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TomG

Jun 20, 2004, 9:13 AM

Post #1 of 27 (1707 views)

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Can Americans be actively involved in politics in Mexico?

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"Between Mexico and the United States we need to establish legal mechanisms to permit safe, orderly flows of people that also respect the dignity and human rights of all migrants," he said in a speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations.
"Between Mexico and the United States we need to establish legal mechanisms to permit safe, orderly flows of people that also respect the dignity and human rights of all migrants," he said in a speech to the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/...-mexico-usa-fox.html

Referring to Mexican immigrants crossing north, he goes on:

In Reply To

"This young energy ... is one of the key strategic resources we have in North America.

Characteristically not thinking in full about what Mexico will do in exchange, he continues suggesting what the USA can do to help Mexicans working in the USA. The obverse of this statement I will have to provide for Mexico: old retirees' energy (money) is one of the key strategic resources we have in North American. Therefore, what the heck is Mexico doing, or going to do, to "respect the dignity and human rights of all migrants"?

I know a WWII vet and poet in his 70's who speaks some Spanish, is poor by USA standards, likes Mexican culture, but lives on @$700/month Social Security. He would probably like to live in Mexico but guess what? Mexico would not allow him to immigrate because his monthly income is less than $1500/month (depending on which consulate or which official you happen to being applying through). I can see what the problem is: let this one through and there would be tens of thousands more just like him running for the border. One can see why they've got to hold the standards – draw the line.

Really, on the other side, typically a Mexican without a police record, who can prove to the American consulate than their bank account in Mexico is being fattened by the equivalent of $1500/month would walk out with a legal Visa in a jiffy. So where is the problem? I mean, my poet friend's $700/mo. is twice what the average Mexican household lives on - he's rich! But he can't immigrate. He could consider living in Mexico illegally; but who in Mexico is advocating that? …. Don't hear a peep. Even American FM3 retirees living in Mexico wouldn't want him among them. Who the hell wants on old WWII B-25 tail gunner spouting poetry around…. without more than enough money?

It sounds to me like Mexico's politicians suffer from a lack of creativity - they can't imagine what they themselves can do. Hell, I'd do their imagining for nothing - that is if it wasn't a punishable offense, and I wasn't risking jail time or deportation. I can think of a long list of things they could do, and where Mexico would gain in the doing. i.e. But I'll try to keep my mouth shut, mas o menos.

Anybody that has read my past post can know that I've put in more one-on-one time helping Mexico's paisanos in the USA than any Mexican politician. It’s not my job, it’s all personal with me. Just this morning I was up at 5 AM responding to a call from a distressed woman friend whose husband drove home drunk in his mariachi outfit and hit two cars on the block. The police were respectful and decent (tipically Midwesterners), but they didn't speak Spanish (tipical again). He's one of my best friends. He will not be held in jail until he satisfies all claims against him - that would be interpreted in Mexico as inhuman, as it is here. That is our custom. Life will go on here, and he will be singing very soon. However, this Father's Day fiasco is going to weigh on this brand new father for time to come.

That's all the news fit to talk about from up here south of Lake Woebegon, folks. Hope you all have a pretty nice Father's Day. Oh, and don't take any wooden nickels.

(This post was edited by TomG on Jun 20, 2004, 12:33 PM)

Jun 20, 2004, 10:58 AM

Post #2 of 27 (1678 views)

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Re: [TomG] Can Americans be actively involved in politics in Mexico?

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Quote

TomG writes:
....Really, on the other sied, typically a Mexican without a police record, who can prove to the American consulate than their bank account in Mexico is being fattened by the equivalent of $1500/month would walk out with a legal Visa in a jiffy.....

Unrealistic.

1. As discussed recently in this forum and from personal experience, to obtain a visitor's (temporary visa to enter the US, "substantive ties" (property ownership, job, substantial assets, etc.) encouraging the visitor to return to their home country need to be demonstrated. In the case of Mexican nationals, the undefined substantive ties test criteria appears to be quite high.

2. To obtain a permanent visa to the US, either US employment and thereby income needs to be demonstrated, or parties within the US need to file affidavits of support demonstrating that they have sufficient income, defined as 1.25 times the current poverty line, to prevent the visa holder from becoming a burden on the government. Foreign income isn't considered. I seem to recall that there are provisions for accelerated processing of visa applications and other special treatment if an individual is bringing substantial financial assets into the US at the time of immigration, but this is not income stream.

Bubba

Jun 20, 2004, 11:09 AM

Post #3 of 27 (1671 views)

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Re: [TomG] Can Americans be actively involved in politics in Mexico?

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Tail Gunner Poetry:

I asked to be a mail runner,
They thought I said a tail gunner,
Now here I am just dodging flack,
And simply ask y'all cut some slack.

anon.

TomG. Forgive the bad humor but you and I know that this hypocrisy is woven into the fabric of the relationships between the two North American neighbors
and your question is rhetorical.

May I suggest that your friend comes here on a tourist visa and returns every six months for visa renewal. This does not break the law. A bus to the border is cheap. He can rent here very cheaply and, to the best of our knowledge, there is no secret police lurking about looking for people and demanding their bank statements. John Ashcroft is still a U.S. phenomenon. We met many Zapotecs in Oaxaca who freely cross into California and return home all the time. They take the task very lightly.

Tom, I think you take these formalities too seriously. Living within the U.S. and Mexican gulag takes ingenuity, not rational introspection.

Uncle Jack

Jun 20, 2004, 11:18 AM

Post #4 of 27 (1670 views)

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Not anymore!

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"May I suggest that your friend comes here on a tourist visa and returns every six months for visa renewal"

On a FMT you are allowed a maximum of 180 days in country every year. People have been abusing this law for years as the system was not computerized..........not anymore!

uj

Bubba

Jun 20, 2004, 12:57 PM

Post #5 of 27 (1640 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] Not anymore!

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Didn't know that since it didn't concern me. My brother lived for a number of years in small town Alabama on around $700 a month from social security. Maybe the tailgunner should move there where it is actually cheaper than in the Lake Chapala area or, perhaps, Puerto Rico. Or Yazoo City for that matter. I hear there are towns in Nebraska that will pay you to move there.

jennifer rose

Jun 20, 2004, 3:58 PM

Post #6 of 27 (1614 views)

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Re: [Uncle Jack] Not anymore!

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the Article 33 cops might get you.
Alex

gbatrucks

Jun 21, 2004, 9:26 AM

Post #19 of 27 (1431 views)

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Re: [jennifer rose] Not anymore!

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"...or he could simply recycle money in a bank account to establish the paper trial of deposits in the requisite amount to live in Mexico on an FM-3..."

Can I do that within my IRA? IE: Shuffle in & out of a Vanguard MoneyMarket account set up with IRA funds as an IRA account?

Trucks
"The trouble with life is there's no background music."

jennifer rose

Jun 21, 2004, 9:40 AM

Post #20 of 27 (1424 views)

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Re: [gbatrucks] Not anymore!

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Visitante Rentista.- Cuando el extranjero visitante viva durante su estancia de sus recursos traídos del extranjero, de las rentas que éstos produzcan, de cualquier ingreso proveniente del exterior o de sus inversiones en el país. http://www.inami.gob.mx/paginas/211000.htm

See also http://www.inami.gob.mx/...equisitos/221190.htm, and in particular:

Comprobantes de ingreso mínimo mensual equivalente a doscientos cincuenta veces el salario mínimo general diario vigente en el Distrito Federal.

Bubba

Jun 21, 2004, 11:01 AM

Post #21 of 27 (1407 views)

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Re: [Adrian] Not anymore!

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Actually, Adrian, your wife and mine have a lot in common. The last time we were in the Mexican Consulate in San Francisco applying for a visa for a trip to Mexico (she is a French citizen and this was the 80s) and the feckless bureaucrats got on her nerves, when she finished with them I had to convince them that she was insane in order to get a visa in time to board the plane to Cancun. Then, just recently she let a Mexico City cop know of her disdain when he stopped our California vehicle under false pretenses.

Friends of ours who are Mexican Nationals who moved to the states and were very successful financially there, told us that they are harassed more than foreigners at the border because of resentment against Mexicans who go to the states, are successful and dare to come back. Apparently there is a nickname locals have for those who do this that is not very nice.

Oh, and the discourse with the Mexico City cops went something like this.

"You are driving with the wrong numbered license plate for a Thursday! That will cost you $4,000 Pesos"

"But, officer, today is a national holiday so that rule does not apply, even if it did, that is an outrageous ticket. We demand that you take us to the district police station to discuss this."

"Well, you are right, of course, today is a national holiday and, thus, the police station is closed but you changed lanes back there without signalling and I'm giving you a ticket and I will also need to take your driver's license."

(We had not changed lanes at all since we were lost and creeping along in the slow lane looking for the autopisto north.)

Of course, my wife says, "So take the Godamned license and give us your (Steenkeeng) badge numbers!",

"Now, now, darling, that is my driver's license you are giving away", says I.

"Hell, they don't have the authority to take your license, he's bluffing!" Yes, I know but these two guys are dangerous thugs. This is the infamous DF, not Guadalajara, you know. Our Mexican friends warned us to skirt Mexico City on this journey as would they. But no, we could save time by driving through the city. "

"So, tell me officer, how much is the ticket for failing to signal a lane change?"

"Well, that is only a $2,000 Peso ticket."

"That's outrageous!"

"OK, so how much will you give me?"

(It was late and we needed to get to Queretaro before dark. Also, we were hopelessly lost near the airport.)

" We'll give you $200 pesos."

"$400 pesos and not a centavo less."

"OK, we say, here is the deal. We will pay your multa for $400 Pesos if you will give us an escort to the autopisto to Queretaro."

"That's a deal!"

So, friends, off we took with Mexico City's finest ladrones, sirens blasting and lights blinking furiously, easily passing all other traffic until we reached the autopista north. We pulled into Queretaro at dusk.

Now, lest some of you get sanctimonious about Bubba shelling out the $400
Pesos for an escort out of town, or indignant about corruption in Mexico, let me remind you that Bubba grew up so far back in the piney woods of South Alabama that they had to ship in the kudzu. Here is some free advice. If some deputy sheriff Billy Bob type pulls you over on some lonely county road anywhere in the Deep South of the United States and wants a bribe to allow you to continue your journey, give it to him, move on and thank God you can still breath. Remember, he has a gun.

alex .

Jun 21, 2004, 1:23 PM

Post #22 of 27 (1378 views)

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Re: [Bubba] hoy no circula

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We were escorted to the toll booth at the entrance of the highway to Queretaro as well, w/out lights and siren (as the officer was driving our car). Trouble is I wanted to go to Morelia, not Queretaro. Turns out Queretaro is quite nice as well.
Alex

Georgia

Jun 21, 2004, 4:25 PM

Post #23 of 27 (1345 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Not anymore!

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Ah, Bubba. The same applies up North in Boston. I once had a police escort out of the city under similar circumstances. Except, prior to the escort, my two children spent 1/2 hour in the police cruiser while I tried to persuade a Chinese bank to cash my check for the fine when my car was towed. One kid disabled the police car radio, the other wet all over the passenger seat. They were only too happy to see us leave town.

TomG

Jun 22, 2004, 5:52 AM

Post #24 of 27 (1300 views)

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Re: [Bubba] Not anymore!

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I often wonder if some of the enjoyment of living or visiting Mexico isn't a buzz one gets from skating over danger successfully. One gets to use their wits a lot more navigating daily goings ons - right down to the missing manhole cover.

I don't mean to discount the experiences of regularily chance-meeting interesting folks.

(This post was edited by TomG on Jun 22, 2004, 7:00 AM)

alex .

Jun 22, 2004, 6:39 AM

Post #25 of 27 (1286 views)

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Re: [TomG] boring vacation

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Can you imagine how the story would go if all went as planned?
"How was your trip?"
"Fine."

Isn't it better to say" We got lost and met these nice people who showed us this great restaurant out of the tourist zone and our spare tire got stolen and etc etc."?

Alex

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