Border Conflict

Border Conflict

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I see and hear via CNN that the young lady that lost her husband on the lake in Texas is in discussion with Mexican authorities, who by the way lost their lead investigator, dead, murdered.

Altahabana

Oct 19, 2010, 5:24 AM

Post #2 of 30 (2344 views)

Re: [skier14] Border Conflict

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This article quoting an analyist from an intelligence consulting firm describes what probably happened.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/...spies_104910724.html

Oct 19, 2010, 11:26 AM

Post #3 of 30 (2262 views)

Re: [skier14] Border Conflict

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Whether the "lead investigators" murder was related is questionable (he was the ministerio publico -- which is the "lead investigator" for all federal crimes in that area, not just this particular disappearance ... more the commander of the investigators than the actual investigator) and there are serious doubts about the woman's story. I've been following this in the McAllen Monitor, which has been careful to note that local reaction is incredulity. The woman, who had lived in Reynosa for a couple of years, was refusing to speak to Mexican investigators in Mexico, which complicates legal procedures, and raised questions in several quarters. The whole thing has become highly politicized in south Texas, making it hard for those of us with a morbid interest in the story to sort the facts from the rumors.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

(This post was edited by richmx2 on Oct 19, 2010, 11:27 AM)

Oct 19, 2010, 12:21 PM

Post #4 of 30 (2245 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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What merits incredulity is that this case has nothing to do with the death of the Mexican investigator, who has been handling many cases for years but had assumed investigation of this case just a few days earlier.

There are no serious doubts about this woman's story, only unfounded disbelief of those in denial who have not one shred of evidence to support their disbelief. Lies tend to unravel and truth tends to coalesce over time. Every bit of new evidence has supported her version, not contradicted it. Those who would know best - the local police who took the initial reports and questioned her and worked with her closely - have stated that they belief with certainty that she is honest. The Zapata sheriff has also stated there is additional evidence that he cannot release that supports her.

She has met with Mexican authorities in the U.S. for over 8 hours answering any and all questions. Of course she is refusing to return to Mexico. Any sane person would. Put yourself in her shoes. She is the one applying pressure on reluctant authorities to pursue investigation of this case. If she dies this all goes away. She is ten times the target of the Mexican investigator. If Mexico cannot ensure the security of it's top investigator then she would be a fool to think they can ensure her safety. Why should she put herself both within the jurisdiction of corrupt and uncooperative police and within the reach of ruthless cartels who behead federal investigators?

(This post was edited by Reefhound on Oct 19, 2010, 2:42 PM)

Oct 19, 2010, 1:28 PM

Post #5 of 30 (2224 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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The murdered policeman was the local group leader of the state judicial, or investigative, police. He had actually met and talked with the widow days before his murder.

Hound Dog

Oct 19, 2010, 2:28 PM

Post #6 of 30 (2209 views)

Re: [Reefhound] Border Conflict

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If Mexico cannot ensure the security of it's top investigator then she would be a fool to think they can ensure her safety.

While the Tamaualipas investigator may have been important in his regional outback, I don´t think he could be characterized as Mexico´s "top investigator". Anyone having lived in Mexico for any significant length of time knows that these regional incidents are at best mysterious and subject to interpretations not easily understood by outsiders. I, for one, agree with richmx2 and I remain incredulous. There is clearly more to this than meets the eye so it´s best we avoid conclusions based on ignorance.

Oct 19, 2010, 2:47 PM

Post #7 of 30 (2202 views)

Re: [Hound Dog] Border Conflict

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Ok, fair enough, I didn't really mean THE "top" in the whole country just that he was a major figure in the area. What is odd, and I have searched for all news on this issue, is I've heard nothing much about his death beyond the initial report. So his head was delivered to the army. By whom? And where is the body?

Nobody has reached any conclusions but investigations typically require a working hypothesis and so far all of the EVIDENCE supports her story. Perhaps there is more than meets the eye but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Oct 19, 2010, 4:23 PM

Post #8 of 30 (2165 views)

Re: [Reefhound] Border Conflict

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What EVIDENCE? The lack of evidence -- not to mention a body -- is at the heart of the mystery.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

chinagringo

Oct 19, 2010, 4:30 PM

Post #9 of 30 (2161 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...on-texas-border.html
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...tor-decapitated.html
http://www.borderlandbeat.com/...amed-on-blunder.html

Three articles above in chronological order and in English. Naturally, the wife cannot be suspected of any complicity since she is from Texas and the United States. Just saying.
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Oct 19, 2010, 4:34 PM

Post #10 of 30 (2158 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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In Reply To

What EVIDENCE? The lack of evidence -- not to mention a body -- is at the heart of the mystery.

Why would anyone expect the murderers to obligingly make the body or jet ski available in this situation?

Oct 19, 2010, 5:32 PM

Post #11 of 30 (2139 views)

Re: [chinagringo] Border Conflict

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What's your point, Neil? Was there supposed to be something in those links that support the idea she is complicit in something? Or dperhaps somewhere along the way South Texas adopted Mexico's napoleonic code of justice?

Oct 19, 2010, 5:36 PM

Post #12 of 30 (2137 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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How does the lack of evidence support allegations that the wife is complicit in something.

Evidence available

DPS videotape of them being pulled over that morning near the car, both of them in the car, asked where they were going, they answered a day on the lake on their jet skis. Consistent with her timeline of when they got to the lake and what they planned to do.

Witness reported seeing her speeding towards the U.S. side of the lake with boats behind her. Supports her version that there were other boats involved and that she was chased.

Blood on her life vest. Supports that at least some injury was sustained. I've not heard if it DNA matches her husband.

It's not a lot. Nobody ever said it was, but what evidence there is all supports her story.

Oct 19, 2010, 10:06 PM

Post #13 of 30 (2092 views)

Re: [norteño] Border Conflict

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That's not the point. Absent a body, this is still just a missing persons case. And, until a formal denunciacion was entered, there wasn't anything Mexican (or U.S. authorities) could do. Which makes it seem odd to many that the alleged widow was on television making political statements and not talking to the investigators.

There could very well be a murder, and probably was. But all I said was that the case was controversial and lack of evidence was a factor in that controversy. Everything else is speculative.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Altahabana

Oct 20, 2010, 5:11 AM

Post #14 of 30 (2078 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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In Reply To

What EVIDENCE? The lack of evidence -- not to mention a body -- is at the heart of the mystery.

Rich. Do you know the meaning of the colloquial expression the Zetas in Tamaulipas use . . . "Ir al tambo." The only incredulity most people around here have about the incident is that someone would be so reckless to venture off into this area. Only special units of the Mexican army and marines do it.

Oct 20, 2010, 5:51 AM

Post #15 of 30 (2071 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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"And, until a formal denunciacion was entered, there wasn't anything Mexican (or U.S. authorities) could do. Which makes it seem odd to many that the alleged widow was on television making political statements and not talking to the investigators. "

That's disingenuous on your part because she has been talking to investigators and I even gave you the link to verify it. So either you didn't bother to read the link and be informed or you are being dishonest.

She has probably logged dozens of hours talking to various investigators. And she has already made one trip back to Mexico where she met with the investigator whose head was chopped off. So any "denunciations" or other actions that needed to occur on Mexican soil was likely done then.

Oct 20, 2010, 7:12 AM

Post #16 of 30 (2043 views)

Re: [Reefhound] Border Conflict

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What is odd, and I have searched for all news on this issue, is I've heard nothing much about his death beyond the initial report. So his head was delivered to the army. By whom? And where is the body?
The only reason the investigator's murder was reported at all is because his head was delivered to the army, which issued a press release. The press in that part of Tamaulipas does not report on cartel violence. I don't believe any newspaper there has yet said a word about either the Falcon Lake incident or the beheading of the investigator.

Oct 20, 2010, 11:08 AM

Post #17 of 30 (1994 views)

Re: [Reefhound] Border Conflict

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"She has probably logged dozens of hours talking to various investigators."

In other words, neither you nor I are in command of the facts. What is known is that she was talking to the media (specifically "Fox and Friends" on U.S. television) BEFORE there was a police report filed with the Mexican authorities.

The assumptions and political spin on this is probably much more interesting than the facts.

http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com

Oct 20, 2010, 11:43 AM

Post #18 of 30 (1980 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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In Reply To

I don't understand why you are obsessed with the idea that the Mexican authorities were not promptly informed of this incident. The Zapata County Sheriff was quoted and interviewed that same day saying he had relayed the report to Mexican law enforcement and was working with them to try to locate the body, for example in the video at this link:

http://www.krgv.com/...UYUOqk-Y_zQQnFA.cspx

(This post was edited by Rolly on Oct 20, 2010, 11:54 AM)

Oct 20, 2010, 11:46 AM

Post #19 of 30 (1979 views)

Re: [richmx2] Border Conflict

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She has probably logged dozens of hours talking to various investigators."

In other words, neither you nor I are in command of the facts. What is known is that she was talking to the media (specifically "Fox and Friends" on U.S. television) BEFORE there was a police report filed with the Mexican authorities.

I use "probably" merely because I cannot provide an exact number. I provided a reference verifying she logged at least 8 hours with Mexican investigators this week. She would have logged several hours making the initial reports. She was in contact with Zapata police daily for awhile, she went out on the lake escorted with them, she made one visit to Mexico to meet police officials.

Not true about talking to the media before the police. She contacted Zapata police who in turn immediately contacted Mexican counterparts. They were handling the coordination of the various agencies since they know all the numbers and contacts. Mexican police had her name, number, and other details within hours of her landing. She went to the media because they never bothered to call her and had nothing to say when she called them. Besides, if your loved one is missing you would want as much media attention as possible. Beats the alternative of no one bothering to look.

Edited by Rolly to remove a personal attack.

(This post was edited by Rolly on Oct 20, 2010, 11:57 AM)

chinagringo

Oct 21, 2010, 10:22 AM

Post #20 of 30 (1840 views)

Re: [skier14] Border Conflict

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For those discussing this incident, you might find the following to be interesting:

http://www.stratfor.com/...4efc89311458d54d0acf

Not saying that this is an unimpeachable source but just an alternative source upon which one can formulate opinions!
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

(This post was edited by chinagringo on Oct 21, 2010, 10:25 AM)

Oct 21, 2010, 10:59 AM

Post #21 of 30 (1830 views)

Re: [chinagringo] Border Conflict

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Interestingly enough, I posted a very similar hypothesis on some other forums before that came out. People doubted the zetas did it because it wouldn't have been in their best interests and my point was that sometimes cartel members make mistakes and do things that are not in their best interests.

If this is essentially what happened, then while the case will never be formally resolved and no "legal justice" will be served, it could actually help make things safer for innocents. A clear message has been sent, not only for Americans to stay away from cartel country, but also for cartel members to be careful about harming those who do not. Not that they will ever offer a free ride or be deterred from acting against someone too nosy but perhaps they will be a little more careful.

The one part of this theory that doesn't make sense, and it may be a case of cartel leaders not understanding the American psyche very well, is that if they really don't want this kind of media and political pressure then destroying the body is the worst possible thing to do. I think the Zapata sheriff even said just a few days afterwards "all we want is the body, produce the body and this all goes away". Americans need closure, they need to recover and identify bodies. Look at 9/11 and how they sifted through the rubble for months gathering ashes to DNA test to identify every victim. Look at how they will search fields at armlength, drag lakes and rivers, even drain ponds, to search for missing persons. Lacy Peters, Chandra Levy, and on and on. Americans are not content to write someone off as dead and move on. Not until after the body is recovered.

(This post was edited by Reefhound on Oct 21, 2010, 11:00 AM)

skier14

Oct 25, 2010, 10:04 AM

Post #22 of 30 (1526 views)

Re: [Reefhound] Border Conflict

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Another drug rehab shoot. This time TJ. Reportedly 10-13 dead.

Brian

Oct 25, 2010, 1:13 PM

Post #23 of 30 (1482 views)

Re: [skier14] Border Conflict

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" I think that the United States needs to pay more attention to Tijuana. Now!"

That was the definitive line uttered by the good cop in the 2002 movie Traffic. Ms. Hartley is imploring Obama to take the border issues more seriously than he has to date. The past two years have been especially brutal. Unfortunately, the way things are, some similar massacre would have to happen in National City or Chula Vista, CA. Anyone who understands the dynamics about that part of the border knows that the possibility is not far-fetched.

chinagringo

Oct 25, 2010, 2:23 PM

Post #24 of 30 (1454 views)

Re: [Brian] Border Conflict

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Why Tijuana when they have been ignoring Juarez for so long? According to the M3 REPORT:
"For the first time, the US government began the deployment of “intelligence advisors” in the border city of Juarez, Chihuahua. Also, Pentagon funds will be sought to assist the Mexican government in its effort to stop the violence in the city. [Ed. note: We were unable to confirm this story from other sources. Readers' comments were typically adamantly against any US meddling in Mexican affairs.]"

Their source for this story:
http://www.elimparcial.com/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Nacional/22102010/475060.aspx

I had been under the possible misconception that the DEA has had agents in Mexico for numerous years but then again, what are we told?
Regards,
Neil
Albuquerque, NM

Oct 25, 2010, 3:02 PM

Post #25 of 30 (1443 views)