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La Isla


Jul 6, 2011, 8:20 AM

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Better Lives for Mexicans Cut Allure of Going North

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This morning an optimistic article about Mexico appeared in the New York Times:


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/06/world/americas/immigration.html?ref=global-home


Comments, anyone?


(This post was edited by tonyburton on Jul 6, 2011, 8:42 AM)



Tomas_en_Mexico

Jul 7, 2011, 6:42 AM

Post #2 of 8 (1892 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Better Lives for Mexicans Cut Allure of Going North

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This is an encouraging, fact-based article about Mexico chock-full of statistics AND representative anecdotes that everyone should read.

Without going into the reasons, the jist is that emigration from Mexico to the USA has slowed, but illegal immigration has slowed dramatically (in fact, it is net negative).

Also, there is a some quite revealing information about recent changes in American policy toward legal immigration and visitation from Mexico to the USA: the USA has gotten much more lenient with respect to certain kinds of work visas, tourist visas for Mexicans, and (legal) forgiveness for previous illegal crossings.

The most encouraging aspect is more educational achievement in Mexico. The number of Mexicans with a Bachelor's Degree or better in Jalisco and Oaxaca has more than doubled in the last 10 years and more and more of those educated Mexicans want to stay put instead of going abroad.

There is so much in this article that I am resisting excerpting it here, please read it.

Tomás


jrpierce


Jul 7, 2011, 7:33 AM

Post #3 of 8 (1881 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Better Lives for Mexicans Cut Allure of Going North

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A very interesting article for a few reasons. First, it is an article in the US mainstream media that hardly mentions the cartel battles. Second, it speaks to the improving economy of Mexico, something lost on many in the US. Third, it reveals some fascinating data I hadn't seen before, especially the information on the declining birth rate in Mexico. Fourth, it comes at the whole immigration issue from a great place--that the problem is to a large degree solving itself.

While everything they discuss is seems true, I think it paints a bit too rosy a picture.

I speak with young Mexican men here in Morelia who have worked in the US, who returned because they were deported or because the jobs ran out, and who are now barely supporting themselves driving taxis or waiting tables. They would LOVE to go back to the US for better work once the jobs return, however they feel the trip has become too expensive and too dangerous.

The whole story about the US streamlining and liberalizing the visa process for Mexicans to visit the US certainly SOUNDS encouraging, and is something I endorse wholeheartedly. However, I sure haven't seen any signs of it. Just yesterday, I heard the latest story about people who tried to get a visa to visit the US and gave up in disgust.

Let me not be misunderstood--I am very impressed with Mexico's progress on so many fronts. I just think we have farther to go than this article suggests.

Jim


richmx2


Jul 7, 2011, 8:30 AM

Post #4 of 8 (1861 views)

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Re: [jrpierce] Better Lives for Mexicans Cut Allure of Going North

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The other point made in the NYTimes article, and one that seems to have been overlooked, is the declining Mexican birth rate... while there aren't enough jobs for everyone by any means, yet, smaller families means less pressure on younger adults to go abroad to support large extended families.

Liberalized U.S. immigration would have a secondary effect as well in returning to the old "mojado" system by which young adults (overwhelmingly young men) went to the U.S. to work only for a few years to save some money and then returned... sort of like doing military service, only it was family service. Sometimes, various members of the same extended family would provide a worker for a company or farm in the U.S., the individual changing every couple of years, but working to the advantage of both the worker's extended family and to the U.S. employer.

The stricter immigration laws in the U.S. had the unintended effect of meaning a Mexican worker couldn't easily "commute" to fulfill family obligations, and had to send for the family in order to meet their needs... meaning not just workers, but workers and their dependents had to move north.


http://mexfiles.net
http://voiceofmexico.com
http://editorialmazatlan.com


tonyburton


Jul 7, 2011, 12:32 PM

Post #5 of 8 (1816 views)

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Re: [richmx2] Better Lives for Mexicans Cut Allure of Going North

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One small correction. It is the fertility rate that has declined significantly, NOT the birth rate (though that has continued to decline, albeit slowly) - one of the graphics in the NYT articles incorrectly uses "birthrate" for figures that are (correctly quoted in the article itself) "fertility rate".
[and if anyone is still unclear what the difference is, there's always Geo-Mexico, the geography and dynamics of modern Mexico to help you out!

Tony


Casa

Jul 7, 2011, 11:52 PM

Post #6 of 8 (1752 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Better Lives for Mexicans Cut Allure of Going North

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Interesting article and I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade….

But I thought the levels of extreme poverty were increasing in Mexico. In fact according to El Economista and the CONEVAL extreme poverty in Mexico grew by 62% from 13.8 million people in 2006 to an estimated 22.3 billion people in 2010. (The final results will be available at the end of this month) (UNICEF says there are 20 Million Children in extreme poverty in Mexico)

The International Monetary Fund has stated that the current rate of economic growth will not resolve Mexico’s poverty. Mexico also lacks mechanisms for a distribution of wealth thus social mobility is prevented.

And although the picture of the girls in their school uniforms was pretty there was no mention of the more than 7 million NINIs (NI trabajan, NI Estudian) between the ages of 14 and 29, Or the half million girls between the ages of 15 and 19 with one or 2 children of their own…….. or that due to discrimination and unequal opportunities only 2% of Mexico’s indigenous population get to university.

Or the fact that just last month the SEP declared “repatriación de talentos fracasó (repatriation of talent failed)………… Due to lack of gainful employment opportunities, 5 million Mexicans with above national average education decided to leave for the United States, that represents a loss, an enormous drain”

Or that there is an estimated 70% increase in human rights complaints against the military for 2010 and the first half of 2011.

I have not been to the US in a long time so maybe this is better…….I do not know. I read an interesting article that I cannot find now that basically said:

Mexico did not get better, the US got worse…..


YucaLandia


Jul 8, 2011, 1:00 AM

Post #7 of 8 (1749 views)

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Re: [La Isla] Better Lives for Mexicans Cut Allure of Going North

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What a fun discussion !

Mexico is ______. Mexican's are ________. Mexico used to be ________. Mexico should be ______.

Is it possible that Mexico is so diverse that one can point to significant exceptions and contradictions to any and all generalizations about Mexico and Mexicans?

The fertility rate differences are significant, especially when contrasting rural vs urban areas here in the Sureste. Yucatan's fertility rates have been the highest in Mexico since at least 1970 (4.3 kids per woman), and that had fallen to just 3.9 kids/mujer by 2000, but there are big disparities between women in the countryside and pueblos vs the 400,000 women in Merida. Lots of 1 or 2 child families in the city vs 6 - 10 child families in the country. Still, Yucatan's population doubled between 1970 and 2000 as our henequin industry was seriously declining, causing lots of people of Mayan heritage to move from the countryside, doubling Merida's and Cancun's populations. Even though commerce has grown dramatically in Merida and standards of living are much higher than in the past, our 18-30 yr olds are seriously under-employed.

The 2% figure for indigenous University enrollment also does not fit our burgeoning university student population here. A simple survey of the % of brown faces at my wife's university (UADY) and at my sister-in-law's university, and close friends' other universities show at least 60% (if not 80%) of our university students would be officially considered Natives by US standards. Maybe El Universal goes by some 87% or higher blood quantum (nonsense) standard to qualify someone as "indigenous" ( indigenous = 7 "full blood" Native great-grandparents?) to get their 2% indigenous population estimate? El Universal's charges of serious discrimination and racism against "indigenous" students just don't seem to hold water based on the student bodies of Yucatan's universities. What do expats see in other areas? All white and only white students?

Maybe each person's perspective on Mexico is more a reflection of that individual's world-views, than they are broad truths about what "Mexico" and "Mexicans" are. Or maybe 30% of any group is a significantly large number?

If 70% are thriving or doing ok, and 30% are living week-to-week, is it a healthy society or a society doing poorly?

2/3 of American families were renters before 1950, living week to week on the their paychecks, and the Universities were basically closed to blue-collar families, but would people consider the USA of that era as backwards and poor? Did the 30% of Americans who owned property mean that America was an affluent nation?

Over 95% of Mexicans (in homes) actually own their homes vs the US, where most people's homes are owned by the banks (having a $100K - $500K mortgage means you don't actually own the home). Which is more healthy, a society where the average adult carries $9,000 dollars of unpaid monthly credit card debt at 14% interest and who don't own the cars they drive, or is a cash-and-carry society where people actually own their cars, their homes, have no personal debts, but don't "own" as much stuff - better?

Is it better to have a government that has big cash reserves and whose bonds are ranked in the top 5 in the world - with 30% of its populace living week-to-week, or is it better to have a government with near 100% debt/GDP and nearly $15 trillion in obligations that it will likely never pay back, and a populace who has the biggest personal debt levels in the world?

Both of our daughters live and work in the USA, while we live and work here, so, we see opportunities on both sides of the border. We know lots of locals who have returned to Yucatan in the past 3 years, after working for years in the USA, along with lots of people who stayed here doing what-ever work they can to find work. Things don't have to be dyadic (Rich/Poor, Black/White, Pretty/Ugly, Fat/Thin). Reality is often paradoxical, and the Mexico we know is marvelously diverse.
-
Read-on MacDuff
E-visit at http://yucalandia.wordpress.com/

(This post was edited by YucaLandia on Jul 8, 2011, 1:16 AM)


jrpierce


Jul 8, 2011, 8:55 AM

Post #8 of 8 (1691 views)

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Re: [YucaLandia] Better Lives for Mexicans Cut Allure of Going North

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What a fun discussion !


I'll say! You and Casa seem to have a real grasp of these issues. I'm planning to sit back and take notes!

Jim
 
 
 
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