-laws thought it disgusting too. The market's selection of fruits is OK but nothing fantastic. It seems that the supply lines at the the supermercados are much more organised.

Now, if we could just refrigerate the entire dairy supply line and start producing blue cheeses.....

Adrian


Marlene


Sep 14, 2004, 7:25 PM

Post #13 of 25 (1204 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Quote
Did you know that those little red potatoes you buy around here are most often little white potatoes that are dyed red?

They dye potatoes in Lake Chapala area? Why?


Georgia


Sep 14, 2004, 7:38 PM

Post #14 of 25 (1198 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Actually, they do it at abastos market in Guadalajara because people want red potatoes. Voila!


Don


Sep 14, 2004, 8:21 PM

Post #15 of 25 (1190 views)

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Re: [Georgia] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Your correct, they do dye some small potatoes red. But, they do grow the real things in Tapalpa. Possibly the demand is more that the production. Our tianguis sometimes have both for sale.


(This post was edited by Don on Sep 14, 2004, 8:22 PM)


Esteban

Sep 15, 2004, 9:45 AM

Post #16 of 25 (1128 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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I buy freshly butchered filete in the market and you can cut it with a fork. I usually buy the whole Filete which runs 80 to 90 pesos a kilo. I don't see how it can get any better than that. As far as seafood goes, I can go down to the fish market here and buy FRESH/daily dorado for 90 pesos a kilo fileted. The story about the veggies is close to true but occasionally, you can find some truck farm produce that is brought to town and sold on the street and the quality is superb. I think tomatoes have undergone the biggest change. Not only have they been developed for shipping but for machine picking. A good sweet vine ripened homegrown tomato is something to die for.


Carol Schmidt


Sep 15, 2004, 12:25 PM

Post #17 of 25 (1080 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Since I believe it was my quote in the other thread that you are talking about, please reread my original post in which I did not, I repeat, did not say that Mexican produce is better than U.S. produce.

I said that my lifestyle and eating here are far superior than that in the U.S. because I eat more fresh fruit and veggies and walk more, not that the produce is better here.

I am not walking around with racist/starstruck eyes, I said that much of the produce that is sold in LA in particular looks fantastic but doesn' t have nearly the taste of the fruits and veggies we grew in Michigan on the farm. And I said that a particular tomato here in Mexico isn't better than a tomato found in a US supermarket, it may be the same crop, it's simply that I eat more fresh fruits and veggies here.

It's much more conducive to make a lot of fresh salsa (to use instead of fatty mayonnaise or gravy or other sauces) when little, slightly blemished Roma tomatoes are 5 pesos a kilo or whatever the price is in the tianguis at that stall, than when perfect Beefsteak tomatoes cost $1.99 a pound in the States. They can sell for $2.99 a pound in some gourmet U.S.produce sections. It only takes a second to cut off a spot on a slightly blemised Roma here, and I think they taste better anyway.

Now if you're comparing anything to the taste of a giant vine-ripened Beefsteak I used to pick off the plant in Michigan and carry immediately into the kitchen and slather with Hellman's mayonnaise on white bread, there's obviously no comparison. But then the salsa I make has 5 calories a tablespoon on a 40-calorie corn tortilla, compared to 100 calories a tablespoon for the mayonnaise on the nutritionally useless 75-calorie piece of white bread. That's the difference I was talking about.

I buy a huge amount of fresh fruits and veggies each week at the tianguis and eat it all in various ways, for maybe $12-16 U.S. a week, compared to having to ration out my food budget at a U.S. produce section and spend far more for far less, no matter how good the quality. And I had to walk a lot to buy it, too, which is far better than driving to the supermarket in the States.

Carol Schmidt


Bubba

Sep 15, 2004, 2:34 PM

Post #18 of 25 (1055 views)

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Re: [Carol Schmidt] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Carol:

I was not responding to your post. I know exactly what you mean about the farm fresh Michigan produce as my memories of the same thing in the Alabama of my youth are similar. I certainly did not mean to accuse you or anyone else of racist tendencies. I suppose I have been somewhat spoiled by organic farmers' markets in Northern California where truly superb produce is sold.

Now, I have some good news that is old news to a few posters hereabouts and whose previous posts alerted me to this great fish monger at the Wednesday tianguis in Ajijic. I just bought the most beautiful shrimp and red snapper there this morning - never frozen and smelling freshly of the sea. Thank you Esperanza and others for helping me discover this treasure. I envy Esteban his proximity to fresh seafood in Mazatlan but that envy is mitigated by this fellow who brings this incredible seafood to us directly from Puerto Vallarta. So, here I am with the impeccably fresh spinach I bought along with the great shrimp and snapper and homemade cheese from the Ajijic tiaguis and who the hell am I to complain. Not only is the food excellent but I know the weather in Ajijic tomorrow will be incomparable as always and if I had retired to the Alabama coast, the remnants of my retirement villa on that Coast would just be passing Montgomery at 3:00AM tomorrow on their way to becoming fixtures on the Appalachian foothillls south of Birmingham. Thank you Jesus and pass the biscuits.


(This post was edited by Bubba on Sep 15, 2004, 3:14 PM)


Camille

Sep 19, 2004, 9:24 AM

Post #19 of 25 (944 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Costco in Guadalajara sells racks of lamb????!!!! I called Costco in Houston before I drove down last time, just to see if maybe I could add to the ice chest before I hit the coast, and was told Costco does not sell lamb at any Mexican location. If indeed they do, I will certainly stop in next time through.
Is there a Costco in Aguascalientes?
I'd appreciate ANY information on good fresh food sources between Laredo and Sayulita!
Give me another year, now that the house is built, and I will have enough garden area developed to offer organic herbs and salad greens in the Vallarta area.
Camille


jardinero viejo

Sep 19, 2004, 9:39 AM

Post #20 of 25 (939 views)

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Re: [Camille] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Camille -

We are looking at property outside San Pancho or outside La Penita on which to grow organic produce for the Vallarta restaurant market and for local sale. The operation will be co-op among several family groups in the area. Similar to what Daniel is doing in Tepic with Capeline coffee. In fact, Daniel has asked to join in on this.

We have enjoyed our experience with similar work in Todos Santos and N. Calif. , and feel it will be equally do-able in this area.

Anytime you'd like to swap ideas or stories, please feel free to e-mail me.

Adios for now.....
------------------------------------------------------------

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the public."
Theodore Roosevelt
------------------------------------------------------------


jennifer rose

Sep 19, 2004, 9:40 AM

Post #21 of 25 (939 views)

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Re: [Camille] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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At http://www.costco.com.mx/sucursales.html one can find the Costco branches throughout the Republic. Indeed, there is one in Aguascalientes.

And indeed rack of lamb, frozen and of superb quality, is available at Costco, although the offerings may vary from branch to branch.


esperanza

Sep 19, 2004, 10:06 AM

Post #22 of 25 (924 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Bubba, now that you have expanded your fish horizons, buy some chicken from the chicken monger at the very bottom of the Ajijic tianguis--right across from the fish guy. It's the best chicken I've eaten in either the USA or Mexico--and France, Greece, and Italy too, for that matter. The breasts are sublime and inexpensive, either whole or boneless/skinless. I'm not a leg person myself, so I can't vouch for the dark meat, but hey, they come off the same chickens, right?

I have to miss the tianguis this week, poor me. No blackberry yoghurt, no pechuga de pollo, no...*sigh*. Whatever will I do?




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johanson


Sep 19, 2004, 11:52 AM

Post #23 of 25 (910 views)

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Re: [Camille] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Camille, you wrote, "I called Costco in Houston ............... and was told Costco does not sell lamb at any Mexican location". And this may be true. However just one week ago in Costco store 662 (Burlington, WA) I had a clerk go on line to see what type of televisions they had available in the Guadalajara Costco store (703 ?). He went on line and told me that the Guadalajara store did not carry TVs or computers.

When I explained to him that in fact they did, he suggested that maybe the US and Mexican coding systems were incompatible, and the perhaps any time you went on line to check an item # that was different than that used Mexico that it would show up as zero inventory.

So I don't know if Costco Mexico carries Lamb or not, but don't believe what you are told if the person helping you went on line and then did a search for products using US ID numbers.


Bubba

Sep 19, 2004, 1:10 PM

Post #24 of 25 (889 views)

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Re: [johanson] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Camille:

Go to the WalMart SchmalMart thread on this same forum for an answer to your question. Costco not only sells lamb but perhaps the best rack of lamb available at retail anywhere. That doesn't mean the store you go into will necessarily have it that day but they do carry great lamb and other meats generally speaking.

As Pete indicates, never expect to go into either WalMart or Costco or Sears or J.C. Penney or any other U.S. chain outlet with what appears to be the same chain as here in Mexico. They won't have the same ownership or management despite appearances. They haven't a clue as to what is stocked in Mexico. You may as well ask them if they have any outlets on Mars.

In fact, when you have lived here a while you will be amazed at the profound and widespread ignorance about Mexico that is common in the United States. And about Iraq, France, Burkino Faso, Mississippi and Canada as well for that matter. To say nothing of Jersey City. Ignorance may be bliss but ignorance when armed to the teeth and tending toward self-righteousness is dangerous. Mexico will lower your blood pressure even if you don't find your lamb rack.


Carol Schmidt


Sep 19, 2004, 8:10 PM

Post #25 of 25 (854 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Fresh Produce in Mexico

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Wonderful lamb is available at the Costcos in Celaya and Queretaro.

Carol Schmidt
 
 
 
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