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gpkgto

Jan 9, 2011, 12:14 PM

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Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on Spanish forum]

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The Mexican public education system is as corrupt as every other part of the government. Many teachers are poorly trained--large percentages fail their required exam--yet keep their jobs because of one of the stongest and probably most powerful unions in Mexico. Government officals cave in to the union leader on every issue and most Mexican students receive worse educations every year.


(This post was edited by tonyburton on Jan 9, 2011, 3:27 PM)



Casa

Jan 9, 2011, 1:42 PM

Post #2 of 12 (4218 views)

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Corruption in eduction

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The Mexican public education system is as corrupt as every other part of the government. Many teachers are poorly trained--large percentages fail their required exam--yet keep their jobs because of one of the stongest and probably most powerful unions in Mexico. Government officals cave in to the union leader on every issue and most Mexican students receive worse educations every year.

Could not agree with you more…..except to maybe say MORE corrupt and the most powerful union

Do you remember Hummergate?
High-profile labor leader Elba Esther Gordillo has sparked outrage after lavishing 59 Hummer H3 SUVs on top union officials at a time when Mexico is reeling from the global economic crisis.
Gordillo unveiled the first dozen vehicles Saturday during a convention of her 1.6-million-member National Education Workers Union in the northern city of Hermosillo.


Another interesting article here


(This post was edited by tonyburton on Jan 9, 2011, 3:27 PM)


gpkgto

Jan 9, 2011, 4:05 PM

Post #3 of 12 (4194 views)

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Re: [Casa] Corruption in eduction

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What she steals to give to others is nothing compared with what she staels for herself and her family.


raferguson


Jan 11, 2011, 12:14 PM

Post #4 of 12 (4042 views)

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Re: [gpkgto] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on Span

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Teachers are allowed to sell their position when they retire, I understand. Reforms meant that they could only sell their position to relatives. The new teacher has a year or two to get qualified.

Hard to imagine.

Richard


http://www.fergusonsculpture.com


La Isla


Jan 11, 2011, 12:47 PM

Post #5 of 12 (4039 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on

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Teachers are allowed to sell their position when they retire, I understand. Reforms meant that they could only sell their position to relatives. The new teacher has a year or two to get qualified.

Hard to imagine.

Richard


In one sense I am, of course, horrified that public school teachers can sell their positions, but having lived in Mexico for awhile, sadly, I am not that surprised.


Marlene


Jan 12, 2011, 5:21 PM

Post #6 of 12 (3957 views)

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Re: [raferguson] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on

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Actually, it's only tenured positions which can be reallocated. It's called a "plaza". Not all positions are tenured. This from the last link Casa posted, explains it in a nutshell.


Quote
What an employee of the Mexican public schools aspires to is a plaza, which is a tenured position. Once he or she has that plaza, it is almost impossible to fire a teacher. The plaza can be inherited by his or her son or daughter, or even sold.



(This post was edited by Marlene on Jan 12, 2011, 5:21 PM)


RickS

Jan 12, 2011, 5:26 PM

Post #7 of 12 (3952 views)

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Re: [Marlene] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on

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What could possibly be the rational behind this practice???


Rolly


Jan 12, 2011, 5:32 PM

Post #8 of 12 (3948 views)

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Re: [RickS] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on

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the teachers' union

Rolly Pirate

E-visit me http://Rollybrook.com
On Facebook as Rolly Brook


La Isla


Jan 12, 2011, 6:55 PM

Post #9 of 12 (3928 views)

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Re: [Rolly] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on

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the teachers' union


Here's my question: is this a rational rationale?


YucaLandia


Jan 13, 2011, 6:36 PM

Post #10 of 12 (3849 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on

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Is it any less rational than a country that has spent the most per pupil for the past 30 years, producing students who rank the lowest in the developed world, equivalent to the Bulgarians. Is it rational to pay an average salary of $55K per year to individuals who have the lowest entrance and exit scores of all professionals entering and leaving universities, generally equivalent to the basketball and football jocks? Is it rational to take no actions when the average math teacher cannot pass a basic math examination of what they are teaching (where pass = 65/100 points).*

Do the people reading this, who are concerned about inappropriate Mexican teachers union activities and excessive power, have similar concerns about the US system?

*Since US student performance (and teacher performance) rank between 21'st and 27'th in the world, mainly due to teachers who are well-protected by the most powerful pair of unions in the US, is this possibly another case where US expats and visitors to Mexico are judging Mexico by different standards than they apply to their home country?

Fortunately, Finland, Czech Republic, Hungary, and a number of other countries have shown that the quality of education is not rooted in the amount of money spent per pupil, otherwise how could many large-city Mexican school K-12 grads typically cover 1.5 more years of content than their US counterparts. Our daughters found that the slower pace of material covered in US schools left them roughly 1 year behind their Mexican school friends for every 4 years spent in US schools - causing a lot of extra effort, catching-up when returning to Mexico.

There is room for improvement on both sides of the border, but with unions blocking progress on both sides of the border, there has been little change on either side over the past 30 years, except in the growth of teachers unions' power. Ideas on how to turn back the clock on union power or to improve unions and their menbers' performance? The answers could be equally beneficial both North and South of the Border
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jan 13, 2011, 6:40 PM)


mazbook1


Jan 13, 2011, 8:25 PM

Post #11 of 12 (3829 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on

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¡De acuerdo! YucaLandia, however I don't agree that it's ALL the fault of the teachers' unions. A lot of the fault SOB is due to the lack of strict enforcement AND the culture in general, and a lot of the fault NOB is due to the culture and the parents—particularly the prevailing parental attitude that "Johny/Janey can do no wrong," and the rapidly growing "Joe Six-Pack" attitude that education is just for sissies or those with their "heads in the clouds".


YucaLandia


Jan 14, 2011, 7:05 AM

Post #12 of 12 (3803 views)

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Re: [mazbook1] Corruption in eduction {detached from Re: [tonyburton] Required education in MX on

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mazbook1,
Very true. Problems that occur on a nationwide scale for decades rarely have a single cause.

Still, when the Education majors are basically the worst entering university students and worst departing university students for 40 years, and university Education departments are populated with instructors/professors who were also among the worst students in their university years, we sadly have an entrenched system of poor quality Education profs and administrators, who continue to create yet more new generations of mediocre to poor teachers. How can we expect teachers on either side of the border to do an excellent job of teaching students, when those same teachers were and are among the lowest academic performers when they were in school? US students' very low rankings for 3 decades seem to fit the cause and effect between poor performing teachers yielding poor student performance.

That said, (going back to the original topic of this thread), we're still stuck with coming up with effective solutions to solving the Mexican & American problem of how to change powerful entrenched unions of millions of mediocre to poor performing teachers, particularly when the teacher's unions are rated as being the single-most politically powerful groups in America & Mexico, due to: huge treasuries to spend on elections, populated by large blocks of voters who vote at very high percentage rates, and who typically vote the way the Union Bosses advise them. These factors basically make substantive educational reform nearly impossible, which seems to be why US student performance continues to fall, relative to even past US students. Entrenched politicians and teacher's Unions make a formidable combination to block change, where neither group wants to admit past errors and past weaknesses.


Comparing past and present performance, think about how student performance has fallen during the same decades of the information age that has made vast amounts of information more and more available, in easier and more and more palatable and fun ways. Imagine what we could have learned back in the 1950's -1970's if our very good schools and very good teachers had the tools and resources that are available to today's teachers and students.

Returning to the original premise: some of the same things that seem troubling in Mexican schools are not much different from the same entrenched (effectively corrupt) US schools, where powerful unions block reforms and block progress for decades on both sides of the border.

As a former teacher (10 years), and son of 2 teachers, and parent of 2 daughters, I am happy to note that there are bright spots in both NOB and SOB systems, like the NOB International Baccalaureate (IB) program and a large number of high performing public schools in the large cities of Mexico. The problems arise for the vast majorities of typical students, promising young individuals, mired in mediocre systems, with little pressure or support from family or society to excel.

When will the Mexican public and US public accept their responsibility for providing all children good educational opportunities, stop complaining, and instead take actions to fix their schools?

Are we willing to take on the current very powerful political and union bureaucracies?
Or are teachers sacrosanct, hence above reproach?

We can do better, both here and Mexico and in the USA.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jan 14, 2011, 7:21 AM)
 
 
 
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